Serious Problem

[Guest Arielle]

Hey all, something happened that I've been crying over for a few hours now. My greyhound, Ari, bit me early this morning. I have had her for about nine months now, and never once has she exhibited any kind of aggression. I adopted her from a blood donor program, so she was certainly used to people touching her and messing with her. I had always considered her to be one of those bombproof dogs that would never go after a human. Well, this morning she was laying on the bed like she always does. I lifted up her tail to look at a scrape that she had, and she flipped out and lunged at my face. Sh bit me on the eye, and I now have a huge swollen bruised patch on the corner of my eye. I am absolutely devastated over this. She is my first grey, but I have only ever owned dogs that would never even think of harming a human. I am distraught to the point of returning her to the blood donor program, as I really do not want a dog that exhibits aggression towards people and don't want to be responsible if she bites someone else. At the same time, though, I have grown extremely attached to her and the thought of giving her up is unimaginably heartbreaking. Is there any way to work through this? Has anyone else dealt with a people-aggressive dog?

[Batmom]

She isn't people aggressive. You startled her and, in dog terms, you really threatened her.

 

Rule #1: Don't bend over the dog when the dog is on his/her bed. Rule #2: If there's something potentially painful or ticklish that you need to look at, slip the dog's kennel muzzle on or get someone else to hold her head before you do it.

 

Sorry you have a nasty bruise and hope it (and your spirits) are better soon.

[Guest PiagetsMom]

First, to you because I know that it's so upsetting to have something like this happen.

 

I love my pups, but I don't do bed or furniture priveledges with them - never have, and it works just fine for us and them. That being said, I would imagine that this has more to do with the scrape that you said you were trying to check. Perhaps if you'd checked while she was standing up instead of comfortable and in bed she might not have had this reaction. I think often we get so comfortable with our pups that we feel we can do anything to them, but I think even the best natured dog will react negatively when they're startled/afraid or in discomfort/pain.

 

Bites are hard to move past, even when you understand why it happened. It takes some time.

 

edited to add: I assumed you were talking about your bed, but even if it were a dog bed, I'm a firm believer in the "let sleeping dogs lie" theory.

Edited May 29, 2012 by PiagetsMom

[Guest zombrie]

Greyhounds are used to having their own space, undisturbed. When a dog is on her bed, she should be left alone and if for whatever reason you need to approach her, make sure you get her attention so she knows you are coming.

"let sleeping dogs lie"

[racindog]

Don't take it personal. She wasn't thinking about biting you. She just was taken by surprise so to speak at her tail being moved and did what dogs do-she bit at it. Being a dog she doesn't realize that bites can be as harmful to people as what they can be so never dreamed it would be actually harming you. They bite each other all the time jsut as a means of communication-its one of the reasons puppy teeth are so sharp. And notice how the "victim" dog is usually not offended and the incident is over and forgotten by both dogs. Honestly I can't imagine anybody living closely around dogs theri whole life and not getting bit at some point. As proof of my suggustion that she meant no harm and was just communicating in dog talk the damage was very minor compared to what she could have done if she would haev wanted to actually harm you. The injury you sustained was just an unintended consequence of her "communication." If anything it should make you feel safer because it shows she exercises bite inhibition and truly intends no harm. Please don't be upset with her. I guarantee you she never meant to hurt you. She was just communicating in dog langauge that she at that moment was not comfortable with what was happenning. She's not people aggressive, she's just being a dog. A people aggressive dog would have injured you far more serioulsy because they would have wanted to infilct harm. Theres a world of difference between what Ari did and a genuinely aggressive dog. JMO.

[lovemycoffee]

It sounds more like sleep agression than people agression. Many greyhounds will snap or bite if they're startled awake. I had a good old boy for about 10 years, and like you said he was bombproof. In bed one night I inadvertently landed on his head with my own, and he bit me really hard. He didn't draw blood, but it hurt so much that I actually cried. I didn't blame him at all, it was totally my fault.

 

I have another boy whom I've had for a few years, and he slept in bed with me. One night I moved and bumped him, and he bit me. I immediately kicked him off of the bed, and he wasn't allowed back for months until he learned that I owned the bed, not him.

 

I know it's upsetting to be bitten by your dog, but don't give up on her. As long as she's not generally agressive towards you, just be careful approaching her if she's lying down or sleeping. Make sure she's awake and knows you're going to touch her before you do. You might also want to limit her access to the bed for a while until you feel you can trust her again.

[Guest FastDogsOwnMe]

Call the dog's name first if she is sleeping, and make sure she sees you. Now a wake dog doing that, I would never tolerate. But, startle aggression is a different animal all together, and simply making sure the dog knows you are there is an easy fix.

[Guest KennelMom]

Here's the problem:

Well, this morning she was laying on the bed like she always does. I lifted up her tail...

