Greyhound Becoming Aggressive Towards Me?!

[Guest nickyb]

Hi all,

 

My girlfriend adopted a greyhound about 4 months ago. Now to clarify, we didn't get the dog from a programme - it was through a friend of a friend who told us they'd visited a trainer in Nowra (rural nsw) to try and get a companion animal for their puppy. The trainer basically told them he had a few dogs in the adoption programme but the runt of his failed racers wouldn't get into an adoption programme and if they didn't take her he was going to have to get her put down.

 

So one dose of emotional blackmail later they took her but things didn't work out - basically she was terrified of everything and never left the bathroom and the dogs didn't get on.

 

After a good chat we said we try and provide a home for her - got the trainer in straight away and over the last few months everything went really well - we had a lovely natured if somewhat skittish dog (she get's freaked out by the most random things - ie brightly coloured flowers) who was gradually getting more and more confident.

 

She's also been to one session of obedience classes (um she wasn't very good, but seemed to get the hang of stay and all in all made progress).

 

But she's also slowly started to show signs of aggression, more specifically signs of aggression towards me.

 

The first instance was she snuck in from the backyard to her den with a bone - (she knows she's not allowed to bring them in the house) and growled at me when I tried to get her to go outside - this was a couple of months ago and I thought it was understandable as food aggression.

 

The we started to let her on the sofa, she was fine but she would full asleep, become startled and suddenly jump up snarling and growling. While not ideal we thought 'ok, it's sleep agression, we just won't let her nod off on the sofa.'

 

Then she got aggressive with me while she was awake on the sofa - she snapped at me and growled.

 

So we thought, ok it's a sofa thing, we'll keep her off for a while.

 

Then last night she jumped up on the sofa (she's obsessed with trying to get up there and I let her up for a bit - stupid I know but I was hoping she'd settled) and when I tried to move her she snapped and barked at me. My girlfriend had to get her off with treats (I know this is not ideal but we just didn't know how else to get her off) as neither one of us wanted to try and move her.

 

Then this morning I went to say hello to her on her bed - I made sure she was wide awake, she wagged her tail and rolled over on her back so I could rub her belly - we have done this countless times without incident and after I'd rubbed her belly for a few minutes she turned on me without warning, lunged at my face snapping and barking.

 

I'm at a loss as to what's causing this. Could it be a jealously thing?

 

I don't live in the house but spend a few nights a week there, and the dog has definitely become more bonded to mel in the last few weeks.

 

We're also about to move intogether with my cat - any suggestions?!

[Brandiandwe]

As a matter of curiousity, which adoption programme turned the dog down? I live in Sydney, and am in close contact with our programme who do turn dogs down they deem unsuitable as pets, usually for good reason. This isn't based on age, as a rather cute puppy has recently come in, but on temperament. So aggression, towards other dogs, excessively high prey drive, or aggression towards people, would all be reasons to knock the dog back. (please don't post about the rights and wrongs of this. Greyhound adoption here is small and resources are limited.)

 

They are also quite keen to help and have contacts who might be helpful. It might be something about resource guarding, the hound still settling in or whatever, others here will have suggestions, but pm me if you're local and want some local contacts.

[Guest nickyb]

Thanks Brandiandwe that would be great.

 

To be honest I don't know which agency it was, as we got the information 3rd hand.

 

When we took the dog on we were aware it might be more difficult than usual but as she settled in relatively easily we thought we were making really good progress- so the agression has come as a bit of a shock.

 

 

 

 

[JohnF]

The snarkiness appears to be progressive so it may be something physiological is causing it. I think I'd have the vet check everything out.

Bone guarding and sleep startle are par for the course with many of them, lunging and snapping after being petted is not.

You've done a wonderful thing giving this dog a home, but please understand that not every rescue dog gets to make it.

[3greytjoys]

Good to stop allowing her on human furniture for now (and probably for at least 6 months or so). Her reaction of acting as if she's keeping intruders off "her" sofa is not uncommon, (same thing with the bone), especially for a new hound in a new home. Actually, calling the hound off the sofa with treats is fine, good if you're calling her into another room for a treat. (You are rewarding her for getting "off" the sofa.) That is a much safer method than risking a snap or bite from physical handling. Please know these things happen with many dogs, and most are successfully worked through.

