Ace's Breathing

[Guest gurehaundo]

Ace is my medical problem child. He is being treated for Valley Fever, recently recovered from a terrible cat fight infection, and is now breathing weird. He sounds like Darth Vader. The breathing noise started almost two weeks ago. Since he had an appointment scheduled yesterday for his Valley Fever titer, we decided to get some x-rays done. Lung and throat x-rays looked fabulous.

 

The vet is recommending Zyrtec for one week to see if Ace is having an allergy problem. I got Ace started on the Zyrtec as soon as we got home yesterday. If the allergy pills don't work, then the vet said we may have to scope him. Is there a way to x-ray a dog's face without sedating him? I think it would be difficult, but what do I know? Ace would have to be anesthetized for the scoping procedure. I'm wary of putting him under because he never wakes up very well. It's quite traumatic really.

 

Anyway, I took some videos to give you guys an idea of what Ace sounds like. You might have to crank the volume up.

 

1.18.2013

 

1.22.2013 At the vet's office. He hasn't been panting at home, but did for most of the car trip as well as at the vet's. The noise is loud when he's panting.

 

1.23.2013 This was taken earlier today after taking two doses of the allergy pills - yesterday and this morning.

 

Is there anything you guys can think of that I should bring up with the vet?

 

[KF_in_Georgia]

Laryngeal paralysis? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PVpLXeBp5CQ

 

He might get some relief from Doxepin. Or the tieback surgery.

Edited January 23, 2013 by KF_in_Georgia

[MP_the4pack]

Does he bark at all. If so, what does that sound like now? My Nana had LP and we did the surgery when she was 11. Just the left side tieback. She lived til 15.5. And her LP had nothing to do with her going to the bridge.

But she didn't sound like Ace when she was quiet. Only when she got active. And her bark became very hoarse.

[Guest gurehaundo]

Whoa! That dog sounds just like Ace. Would the paralysis show up on an x-ray? Ace's throat looked normal. He also breathes like this all day long and when he's sleeping. He doesn't run around at all. Yesterday's vet trip was the most excitement he's had since the cat bite infection before Christmas.

[Guest 2dogs4cats]

The first 2 sound like a dog with heartworm, but I am sure he's been on preventative. How scary for you! I didn't want to put Daisy under for x-rays either. Found a vet who would do it without. It was her leg though and not her face. Maybe they need the face to be relaxed? I don't know. Ask your group if they can refer you to a vet who handles a lot of GHs. They may be more willing if they are familiar with the temprament. Hope you find an answer.

[Guest gurehaundo]

Now that I think about it, he hasn't really barked since the breathing issue started. He did try once, but it was quite raspy. He hasn't barked since. I have a video of that bark, but it sounds more like he was trying to talk. In my opinion, he sounded like a lion.

He tested heartworm negative when we adopted him in 2007. He, and our other dogs, were on preventative until we moved to Washington (from Colorado). Heartworm isn't all that common in our area so it's not recommended. Unfortunately, our group is back in Colorado. I do know some people in the Seattle area, though.

[MerlinsMum]

Sounds like LP but I'm no expert, just a knew a grey with it a few years ago. I am keeping you and Ace in my thoughts :goodluck

[Guest Fasave]

Could be a stretch but I had a greyhound with similar breathing and it turned out to be a torn salivary gland on the inside. Usually these are visible on the outside but not this one. We didn't figure it out until he ended up with a benign epulis that had to be removed and when they tried to insert the airway, they discovered a third of his airway was blocked.

[MP_the4pack]

Scoping is not the same as xrays. If the vet suspects LP they will scope Ace not xray him. You can't see paralysis on xray.

 

I know that when my vets suspected LP, they said that if they are going to put her under to scope they are also doing the tieback, since she was already under,. Most vets want to do it this way. So if your vet is going to scope ask about doing the tieback then and there.

 

Get your options for LP before the scope and get your vet's opinion on how much they think it's LP versus something else.

 

But, my 11 yr did just fine. The only real think you have to be careful of is them eating dry crunchy food/snacks that they could inhale. Aspirate pneumonia is more prevelant in dogs with LP with or without the tieback.