 

If you want to examine a dog, get them up and on their feet. That way you know they're alert and aware of what's going on around them.

 

This was simply a startle response. BTDT. One of our fosters (now a permanent resident) that we were fostering BECAUSE she bit someone ON the face, tagged me once. She was on the dog bed. I called her name...she even lifted her head and glanced back at me. I patted her hiney and then leaned over to pet her head. After we counted my eyeballs to make sure they were both still there, DH said: W T F were you thinking? You KNOW better than that! Yep. I do.

 

No matter how long you've had a dog. No matter how they've behaved in the past, understand that ALL dogs can bite. It's not always (or usually) aggression...it's usually fear, pain or startle. Always, always, always, always respect the pointy end of the dog and protect yourself from it. ALL dogs of EVERY breed can bite. It's when we forget this that we get ourselves into a situation where the dog is set up to fail.

Edited May 29, 2012 by KennelMom

[Guest Arielle]

Hey, thanks for the quick responses. I just want to clarify that she definitely was NOT sleeping. Her eyes were open and her head was up when I approached her. I know that greyhounds can have space aggression but I have never seen this from her before. Thanks again!

[Guest FastDogsOwnMe]

Well I can guarantee you that crap wouldn't fly in my house.

[JohnF]

I think a lot of us will have been in that same position with a startle reflex or if fiddling around with veterinary checks without thinking. Peggy nearly got my arm once when I was pulling a sock up over her injured stifle and inadvertantly caught some elastic on one of her toes. She gave a woof and just inhibited doing a skin-breaking bite. I'd have tried not to get mad if she did bite as it was my own stupid fault. Instead I stopped the offending action and redirected her onto something else, then got the muzzle. Muzzles are there for a reason and as a Grey sees them as 'going out things' they don't mind them at all. Peggy isn't nasty, but she's still a dog and I always encourage the vet to muzzle, especially in these litiginous times.

I remember too when one of my Borzois broke her ankle on the beach, a kind man came to help me carry her back (1/2 a mile), he held the safe rear end and I carried the 'snapping' end with my coat wrapped around it

 

To move on from this keep your routine but instil the need for the dog to earn things off you.

[Guest FastDogsOwnMe]

(an injured dog or a terribly frightened dog would be an obvious exception, I have to add)

[greysandmollie]

No words of wisdom but just wanted to say that sucks....

[greytpups]

I don't have a lot to add, just wanted to point out that it sounds like you put all the blame on Ari. Please look at your actions here too so you can avoid this in the future.

 

We have the most gentlest hounds ever at home and I can touch them while they are sleeping on their beds without an issue, but i still make sure they are awake first. I don't like to be startled, so I don't expect they do either.

 

Have you read this article from kathlen Gilley?

 

This breed has never been asked to do anything for itself, make any decisions or answer any questions. It has been waited on, paw and tail. The only prohibition in a racing Greyhound's life is not to get into a fight----------------or eat certain stuff in the turn out pen.

Let us review a little. From weaning until you go away for schooling, at probably a year and a half, you eat, grow and run around with your siblings. When you go away to begin your racing career, you get your own "apartment," in a large housing development. No one is allowed in your bed but you, and when you are in there, no one can touch you, without plenty of warning.

Someone hears a vehicle drive up, or the kennel door being unlocked. The light switches are flipped on. The loud mouths in residence, and there always are some, begin to bark or howl. You are wide awake by the time the human opens your door to turn you out. A Greyhound has never been touched while he was asleep. You eat when you are fed, usually on a strict schedule. No one asks if you are hungry or what you want to eat. You are never told not to eat any food within your reach. No one ever touches your bowl while you are eating. You are not to be disturbed because it is important you clean your plate.

You are not asked if you have to "go outside." You are placed in turn out pen and it isn't long before you get the idea of what you are supposed to do while you are out there. Unless you really get out of hand, you may chase, rough house and put your feet on everyone and everything else. The only humans you know are the "waiters" who feed you, and the "restroom attendants" who turn you out to go to the bathroom. Respect people? Surely you jest.

No one comes into or goes out of your kennel without your knowledge. You are all seeing; all knowing. There are no surprises, day in and day out. The only thing it is ever hoped you will do is win, place or show, and that you don't have much control over. It is in your blood, it is in your heart, it is in your fate-- or it is not.

And when it is not, then suddenly you are expected to be a civilized person in a fur coat. But people don't realize you may not even speak English. Some of you don't even know your names, because you didn't need to. You were not asked or told to do anything as an individual; you were always part of the "condo association?; the sorority or fraternity and everyone did everything together, as a group or pack. The only time you did anything as an individual is when you schooled or raced, and even then, You Were Not Alone.

