Questions On A Stubborn Greyhound

[adudle00]

Hello! We just brought home or new boy yesterday, so he/we are still adjusting. I know this may take a while (how long typically?) and because I don't know how curious he will be about our fence and it's short in some areas I've been taking him out a leash, except in our higher fenced 'dog run' area, where he can run free. Anyways, he gets very stubborn and sometimes does not want to move. I'll try to tug on his leash a bit and he won't budge. He'll just stand there. Sometimes he comes over to me when I call him off leash and other times he just looks at me. But I'm more concerned about him not budging while on leash. I want to take him for walks, but I'm afraid I'll spend half the time just having to stand there until he decides he wants to move. Has anybody else experienced a stubborn walker like this? TIA!

[Guest mld]

Sounds like my guy, he will freeze when he in nervous, scared, unsure! Don't tug on the leash, their necks aren't made for this. You can try high value treats like chicken, liver, cheese! For my guy this didn't work at all, he is super shy, so for going up the stairs I literally had to stand behind him and place each paw on each step until we made it to the top. He will still do this on his walks if he hears kids, snow blowers, cars and in these cases I stand be hind him and push him through the snow, eventually he will go depending on the situation! If you can find a nice quiet place for him to walk on a leash that will help.

Edited January 8, 2013 by mld

[Guest DeniseL]

Yep, sounds like my hound. We have 6 months and he is just starting to really settle in. He is a slow bloomer for sure. In the beginning we had a terrible time getting him to walk. He would freeze. I know now that he was just overwhelmed and terrified. It took time and a lot of patience. And a lot of tasty treats as was mentioned. Oh, and a lot of consistency. Same walk to the same place at the same time. He came around and now walks great. I'm sure yours will, too.

[OwnedBySummer]

This is called statuing. Very common. Some are more anxious/overwhelmed than others. Summer only did this during the first few weeks. I would always let her look at whatever was attracting her attention but after what I considered a suitable amount of time, I would command "walk on", get her attention with a quick but gentle (NOT a correction) tug on the leash and away we would go.

[KickReturn]

Keep in mind that your new boy may be extremely depressed and confused. Please be very gentle and patient. As others have said use food to encourage and reward the behaviour you desire. Remember these are very sensitive creatures. It may take a while for him to trust you. Many owners see their Greyhounds continue to open up for a year or more. 6 months is more typical though.

 

As for the statuing, you can try turning a tight circle and then contunuing. A nice piece of cooked chicken, etc. can help to distract him and get him going. Sometimes it's OK just to stand with him for a bit. Maybe give a gentle ear scratch or belly rub if he likes that kind of thing. In time he will see you as a confident and competent leader and he will be happy to follow you anywhere.

 

You did mention that he sometimes comes to you when you call. This is a great sign. I highly recommend that you get some very high value treats and increase this recall training. Lots of rewards and happy praise everytime he comes to you when called. Than get him to "stay" and "wait" and them "come".

[Guest shanesmom]

Ace did this when he first came home. I needed him to potty on leash and it used to take forever because he was so overwhelmed he wouldn't even sniff for a potty spot. It took him a few months to get more comfortable and now he never freezes up. I have to admit that he was always better with my son. For him he would walk even in the beginning. My son was more confident and didn't baby him and it worked. If Ace started to freeze me son just slightly changed direction and kept moving. I learned from him. My son is 19 so not a child. Ace is a greyhound I would not allow a child to walk. Still at times he can get skittish about the strangest things.

[macoduck]

How short is the short section of your fencing?

Edited January 8, 2013 by macoduck

[Feisty49]

This topic crops up every once in a while. My girl did this from the beginning (adopted in July 2011). I don't have a fenced yard so had to walk her. She would plant herself and not move. I dreaded the walks. It could bring me to tears. Then I got advice from a dog trainer: Get her feet moving. This is what I wrote back in March last year:

 

 

If you decide he is done with his walk, that is he has P&Pd but is just not wanting to go home but you want to go home, here are some suggestions to get him moving that I wrote somewhere else on the forum (the link appears below).

