How Do I Know He Won't Eat That Dog?

[Guest Clawsandpaws]

Since I have adopted Dudley he has shown NO prey drive, a squirrel could run on top of him and he would shake it off. Doesn't mind ducks, cats, anything. He has been around small dogs with no issues or signs of "arousal" don't really know an appropriate word.

 

The smallest dog he has met has been a "tea cup" yorkie who was probably about 4 lbs, in the large dog park of course, Dudley had a muzzled leashed intro and had no interest in the dog. Last night while walking home, a woman crossed our path with the smallest puppy I have ever seen, about the size of a squirrel or your two small lady fists put together. Dudley was overly interested in meeting this dog, pulling very hard at the leash, panting with ears up. I went around them off the path and the whole time he was pulling to get to the dog (I assume, he could have been going to greet the woman, but I have never seen such excitement to meet a person) I could not get him to focus on me at all, but I didn't have any treats on me either.

 

I found out that the woman is my neighbor... and walks her dog almost every hour, so I know I will see the pup again... I don't want to muzzle him on walks... Do I just bring treats with me and if I see the pup I distract him?

[greytpups]

Giselle has posted a "look at me" link to a video where she teaches a dog using treats to focus on her and not focus on the dog walking by. It sounds like it may be helpful in this situation. The trick is to get Dudley to focus on you before his behaviour escalates which is demonstrated really well in the video.

[Guest Clawsandpaws]

Giselle has posted a "look at me" link to a video where she teaches a dog using treats to focus on her and not focus on the dog walking by. It sounds like it may be helpful in this situation. The trick is to get Dudley to focus on you before his behaviour escalates which is demonstrated really well in the video.

I'm going to look at it. I just don't understand how this puppy could have perked his interest, he is afraid of rabbits!!

[Xan]

I've used this same technique (well, a very slight variation, but same concept) with great success on my hot-headed boy, Pogo. It takes time and patience proportional to the problem behavior, but it does work. Biggest tip: try to stay just beyond the real trouble zone, where you can't control his behavior. That zone will get closer and closer to the trigger, as you progress.

 

Good luck!!

[greytpups]

 

 

We often think of small dogs as harmless, yet that is such a myth. For example, if a dog jumps up on another dog, this display is aggressive behaviour. If someone's gsd jumped on my grey, I'd be out of there in an instant. Have you noticed how many owners of small dogs allow their little fluffy to do this continuously? If this happens, I always correct the small dog, even though it's not my own dog, and try to educate the owner. Have you ever seen small dogs on a leash lunging and pulling? Once again, this behaviour is unacceptable in larger dogs, while small dogs seem to get a pass.

 

I suspect the small dog's behaviour may have triggered something in Dudley, just because of my experience with small dogs and their owner's lack of knowledge about dog behaviour. I'm speaking in generalities, I know there are many owners on GT with small dogs who don't act like this, just trying to keep this on topic.

eta: sorry about the weird quotes

Edited April 2, 2013 by greytpups

[Guest Clawsandpaws]

We often think of small dogs as harmless, yet that is such a myth. For example, if a dog jumps up on another dog, this display is aggressive behaviour. If someone's gsd jumped on my grey, I'd be out of there in an instant. Have you noticed how many owners of small dogs allow their little fluffy to do this continuously. If this happens, I always correct the small dog, even if it's not my own, and try to educate the owner. Have you ever seen small dogs on a leash lunging and pulling. Once again, this behaviour is unacceptable in older dogs, while small dogs seem to get a pass.

 

I suspect something in the small dog's behaviour may have triggered something in Dudley, just because of my experience with small dogs and their owner's lack of knowledge about dog behaviour. I'm speaking in generalities, I know there are many owners on GT with small dogs who don't act like this, just trying to keep this on topic

What confused me, was that the little dog did not notice Dudley, he was just walking his merry little way.

[greytpups]

hhhhhhmmmmmmm...that is odd...unless something happened prior to this meeting. Hopefully the video will help.

[Guest Clawsandpaws]

hhhhhhmmmmmmm...that is odd...unless something happened prior to this meeting. Hopefully the video will help.

I watched it, going to keep treats in my pocket for walks... I hope the lady doesn't think I'm too crazy.

He has never seen the puppy before, they just bought him a few days prior

[Xan]

I was thinking the same thing as greytpups. Maybe it's because your pup smelled the puppy, recognized him as a neighbor he hadn't seen before, and was highly motivated to check him out, determine personality and boundaries?

[Guest Clawsandpaws]

I was thinking the same thing as greytpups. Maybe it's because your pup smelled the puppy, recognized him as a neighbor he hadn't seen before, and was highly motivated to check him out, determine personality and boundaries?