Suddenly, he is expected to behave himself in places he's never been taught how to act. He is expected to take responsibility for saying when he needs to go outside, to come when he is called, not to get on some or all of the furniture, and to not eat food off counters and tables. He is dropped in a world that is not his, and totally without warning, at that.

Almost everything he does is wrong. Suddenly he is a minority. Now he is just a pet. He is unemployed, in a place where people expect him to know the rules and the schedule, even when there aren't any. (How many times have you heard someone say, He won't tell "me when he has to go out. What kind of schedule is that?) Have you heard the joke about the dog who says "My name is No-No Bad " Dog. What's yours? To me that is not even funny. All the "protective barriers are gone. There is no more warning before something happens. There is no more strength in numbers. He wakes up with a monster human face two inches from his. (With some people's breath, this could scare Godzilla.) Why should he not, believe that this someone for lunch? (I really do have to ask you ladies to consider how you would react if someone you barely knew crawled up on you while you were asleep?) No, I will not ask for any male input.

Now he is left alone, for the first time in his life, in a strange place, with no idea of what will happen or how long it will be before someone comes to him again. If he is not crated, he may go through walls, windows or over fences, desperately seeking something familiar, something with which to reconnect his life. If he does get free, he will find the familiarity, within himself: the adrenaline high, the wind in his ears, the blood pulsing and racing though his heart once again--until he crashes into a car.

Often, the first contact with his new family is punishment, something he's never had before, something he doesn't understand now, especially in the middle of the rest of the chaos. And worst of all, what are the most common human reactions to misbehavior? We live in a violent society, where the answer to any irritation is a slap, punch, kick, whip, or rub your nose in it. Under these circumstances, sometimes I think any successful adoption is a miracle.

He is, in effect, expected to have all the manners of at least a six-year old child. But, how many of you would leave an unfamiliar six-year old human alone and loose in your home for hours at a time and not expect to find who knows what when you got back? Consider that if you did, you could be brought up on charges of child abuse, neglect and endangerment. Yet, people do this to Greyhounds and this is often the reason for so many returns.

How many dogs have been returned because they did not know how to tell the adopter when they had to go out? How many for jumping on people, getting on furniture, counter surfing, separation anxiety, or defensive actions due to being startled or hurt (aka growling or biting)? So, let's understand: Sometimes it is the dog's fault" he cannot fit in. He is not equipped "with the social skills of a six-year old human. But you can help him.

 

[Yamaha_gurl]

Is it indeed a tiny scrape? Perhaps it hurts her and is something more serious? Think about it this way: If you had a say...broken leg, and someone lifted it, would you not be mad as well?

[Guest FastDogsOwnMe]

Yes, is it possible it was a pain response? In which case, it would make a little more sense. "Hey I am on my bed, so I am going to bite you" is not okay, and indeed in my book would be a serious problem. But if she is hurting, she may have just had a gut reaction.

[Tallgreydogmom]

Don't take it personal. You are still getting to know your greyhound. You were in her space and her tail. I have been bitten by my loves a few times. If I wanted to get bitten right now ( just crazy talk) I could do something to cause it. Please forgive your greyhound and remember the tail is off limits.

 

Big Hugs for both of you.

[MaryJane]

A few people mentioned that having dogs means that you will get bites and I agree with this statement but, you don't want to get "bad" bites. When you are doing any procedure like wiping paws, brushing teeth or fur, or checking for ticks, sometimes your dog will just decide it doesn't want it anymore and do a snap. The dog does not mean to grab your skin - the dogs just wants to say "that's enough" - it's just that they can't talk so they use their mouth. It can be scary but, it is different than having a "mean dog" -- some dogs are just mean and will take your arm off without any provocation and that does not sound like the case here at all.

 

All dogs have the potential to bite under circumstances that are unique to them. You eventually learn what sets a particular dog off and find innovative ways to deal with the issue. It's a learning process for both your dog and you. You dog has only been with you for 9 months so while she is not "new", it still may not be enough time to build up the trust so that you could do any procedure without a "preparation". For example, before I take my dogs paws and lift them up to wipe them off I ALWAYS first tap the top of the particular leg that I am going to lift to wipe off. This way it prepares them for me picking the leg up -- otherwise, they could be startled and snap at my face when I am in a pretty vulnerable position (bent over with my face next to theirs).

 

If you can get past this first occurrence ... and maybe you can't only you can tell - then think about going to obedience classes.

[Guest barkdogs]

I am sorry this happened--I know it's traumatic. Dogs are here to teach us many important things, and one of those things is that they are dogs, not people. It is easy to forget with these lovely, sweet beings!