When I first got Annie Bella (July last year), she planted herself more than walking, I swear. She still plants occasionally, but I have many ways to get her moving.

The first thing I recommend, which sometimes stops the planting, is to not slow down just 'cause your boy does, if indeed you ever do that. Walk along with the expectation he'll come along and don't slow or stop, even if he falls back a few feet. Without realizing it, we often pace ourselves to our dog's pace, and it should be the other way around.

Try walking him in a circle. Hold him close to your thigh, walk around pressing on his shoulder with that thigh and as you come out, keep on walking. I don't use this any more because my Annie Bella is beyond that but it always worked for me, if not the first circle on the second.

Give him a gentle push on a shoulder with your knee or a hand. I don't know about other Greyhounds, but Annie Bella does not like that at all. Talk about giving me stinky eye. The push should be firm enough to make her feet move and that movement starts them walking again.

Using two hands, give a gentle, but firm, push on his side. If the push on the shoulder doesn't work with Annie Bella, I do the side push, firm enough so that all four feet have to move, and again, that movement gets her going.

What also works for me, and I tried it out of frustration one time when I was really really really irritated with her, is to stand in front of her, bend down (I bend down so close that often her nose is touching mine), look her straight in the eyes and say with great firmness and aggravation, "Move!" or "Annie come." That always gets her going, because if I've reached that point, she knows I am pissed! (NOTE: This should be done only with a dog you know well.)

Often, especially when we're in the driveway heading to the door, she'll plant, or go slowwwwwwly, and I use my shame-on-you voice, and say something like, "Shame on you Annie Bella. Shame on you," my voice just dripping with disappointment and I tug. It took a few months of bonding before that worked.

You can always use treats. I never walk Annie Bella without treats in my pocket. They're good for training, if the opportunity comes up, and they're good to get her going. Gotta toss them, though, so your dog has to move. Once he's moving, you start out at a good pace with expectation in every step that he will follow.

The final way to get Annie moving - which I've had to use only twice because she refused to walk through a doorway -- is to hold her collar by the loop on the Martingale, which has her touching my thigh, and walk, tugging on the loop at the same time.

Good luck. I used to feel so foolish on a public street practically begging Annie Bella to move but those days are long gone, thankfully.


http://forum.greytal..._1#entry5145374

 

Of course, my hints are for walking on a pubic street, but the thing is to get his feet moving again and at the same time, start walking.

[adudle00]

How short is the short section of your fencing?

4 ft. The rest is between 5-6ft

[jetcitywoman]

Our backyard fence ranges from 3 - 4 feet high, and we haven't had any problems. It hasn't occurred to our greys that they're capable of jumping it, even when they chase squirrels over the fence. (It's a split rail with pet mesh, so they can see the squirrel running away.) The only time I worried was when a neighbor's dog escaped and came to visit us in our yard. She's a great dog and we all love her, but she's a jumper and I didn't want Capri to learn that from her. Capri is part mountain goat, part chimp. All she needs is an idea planted in that little skull.

 

As to the statuing.... tons of great advice here! The only thing I would add is that in a few months as your dog bonds to you, it will behoove you to pay attention to her body language because she will tell you exactly what she wants and how badly she wants it if you just pay attention. Capri was our first greyhound and early on I was very puzzled by how stoic and unemotional she seemed. She would never ask for anything, just meekly do whatever we asked. It took me over 6 months to realize she'd been talking to me the whole time but I was blind, and once I realized that I was pretty embarrassed. The realization came as I noticed that on walks she would turn her head to look down the street leading to the bike trail which I could tell was her favorite place to go. It wasn't until several attempts to walk her in the snow (we walk every day, regardless of weather) that this epiphany came to me:

 

head turned toward <something> = "Hmm, I'd like to go that way, I think"

front half of body turned toward <something> = "I'd really like to go this way"

whole body pointed toward <something, usually home> = "I WANNA GO HOME NOW, DAMMIT!"