 

I'd suggest humans leave her alone whenever she is lying down on her bed, etc. "Let sleeping dogs lie" (even if they're awake).

 

Better to wait for her to approach humans on her own whenever SHE feels ready for attention. Similar to a cat who becomes over stimulated by petting, the hound may feel an overdose of stimulation (human petting and attention) too.

 

Quietly hand feeding her full meals for a few days while human is sitting on the floor (looking away from dog = no direct eye contact) often helps shy/fearful dogs bond with humans.

 

Here is a good article about canine Calming Signals:

http://www.canis.no/rugaas/onearticle.php?artid=1

 

Please take a look at the Questions and Answers section (in link above) for fear aggression too.

 

Only your hound knows if she were mistreated in her past... If she happened to be mistreated by a male, that may be why she's more apprehensive and fear reactive towards you. Your calm patience will go a long way in helping her build trust towards humans. I imagine you'll be amazed at her progress this time next year.

 

Just my opinion, these dogs are the ones who are the MOST rewarding because they can blossom so well over time.

 

Good luck with her.

Edited May 27, 2012 by 3greytjoys

[greytpups]

I disagree here but I'm not an expert. You've rewarded her with treats for misbehaving so that might be a little difficult now since you've reinforced bad behaviour. If she got off the sofa when you asked, then a treat would be a reward.

 

I would immediately start with NILF and find a really good behaviourist to work with again since it sounds like you're on your own. There's lots of threads about aggression here too and of course many books. I'd also suggest looking up old posts from Giselle here on GT. She has lots of expertise.

[Batmom]

Good to stop allowing her on human furniture for now (and probably for at least 6 months or so). Her reaction of acting as if she's keeping intruders off "her" sofa is not uncommon, (same thing with the bone), especially for a new hound in a new home. Actually, calling the hound off the sofa with treats is fine, good if you're calling her into another room for a treat. (You are rewarding her for getting "off" the sofa.) That is a much safer method than risking a snap or bite from physical handling. Please know these things happen with many dogs, and most are successfully worked through.

 

I'd suggest humans leave her alone whenever she is lying down on her bed, etc. "Let sleeping dogs lie" (even if they're awake).

 

Better to wait for her to approach humans on her own whenever SHE feels ready for attention. Similar to a cat who becomes over stimulated by petting, the hound may feel an overdose of stimulation (human petting and attention) too.

 

Quietly hand feeding her full meals for a few days while human is sitting on the floor (looking away from dog = no direct eye contact) often helps shy/fearful dogs bond with humans.

 

Here is a good article about canine Calming Signals:

http://www.canis.no/...cle.php?artid=1

 

 

As above . The instances you describe all involve activities that an uncertain/submissive dog can regard as threatening -- a bone, a favored sleeping spot, bending over her while she's on her bed. Hand feeding and you taking her to training classes -- or perhaps engaging a trainer/behaviorist at home, and then you practicing with her -- can go a long way toward building a more predictable relationship.

 

Wishing you best luck with her!

 

 

 

 

ETA: If I have to move a dog who doesn't know the appropriate commands yet (for example, "Off the sofa!"), I put the dog's leash on and then turn AWAY from the dog, cheerful "Let's go!" and reward for complying.

Edited May 27, 2012 by Batmom

[Guest Dragon]

This (almost) exact thing happenned with our girl, who is very sweet now. She was more timid and easily frightened when we first got her, as it turns out, she was latently dominant, which she was hiding with her weird aggression issues. We solved her food aggression by hand feeding her for a couple months. She too, was determined to be a couch dog...As for the couch thing, which was the most disturbing beause she would snap as seemingly random times (like when you've been petting her for hours, then all of a sudden she'd decide you were done), we stopped allowing her on the couch until she could behave. Something about being UP on the couch made her feel very important. We didn't lure her off the couch with treats though. We got very stern and grabbed her collar and clapped and told her no!! I'm not used to scolding animals, and with being just snapped at by my pet, the first few times it did make me cry. But she learned her lesson, and she only growls/snaps at her brother (other greyhound) now, which we can correct if it gets out of hand, but we usually allow growling as a communication mechanism between the two of them, as long as there's no biting. We just made it clear to her that we humans are in charge, and if she wants to be in charge of the dogs in the house, that's fine, but she is not going to be the boss of us. She really loves her humans now, cuddling with us daily, and starving for constant human attention. I'm not necessarily trying to give advice because there are probably many others here more capable than I. Your post just reminded me a lot of Pixie when we first got her, and I thought I'd share our experience to give you some hope.