[macoduck]

What part of his body received the cat bite? If it was near the face or neck I wonder if there was some kind of systemic infection that needs more antibiotics. I know that's a bit of a stretch, but you never know.

[cleptogrey]

my welsh terrier had lp. it was relieved in cold weather, cold cold airconditioned rooms in the summer. at the office ace sounds like old willies wonka when he was doing his darth vardor deep lp breaths! my vet had me squirt a tbs of lemon down my dog's throat to clear up the mucous and it relieved many of the symptoms, we also kept him cool- he stopped traveling during the summer and was fine all winter since our house is barely heated.

 

i will say that my vet did have me see a specialist since he wasn't sure it was lp or possibly a problem w/ his heart. the diagnosistic eval included heart worm test-willie was ALWAYS on a preventative, this was just incase and basic blood work and some stress tests in the back to promote the breathing problem. at $800(willie was never sick for a day in his life and spent all of his health care $$ in one shot- this was years ago) i decided NOT to go back for a scoping, the next test. willie was 9 at the time,(the vet swore he was younger) lived an active life and was euthanised not for breathing difficulties- but diementia at 14.

 

maybe try the lemon, see if there is relief and see how he does in the cold. i would go w/ that approach first. if it is allergies and the zyrtec isn't cutting it ask about a round of steroids before scoping. i have really bad allergies and when they are totally out of control predisone is the only thing that works. poor boy, he does look stressed!!!

 

oh- wait! my friend's saluki developed horrid breathing problems- sounded like lp....well after tests galore and us putting our heads together(she was ready to euthanize him he was soooo bad) she finally tried an at home test for allergies. she started w/ just rice- and a novel protien- ground turkey. well, bandit's breathing cleared. he went on to pasta and turkey...lived to 18.5- he was 14 when she eliminated foods and found the answer .

 

i also agree w/ the cat bite infection so....

stay simple, talk to your vet, KISS(keep it simple s.....)

Edited January 24, 2013 by cleptogrey

[greyhead]

Upper respiratory problems are also symptomatic of babesiosis. https://sites.google.com/site/tickbornediseaseindogs/babesiosis Maybe it's time to think about treating Ace's?

Scoping is the only way to diagnosis LP, from what I'm told. Scritches to your sweet boy!

[JJNg]

Lots of good responses already. My top rule-out would be laryngeal paralysis. The only way to diagnose it is to sedate the dog for a look down the throat at the larynx - perhaps what the vet means by scoping? I'd agree with MP_the4pack about considering whether you'd want to do the tieback surgery if it is LP. If you do (and I'd recommend it), it'd be best to have the scoping done by a vet who can also do the surgery and proceed straight to that procedure. It's not a surgery that many general practice vets do, so you might need to go to a specialist.

[dmswartzfager]

My Frazzle had LP (confirmed, had tieback surgery), but he had normal breathing sounds when just standing or relaxing. When he panted though, or even just walking through our house, he sounded exactly like the video at the vet's office.

[3DogNite]

my Sweet Darbee-Doooo sounded just like the video!

She had the tie back surgery - scope that confirmed LP. She was 12 when we had this procedure and lived to

a ripe old age of 15,,, (her passing had nothing to do with the LP)

 

she had a speedy recovery and had no problems with swallowing: food, treats or crumbs,,

 

she did great!

good luck!

[cleptogrey]

personally i would try all the non-invasive options first, of course under your vet's guidance

find the righ antihistimaine

treatment for tbd

food

lemon juice

and then if nothing works scope and tieback if necessary.

 

way too many variables occuring right now

Edited January 24, 2013 by cleptogrey

[Guest gurehaundo]

The cat bite was on a front leg (wrist area). Ace was given a round of antibiotics and it cleared up within a few days, and I haven't thought about it after that. The vet did mention that she didn't think this breathing thing was related. As far as the Babesia goes, she is still not wanting to treat Ace for it because the titer is so low. I know that it sometimes doesn't mean much, but she's listening to the Prota-Tek lady in Arizona who is saying that we still need to focus on the Valley Fever and not worry about the Babesia just yet. I get what you're saying, though, Maryellen. That Babesia has been on my mind also, and the vet's.