 

I started listening to her. Opinions are sometimes overruled, however that last one gets my respect. There was one recent exception to this. Last year, DH came with us on an evening walk, and Little Miss Sunshine loved it so much she decided that he MUST come with us every day. (He does mornings, I do evenings, so it's not like he never walked her.) So for a few weeks after that she'd cross the street with me and then about-face and plant herself to wait for him. I had to very firmly pull her along (it took me several days to build up to this level of firmness, it feels mean to me), pretty much almost drag her. Then she finally got the message that she walks with me whether dad comes or not and stopped doing that.

 

She still does sometimes pause and look back at the house. It's hard to complain about being loved.

[GeorgeofNE]

You've had the dog for a DAY.

 

He doesn't know you. He has NO reason to trust you. It's naive to think he'll come when he's called--my dog didn't even know his name when I adopted him despite it having been his ONLY name for five years.

 

Will someone please post for this new adopter that piece about how everything in the dog's world is new and unfamiliar? Thanks!

[silverfish]

Kathleen Gilley's very readable seminar lecture:

No Fear, No Pain

 

It's really too long to add to a Greytalk post, but click the link. You'll be glad you did! It will explain to you exactly why your new dog does the things he does, including statuing. It's remarkably good.

 

Your new dog is almost certainly fearful, nervous, anxious, about all the changes and new things in his life. Be patient. If you look up 'statuing' in the search box here, you'll find a lot of posts with a lot of advice. My preference is to jolly them along, NOT pull on their necks, which are quite delicate compared to most breeds. You need to build trust with your dog, and I like to reassure mine with a simple touch on the shoulder in these situations. They come to learn that it means I'm there, and I'm in charge of the situation. Don't stroke, just rest your hand lightly on the shoulder for a moment and say in a calm voice, 'It's OK'.

 

If my dogs won't move with a little jollying along ("let's go!!") and reassurance (the shoulder touch), I will stand for a minute or two while they look and size up what's going on (might be nothing you can see!) and then turn a circle and try again. If they won't move, I take them home. They soon learn that if they want to go out, they have to do so on my terms.

 

It's also worth remembering that if you stand facing your dog and bent slightly forward (head low), as many people do when trying to cajole a dog to walk on, you are actually saying (in dog speak) 'do not walk towards me', unless you also pat your thigh, in an imitation of the play bow. Stand facing where you want to go while saying 'let's go!' and sweep your free arm in that direction. Then he'll know what you want. Chances are he's trying to learn your language at the same time you're trying to learn his.

[Guest sireltonsmom]

I sure like Silverfish's observations and advice. The area I'd like to comment on is the 'Come' command. When he comes when you ask, praise him highly EVERY time. This is the most important command you want to have him enjoy doing. Please NEVER admonish him for not coming. You want it to be worth him doing more than anything else. So hug him, praise him, give him a treat and every time he is coming towards you on his own, or doing any behavior on his own you want to reinforce, give the command and praise him like crazy. Enjoy him and have patience.

[a_daerr]

Agree with everyone else. He's not being stubborn- he's statuing because he's scared. Greys are very sensitive dogs, and it will take awhile for him to settle in. For a lot of ex-racers, it can take anywhere from six months to a year before they 100% adjust. It sounds like you didn't really know what you were getting into. Did you adoption group explain some of the greyhound-specific behaviors before you brought him home?

[macoduck]

4 ft. The rest is between 5-6ft

My fence is only 4 ft. Never had a problem with jumpers, but then I've almost always had seniors and known their history.

 

Your dog is so new to you that I wouldn't be in a hurry to go for walks. Give him time to settle in first.

[adudle00]

Agree with everyone else. He's not being stubborn- he's statuing because he's scared. Greys are very sensitive dogs, and it will take awhile for him to settle in. For a lot of ex-racers, it can take anywhere from six months to a year before they 100% adjust. It sounds like you didn't really know what you were getting into. Did you adoption group explain some of the greyhound-specific behaviors before you brought him home?