 

First, Ari is not aggressive. I have been bitten by my dogs in similar circumstances, including my lovely boy Nigel who loves everyone, loves little kids, etc. We live in a culture that feeds on fear, so that if a dog bites, the cultural response is "AUGH!!! aggressive dog! Lawsuit!" The problem with this response is it ignores the myriad reasons that dogs bite. Every time one of my dogs has nailed me it has been my fault. I still give them a serious scolding, as I never want them to think it's OK, but I also don't take it personally. I also muzzle or restrain the ones that might be inclined to nip if I have to do something that they are not comfortable with, such as nail trimming or wound care.

 

A human aggressive dog would have really hurt you, and a human aggressive dog would not have stopped at one snap. I would bet my next paycheck that your girl isn't human aggressive.

 

If I have a dog who is sleep/space aggressive, I not only make sure that they are awake but also that they are paying attention to me when I want to touch them. If I need to look at something like a wound I touch the area around it first so that I won't startle them. Mine do sleep with me but they first learn "up" and "off" so that they know that it is up to me when they can be on the bed. I don't grab them and pull them off--that could elicit a fear response and a bite. If I ever have a situation where they are not moving (I haven't, but I could see how it might happen with an unknown dog) I but a leash on first so I can use the leash as a "safety" attachment. They also learn "come," "wait," "leave it," "drop it" and, for those who can do it comfortably, "sit" and also "down." Basically I like them to know the useful commands for every day living.

 

So, don't let the fear mongers out there in the world get to you. Usually that comes from people that usually have no understanding of dog behavior. It is all a learning process; unfortunately, some lessons hurt--I know--I have had a few over the years!

 

Hang in there, Your dog is still the same awesome sweet dog--just one who startles in a way that is actually pretty normal for the species.

 

And the post above (suggesting obedience classes) is a great idea! It builds your relationship with your dog!

[TheFullHouse]

My first thought when you said she had a scrape, was some sort of pain response. Always muzzle a dog if you're going to examine them, especially to look at an injury. It may just look at a scrape but there may be more to it than that. She may be sore.

[Guest DragonflyDM]

I think that everyone here is giving pretty good advice and I concur-- don't deal with the dog on his bed. Don't play with a boo-boo without a muzzle. Don't be surprised that years of experience don't leave a dog after 9 months.

 

With that being said-- I would also add, don't believe that any other dog would "never" snap at you. Other dogs have a life time of experience with people and so probably have more confidence and trust with people (in general)-- however, anytime they feel uncomfortable or nervous it could turn into a situation where they snap to defend themselves.

 

But remember...if a dog wanted you harmed--- they would do it seriously.

[Guest Jacks_Human]

I agree with the pain response thing. Jack-- who is incredibly docile with me 99% of the time-- once snapped at me when I went to examine a scrape on his leg without warning him, whilst he was lying on his bed. My take-away lesson is that I verbally warn him before checking for a suspected scrape, etc. by saying 'Ok Jack, I'm going to come look at your feet now' or whatever, and that has prevented any further issues. (He did also once growl at me when I dropped a mobile phone charger on his head whilst he was asleep, but that was 100% my fault for being a butterfingers).

[vjgrey]

I'm kind of shocked that you haven't encountered these issues in vet school - the proper way to handle an injured dog and the difference between a dog who bites out of fear/pain and one that's actually "people aggressive."I'd expect vets to deal with those issues on a daily basis.

 

In any case, I really hope you won't return her as a knee-jerk reaction. I know being bitten is physically AND emotionally painful. I've been there. But you need to take time to sit back and really assess things (including your role in the bite) before you make any decisions.

[Guest Arielle]

Thanks again to everyone for the great advice. I have read that newly adopted greyhounds can show sleep and/or space aggression, and if this were something that had taken place in the first few months that I had Ari, I wouldn't be concerned in the least. I had just been under the impression that after nine months she would be completely settled and comfortable with me. Thanks again for the replies!

[3greytjoys]

I'm sorry this happened... Others are giving excellent advice about leaving dogs alone when on their bed, etc.

 

Tails are a private part on dogs. That body part is not normally touched/pet/handled by a human. If handled, it's often for an unpleasant rectal thermometer, anal gland expression, rectal exam etc... Not fun.

 

Agree: "Your dog has only been with you for 9 months so while she is not "new", it still may not be enough time to build up the trust..."

 

My beloved "heart boy" is touch sensitive. I allowed a couple of years to slowly build our trusted relationship. We have a wonderful deep trust now. I've always been very respectful of him on his dog bed (his personal "safe zone"). He stands for injury inspections, and we muzzle him before doing nail clipping, or nursing an injury (same with all our hounds). (If nail clipping, he's standing and gets treats through his muzzle as distraction.) He gets muzzled during veterinary exams, for shots, etc.

 

If we need to thoroughly examine a cut/wound injury, I take photos to "zoom in" on a computer screen, taking more time to inspect. (Future tip: Paw pads often show up well when wet.)

 

Good luck with your decision.