 

I just got home from work. The greyhounds greeted me at the door like normal, aside from Ace's weird breathing. Ace is now chilling out across the house and I swear it sounds like I'm at the ocean listening to the waves. He doesn't sound any better, but he's only had four Zyrtec pills so far. I think he sounds worse than he did a week ago.

 

In the laryngeal paralysis video, the dog is panting the entire time. I wonder what happens when his mouth isn't open... Ace hasn't panted since the vet appointment on Tuesday. He is normally naked in the house, too. No coats, no collars. My husband keeps the house at a freezing 67 degrees. Brrrr for me, perfect for the dogs (well, not the IGs). To be honest, I haven't spent much time with the dogs outside. It's beyond cold out there! The dogs run out to potty and then come back in. I'm not entirely sure how Ace's breathing is in 20 degree weather while he's just standing there. On Tuesday, we were in the cold going from the car to the clinic and then back to the car. He was panting so he sounded terrible. I'll go out with him the next time to see what happens.

 

I don't see how giving him a little bit of lemon could hurt so we may give that a try. We don't have any so we'll have to make a trip to the store. I'll also ask my vet what she thinks.

 

The vet did mention something about Ace's tongue (or mouth - I can't remember) not being blue. If I remember correctly, that can be a symptom of laryngeal paralysis. From the videos I've seen I don't think the dogs had blue tongues. She did say that if we decided to get the scope in there, Ace would have to go to a different clinic since that clinic doesn't have the equipment. If LP is confirmed, we would do the surgery at that time. There is absolutely no question about that!

 

Maryellen, do you know if your vet has the proper equipment should Ace need this surgery?

 

I hope I answered everyone! Thank you so much for the well wishes. My buddy could use them. I owe you guys!

[Guest gurehaundo]

Here's the video of Ace talking or barking. He's normally way higher pitched. I'm not sure when the video was taken. It might have been the same day as the first video in my original post, but I always wear my husband's robe because it's just too cold in this house for me so I can't be positive. It's most likely not more than two weeks old. Oh, Ace does have a little pimply skin tag thing on his chin. The other dog barking is Six Pac.

 

[greyhead]

Spencer's in for a dental today, Liza, so I'll ask about equipment for LP surgery when they call to tell me I can pick him up. (My vet *loves* to do surgery, she says, so she very well might have it.) Spencer's breathing has been husky at times, with panting, so we had him checked for LP while he was under for his last dental. It wasn't that. But his breathing's nothing like Ace's. (I wonder if the doc at Protatek would feel differently if she knew about this new development.)

 

Ace sounds like a lion in that last clip! Bless his heart.

Edited January 24, 2013 by greyhead

[JJNg]

There really isn't any special equipment needed to do tieback surgery. It's more a matter of the vet's experience, comfort level, and surgical skills to perform the procedure.

[Guest gurehaundo]

I should've specified that the vet doesn't have the scope. Sorry about that! I sent off an e-mail to her so I'll wait to hear back from her. I did find a video where one dog did have a blue tongue. Man, I felt bad for that dog. It was pretty bad.

 

Ace went outside to potty. Six Pac and I went with him to keep him company. He sounded exactly the same as when he's passed out on his bed.

 

Thanks for asking your vet, Maryellen!

PS - I hope Spencer's dental goes well!

[MP_the4pack]

If it makes you feel better, the surgery (at least for my Onyx) was actually done from the side of her neck. They did not go in thru the mouth. They just scoped to make sure it was LP. It was a tiny incision on the left side and they tie back the larynx like you tie back a curtain. She was discharged that day and allowed to eat dinner. Once the anesthesia wore off, she was fine. Bounced back very quickly (she was 11 at the time)

[Guest gurehaundo]

MP, did the vet say why it was done through the side? I thought the surgery was only done through the mouth. Just a different way of doing it maybe?

[3DogNite]

My vet did this surgery thru the front ,, in the neck. just about where the collar would be.

[JJNg]

MP, did the vet say why it was done through the side? I thought the surgery was only done through the mouth. Just a different way of doing it maybe?

 

Doing the surgery through the side of the neck is standard. I've never heard of it done through the mouth. The "tieback" suture that holds one side of the larynx open has to pull to the side and needs to be anchored, and the only way to do that effectively is to come from the side. Here's a vet surgery site with more info.