I knew it would take a while for him to settle in, but everybody says different time frames. I definitely don't want to push him, but I would like to take him on walks to give him exercise. I'm just not sure how long I should wait before I try? I wouldn't say that "didn't really know what I was getting into" because that makes me feel like you're implying I didn't do any research whatsoever. I think I knew what I was getting into to the best that I could, but obviously since I've never had a greyhound, there is a learning curve. I don't know everything, but I am dedicated to providing him with the best possible care I can...which is why I'm asking a lot of questions...

[adudle00]

My fence is only 4 ft. Never had a problem with jumpers, but then I've almost always had seniors and known their history.

 

Your dog is so new to you that I wouldn't be in a hurry to go for walks. Give him time to settle in first.

Okay, that's comforting. I walk him around the yard on a leash and he hasn't shown any interest in the fence anyways. He's extremeley mellow, so I don't *think* he'd jump it. How long do you recommend I let him settle in before I attemp to walk him? I live at the end of a cul de sac so I thought to first try walking him around the circle at first?

[silverfish]

I knew it would take a while for him to settle in, but everybody says different time frames. I definitely don't want to push him, but I would like to take him on walks to give him exercise. I'm just not sure how long I should wait before I try? I wouldn't say that "didn't really know what I was getting into" because that makes me feel like you're implying I didn't do any research whatsoever. I think I knew what I was getting into to the best that I could, but obviously since I've never had a greyhound, there is a learning curve. I don't know everything, but I am dedicated to providing him with the best possible care I can...which is why I'm asking a lot of questions...

 

Don't be offended.

 

Lots of us didn't know what we were getting into when we adopted our first greyhound. They're different from other breeds in so many ways and however much you read, there will still be a learning curve!

 

Everyone will have different ideas. I don't actually wait at all before taking mine for walks - and there are many people who have no choice because they live in apartments or houses without gardens/yards. I start on day two. Day one is for checking out house and garden. Day two they get started on twice-daily walks. Some of us adopt a second (or third, or fourth, etc) greyhound and the first still needs walking!

 

I DO wait for several weeks, maybe longer depending on the dog, before starting any formal training. For formal training, you need trust between you, so those first weeks are for building that. Doesn't mean you let them get away with everything, they can still learn that 'Uh-Uh!' means 'stop what you're doing immediately', and you can start 'naming the behaviour' after a week or so. When he lays down, as he is doing it tell him 'lay down, good boy!!' When he goes to his bed say 'On your bed, good boy!!' Another good one is 'Go pee, good boy!!' You'd be surprised how useful that one is going to be! But don't be tempted to ask him before he's actually in the process and you're sure he's going to do it. Leave that for the 'formal training' after he's really settled in and learned to trust you. Take it slowly.

[greysandmollie]

I have a 4 ft fence and have never had a problem with any of the greyhounds trying to go over it....lots of fostering of fresh off the track dogs too. I think you should be fine there.

 

if he is food motivated I would definately bring treats along for walks. That often gets dogs interested and comfortable...we all like to eat I guess! LOL

 

Have fun with him and he will be a totally different dog in a few weeks.

[adudle00]

I have a 4 ft fence and have never had a problem with any of the greyhounds trying to go over it....lots of fostering of fresh off the track dogs too. I think you should be fine there.

 

if he is food motivated I would definately bring treats along for walks. That often gets dogs interested and comfortable...we all like to eat I guess! LOL

 

Have fun with him and he will be a totally different dog in a few weeks.

Thank you! The group I adopted from said we need at minimum a 5ft fence, and that they've seen them get out of yards with 7ft fences! Perhaps latter today I will let him roam the yard. And I've noticed that he is definitley food motivated, I will try to use this to my advantage lol!

[a_daerr]

Oh no, I certainly didn't mean it like that. I just thought that would be something your adoption group would've addressed. All of the adoption groups in my area require adopters to read Greyhounds for Dummies, which address statuing and things like that.

[silverfish]

Thank you! The group I adopted from said we need at minimum a 5ft fence, and that they've seen them get out of yards with 7ft fences! Perhaps latter today I will let him roam the yard. And I've noticed that he is definitley food motivated, I will try to use this to my advantage lol!