That could be a possibility, but he has never really been that focused on greeting a dog, it's usually a "oh hey, nice to meet you, may I sniff your butt?" and move on.. I am scared to let him get close to the pup

[Xan]

Err on the cautious side, for sure! Better to always wonder than to find out the hard way, eh?

[Guest Clawsandpaws]

Err on the cautious side, for sure! Better to always wonder than to find out the hard way, eh?

I agree. It just has me dumbfounded.

[greytpups]

I watched it, going to keep treats in my pocket for walks... I hope the lady doesn't think I'm too crazy.

He has never seen the puppy before, they just bought him a few days prior

Remember the treats before the behaviour escalates so you are not rewarding Dudley for unwanted behaviour. Practice at home in a safe environment.

[Guest Clawsandpaws]

Remember the treats before the behaviour escalates so you are not rewarding Dudley for unwanted behaviour. Practice at home in a safe environment.

Yes, thank you We are kind of going backwards in training, as I never did "look at me" before sit/down/paw etc. I am going to borrow another neighbor and their pointer puppy who Dudley likes, and can be distracted by.

[NeylasMom]

Hey may, once he can get close enough ot give the dog a good sniff, realize it's just another dog and get over it. But probably best not to test out that theory until you can work with him a bit on responding to you for treats so you know you can distract him even if he's aroused. Once you have that, then you could ask the neighbor to let the dogs meet with him muzzled and see what happens.I suspect he just doesn't know what the heck it is. Violet gets really aroused when she sees new dogs (especially little white fluffies), but once we actually get to meet them, she's either so over it or afraid of them. She does like to play with other dogs in the park, she's just a bit socially awkward.

[greytdogsks]

I really don't have any advice or ... whatever, just going to ask a couple of questions to compare to the way one of my girls reacts at different times...

 

First--- has he always only met unknown little dogs while wearing a muzzle before? You said he met the teacup yorkie while wearing a muzzle .... (this is just a curiosity question)...

 

Second -- and I think I saw the answer in another of your replies, but I'm going to ask to be sure ---- was this puppy last night on the ground walking or being carried?

 

This one I ask because .... I had my girls at an event. Someone was there with an Italian greyhound and a little white poodle (I think it was a toy, but can't remember for sure). While one of my girls was sorta curious about them, she wasn't OVERLY curious or excited to get to them until the owner picked the poodle up --- then she wanted it. She did this to me when I first got her and was introducing her to my then cats ... when I picked the cat up ... she lunged, prior to that, only mild curiosity. My GUESS is that when the poodle (and the cat) was picked up, she maybe thought it was a toy or something so she wanted it --- sometimes when I pick up her toys she tends to lunge for them.

 

Whatever the 'reason' for more curiosity ... others with much more knowledge have given what sounds like good advice.. always better to be safe than sorry !

[greytpups]

another good video http://smg.photobucket.com/user/LSophie/media/Videos/LAT_walks.mp4.html

[Guest Clawsandpaws]

I really don't have any advice or ... whatever, just going to ask a couple of questions to compare to the way one of my girls reacts at different times...

 

First--- has he always only met unknown little dogs while wearing a muzzle before? You said he met the teacup yorkie while wearing a muzzle .... (this is just a curiosity question)...

 

Second -- and I think I saw the answer in another of your replies, but I'm going to ask to be sure ---- was this puppy last night on the ground walking or being carried?

 

This one I ask because .... I had my girls at an event. Someone was there with an Italian greyhound and a little white poodle (I think it was a toy, but can't remember for sure). While one of my girls was sorta curious about them, she wasn't OVERLY curious or excited to get to them until the owner picked the poodle up --- then she wanted it. She did this to me when I first got her and was introducing her to my then cats ... when I picked the cat up ... she lunged, prior to that, only mild curiosity. My GUESS is that when the poodle (and the cat) was picked up, she maybe thought it was a toy or something so she wanted it --- sometimes when I pick up her toys she tends to lunge for them.

 

Whatever the 'reason' for more curiosity ... others with much more knowledge have given what sounds like good advice.. always better to be safe than sorry !

1) No, but when I first started going to the park, I kept a muzzle on hand so that if a little dog entered I would leash and muzzle him and let him greet the dog (with the other owners permission) until I realized that he doesn't give a hoot about small dogs. I never use the muzzle anymore, except to practice with at home (I want him to stay used to it)

2) The dog was being walked, slow pace, not yelping or running around, very calm but itsy bitsy puppy

 

Dudley only cares about carried dogs if he hasn't greeted them yet, but he has never shown a very focused interest like in this situation he just doesn't understand why he can't sniff their butt 5 feet off the ground... Very puzzling!!

 

Hey may, once he can get close enough ot give the dog a good sniff, realize it's just another dog and get over it. But probably best not to test out that theory until you can work with him a bit on responding to you for treats so you know you can distract him even if he's aroused. Once you have that, then you could ask the neighbor to let the dogs meet with him muzzled and see what happens.I suspect he just doesn't know what the heck it is. Violet gets really aroused when she sees new dogs (especially little white fluffies), but once we actually get to meet them, she's either so over it or afraid of them. She does like to play with other dogs in the park, she's just a bit socially awkward.

That's what I'm hoping, but I have never seen him react like that before and it made me very nervous!! He was trying to get to the puppy like it was the last peep on earth!! I don't really know this neighbor, and I am 99% sure she only speaks Portuguese

[a_daerr]

Neither of my guys is high prey. They are fine with little dogs and cats, even my one cat who goes outside. They ignore rabbits and other wild animals that we encounter on walks. But to my absolute horror, they caught a squirrel in the backyard a few months ago. It was like they were playing with one of their stuffies- throwing it up in the air and shaking it. I couldn't believe that either of them would do that (naive on my part, I know). But I guess my point is this. Even low prey greyhounds can get overly excited (in a non-playful way) given the right situation. It sounds like you have a good game plan, just be careful.

[3greytjoys]

The behavior you described is usually focused prey drive in a Greyhound. Hard to know the exact "lures" with which Dudley was trained in early schooling and racing. May have been small furry brown or white lures/creatures. Sounds like the puppy may have sparked Dudley's natural prey instinct.

 

When we do cat and small animal testing of recent retirees, we watch hounds' focus very carefully. Long testing process short... If the hound is so intensely focused on the animal that hound doesn't break focus to pay attention to a human's call/correction, the hound is deemed not small animal friendly. Even low prey Greyhounds who initially test small animal friendly are never considered small animal friendly in an outside environment. Example: Many Greyhounds can live fine with small animals inside a family home, but same dog looks at same animal outside as prey. Outside = game on. Magnified greatly if small animal moves (walks/runs) when outside.

 

As another poster mentioned, be careful with Dudley if a human picks up a small animal. Dogs' natural instinct is to jump up to snatch or nip small animal above his/her own head level, even when picked up by an adult human.

 

To answer your question, you may not ever "know he won't eat that dog". It is good to learn what prey drive looks like in hounds.

 

Here's a short list of canine language seen in a "prey" driven dog while leashed:

Intense focus on animal. (Dog shows tunnel vision for smaller animal, usually ignoring all other external stimuli including humans. If dog does look away briefly, dog may still be watching prey in his/her periferial vision.)

Fully alert body, and ears. (Alert ear position is individual to each Greyhound.)

Possible stiffening of body, trembling, or lunging towards (prey) animal.

Often silent while staring at prey, or barking or whining (often vocalizes in frustration from being held back on leash).

May hold mouth closed tightly, lick lips often and quickly, salivate, and/or pant heavily.

Tail is tense, or a tense wag. (Not a relaxed, low positioned, casual, friendly wag.)

 

Great to teach Dudley "watch me" exercises, and practice often to help him ignore small critters passing by. Eventually, if you decide to work with Dudley (muzzled and leashed) near a small dog, a neutral, indoor, controlled environment would be desired. Whenever Dudley is meeting/sniffing a smaller dog, arc around and ensure the small dog's butt is positioned towards Dudley to smell. (Dogs often capture prey by the neck.) Please use your good judgement, and don't push any animal introductions if you think Dudley's prey drive is too high for a specific animal, even if he has been fine with similar animals. Each animal may be viewed differently. BTW, besides the tiny size, what does the puppy look like (color, fur length)?

 

FWIW, when out hiking or walking, I recommend not stopping to stare excessively at wild animals. It usually heightens a sighthound's prey instinct.

Edited April 3, 2013 by 3greytjoys

[DocsDoctor]

I'm going to look at it. I just don't understand how this puppy could have perked his interest, he is afraid of rabbits!!

The way the puppy was moving, most probably - they tend to squirm about a lot, compared to adult dogs, which does make them look like prey objects. So be cautious!

[Guest Clawsandpaws]

The behavior you described is usually focused prey drive in a Greyhound. Hard to know the exact "lures" with which Dudley was trained in early schooling and racing. May have been small furry brown or white lures/creatures. Sounds like the puppy may have sparked Dudley's natural prey instinct.