 

Well, most don't bother, but some do jump! Our first greyhound came from an animal shelter and we were told they didn't jump, so we installed a three foot gate. Soon found out that while most of the time he didn't jump it, if he saw someone leaving without him, he most certainly could and did! That dog would jump a five-barred gate from a standing start, and his most famous feat was jumping up the sea wall at Hunstanton - it was about a 13 foot jump, because the wall slopes and he had a running start, but there was a collective gasp from the crowds!

 

Having said that, the paddock at Brambleberry racing/adoption kennel is about four foot, maybe four foot six, and nobody jumps it. There are rabbits and foxes out there, too.

 

Our fencing now is five to six foot fencing panels. We know our garden is secure, and it's also private. No matter what dog arrives, it's unlikely that they'll jump out ... though yes, I have seen video of a greyhound scaling a 7 foot fence. They hook their front feet over the top and scrabble.

 

I couldn't find that one, but

- he jumps out of this empty swimming pool effortlessly! Edited January 9, 2013 by silverfish

[Guest blueberri]

Hiya and welcome!!

 

I'm relatively new to the world of greyhounds too, and found the reality of a situation (ie having a 31kg dog plant his suddenly very heavy paws and refuse to move) was very different to reading about it.

 

Our dear boy initially went walkies just fine and dandy. He was excited to sniff everything, and pee everywhere.... and then next thing you know he won't walk past the neighbour's house, which is a shame as we live in a cul-de-sac! I questioned DH, and found out the kids up the road had been riding their bikes and yippee-yaying and carrying on during the previous walk, including the baby on his little plastic trike (very noisy on concrete). the end result was weeks of cajoling the poor dog, and the only time he'd consider going for a walk was when I got home from work at midnight. then we got a behaviourist involved. She encouraged us to help our boy develop confidence in his environment again by only going as far as he felt comfortable, turning back at the first signs of anxiety, and that the street was a dog-zone, for him to sniff and pee to his hearts content... not a walk-zone. We also did a few walks as a group, and for our dog this helped him feel more confident with his "pack" around him...

 

The rest of it was just working to slowly build trust. Ignoring the mischief (unless it's in action), and praising the good behaviour. Starting basic training (this helped *massively* with reducing his anxiety), and just playing and enjoying him. It seems to be playtime that really helps build the bond... playtime and the occasional quiet time where I will just sit or lie with my boy and pat him.

 

He's building confidence every day now, and it's been around a month since he statued over kids or bikes... and that's because he trusts me to act to keep him safe, be it by crossing the street away from the loud kids, or pulling him off the pavement and onto the grass to let people pass (and just stand quietly, patting and reassuring him), and refusing a child petting him, particularly if they are loud and of the stupid variety. I keep a close check on his anxiety levels with kids that are following my direction and asking to pet him... and as a result he's more confident with those kinds of kids.

 

He now only statues for stubborn-ness, so it's really easy to deal to

 

 

My waffle aside... it'll take time for him to settle. It'll take time for him to know his environment, his family, the expectations and rules. Until he's got that down pat, he's probably gonna do some goofy and weird stuff to try and help feel ok. Statuing is just one example. Take time, show him gentleness and fun, and you'll be rewarded by your dog having the confidence to show you his real personality... and that's delightful

[Guest Anya]

We've had Lara for just over four months now (not only my first greyhound, but my first ever dog), and I had this exact problem a couple of months ago. If you search on statueing, you will find several threads with lots of great suggestions. For me, the things that worked were squeezing a squeaky toy to break her concentration on whatever it was she was staring at, and walking in a different direction and then turning around. Time does seem to make a big difference though - she hardly statues at all now. At four months I can say that one important thing is that they go through all these phases initially. It seems like every week or two some problems disappear and then new ones crop up. I'm not even sure if we're "there" yet. But it's also so rewarding to have that bond developing and getting stronger over the weeks and months!

[a_daerr]

Wonder whatever happened to this dog? She was having a bunch of problems.