 

When we do cat and small animal testing of recent retirees, we watch hounds' focus very carefully. Long testing process short... If the hound is so intensely focused on the animal that hound doesn't break focus to pay attention to a human's call/correction, the hound is deemed not small animal friendly. Even low prey Greyhounds who initially test small animal friendly are never considered small animal friendly in an outside environment. Example: Many Greyhounds can live fine with small animals inside a family home, but same dog looks at same animal outside as prey. Outside = game on. Magnified greatly if small animal moves (walks/runs) when outside.

 

As another poster mentioned, be careful with Dudley if a human picks up a small animal. Dogs' natural instinct is to jump up to snatch or nip small animal above his/her own head level, even when picked up by an adult human.

 

To answer your question, you may not ever "know he won't eat that dog". It is good to learn what prey drive looks like in hounds.

 

Here's a short list of canine language seen in a "prey" driven dog while leashed:

Intense focus on animal. (Dog shows tunnel vision for smaller animal, usually ignoring all other external stimuli including humans. If dog does look away briefly, dog may still be watching prey in his/her periferial vision.)

Fully alert body, and ears. (Alert ear position is individual to each Greyhound.)

Possible stiffening of body, trembling, or lunging towards (prey) animal.

Often silent while staring at prey, or barking or whining (often vocalizes in frustration from being held back on leash).

May hold mouth closed tightly, lick lips often and quickly, salivate, and/or pant heavily.

Tail is tense, or a tense wag. (Not a relaxed, low positioned, casual, friendly wag.)

 

Great to teach Dudley "watch me" exercises, and practice often to help him ignore small critters passing by. Eventually, if you decide to work with Dudley (muzzled and leashed) near a small dog, a neutral, indoor, controlled environment would be desired. Whenever Dudley is meeting/sniffing a smaller dog, arc around and ensure the small dog's butt is positioned towards Dudley to smell. (Dogs often capture prey by the neck.) Please use your good judgement, and don't push any animal introductions if you think Dudley's prey drive is too high for a specific animal, even if he has been fine with similar animals. Each animal may be viewed differently. BTW, besides the tiny size, what does the puppy look like (color, fur length)?

 

FWIW, when out hiking or walking, I recommend not stopping to stare excessively at wild animals. It usually heightens a sighthound's prey instinct.

Thank you for all that, the pup seemed to be a dark brown/black (it was at night) with short curly is fur...Now that he has had his tail amp, it's hard for me to tell if it's tense! It always seems to be sticking straight out (not up or down) while out of the house...He was definitely alert, and definitely panting. So I guess it was good that we steered clear! It just caught me by surprise, he has literally never shown anything beyond a curious/friendly interest in every animal he has seen/met. Even the ducks we pass by on walks, he doesn't even glance at them!

[GeorgeofNE]

I would personally call to the owner of the pup and ask her to please keep her distance.

 

If you are walking on leashes, both of you, it shouldn't be an issue but I would keep away from a puppy that small regardless. It's SO easy to hurt a tiny puppy and you know even if it isn't your fault you'll be blamed.

[fsugrad]

This thread reminds me of this video shown recently on Jimmy Kimmel. Mastiff and chihuahua. Before anyone freaks out, the video was EDITED and it was a JOKE, the chihuahua was NOT harmed!

 

http://twitpic.com/8v4ne8

[3greytjoys]

Our hounds are cat friendly inside our home; however, breed typical, none are small animal friendly outside. We find it safest to avoid all small animals outside by pulling far enough off sidewalks to let others pass. Of course, accidents can happen: One evening, fortunately only walking one hound (on new street to us), hound stopped to do business. A very bold cat surprised us by approaching from behind. Hound saw cat first, near hound's back thigh, and grabbed in one second flat! Fortunately, I was able to get him to drop the cat before the cat was harmed. Over the years, we've avoided walking by 3 houses known to have overly bold cats. One cat guards/chases away all dog intruders from his entire cul-de-sac! Even our hounds are scared of THAT crazed cat! Lol...

Another time, we were enjoying lunch at a dog friendly restaurant (patio). A fledgling fell from a nest above our table, just inches from our (red) hound's face! She scooped it up in one second flat, as if it were a gift dropped from the heavens! I think the bird was saved in time too.

I would completely avoid that puppy. Dudley *might* view the puppy differently after he/she has grown up, but not worth the risk now.

Reiteration for other readers: My previous list of prey driven hound signs are usually seen ONLY if hound is leashed. A Greyhound outside in an off leash enclosure like a mixed breed dog park is too fast and precise a hunter for many humans to notice any early signs of "prey" behavior. Often a hound appears fine running along ("playing") with a medium/smaller size dog, but to a retired racer / sight hunter breed, running excitement can quickly heighten to "prey" instinct.