 

(She still secretly pees in the house though. Just found THAT out. No success stories for that...sigh).

[Guest SusanP]

Knowing that this is a rather nervous dog is probably the key, here. One of our hounds, an old broodie named Simon, was skittish and did quite a bit of nipping at us early on until we realized a few things: She needed more time to relax and trust us than our other hounds did--and I mean many months! And she didn't like humans too close to her when she was lying down, especially if they hovered over her or near her face. Eventually she settled down very well and was a sweet, slightly crusty old girl. But we always remembered to respect her boundaries.

 

Some tips for getting a dog to go where you want her to safely--Put her leash in and use that to guide her, rather than using your hands. And I"m not above using a treat. I don't feel it's rewarding bad behavior if a growl happened, and then after that I reward her *for getting off the bed or couch*. The thing she'll remember is that she got a treat when you told her "off" or whatever.

 

I agree that a vet check is a wise idea, but also look at your training methods. Is there a chance your methods are too "brisk" for an unusually sensitive dog? Do you correct her with a raised voice? Think about your body language. It could be that if you are big and tall and loud, she is just going to need more time to feel safe around you. Work on bonding by taking her for walks, doing what she enjoys with her, lots of gentle, friendly behavior *when she is standing up and not holding a bone*, and for now, avoid petting her when she's lying down...This may all be temporary. Our hounds have all changed so much over the first year or so we had them. At the end of a year, we looked back and realized how many glitches worked themselves out. So be patient and trust that she will bond with you in time, and make allowances for her rather nervous nature. And be safe in the meantime!

 

PS; The cat issue is another kettle of fish--Do you know how she reacts to cats? Is she high-prey? You'll get advice from people who know more than I do on that topic. Good luck!

Edited May 27, 2012 by SusanP

[MaryJane]

I don't pretend to know all the "ins and outs" here but, it seems like this is happening more often as she is getting settled so ... IMHO, she is testing boundaries. This usually happens after a dog has been in a home approx from 3 to 6 months and it is a process where they are trying to establish themselves in the pack pecking order. It is likely to mean that she is feeling comfortable ... maybe TOO comfortable.

 

If you have not been walking or feeding the dog - you need to start. When you walk the dog, walk with a tight leash with a purpose for about 10 minutes and then loosen up a bit so she can smell for a minute or two and then back to a tight leash and walk for another 10 minutes. Also, you should start feeding her occasionally so she starts to associate you with food. You may want to take her to training classes by yourself.

 

Don't let her up on the furniture (either the bed or couch) - if she gets up, put the leash on her and tell her "OFF" and use the leash to get her off.

[christinepi]

I don't pretend to know all the "ins and outs" here but, it seems like this is happening more often as she is getting settled so ... IMHO, she is testing boundaries. This usually happens after a dog has been in a home approx from 3 to 6 months and it is a process where they are trying to establish themselves in the pack pecking order. It is likely to mean that she is feeling comfortable ... maybe TOO comfortable.

 

If you have not been walking or feeding the dog - you need to start. When you walk the dog, walk with a tight leash with a purpose for about 10 minutes and then loosen up a bit so she can smell for a minute or two and then back to a tight leash and walk for another 10 minutes. Also, you should start feeding her occasionally so she starts to associate you with food. You may want to take her to training classes by yourself.

 

Don't let her up on the furniture (either the bed or couch) - if she gets up, put the leash on her and tell her "OFF" and use the leash to get her off.

 

Not to high jack the thread--I just feel a more precise interpretation in your response of what's going on could change the approach in a more productive way; so rather than saying "testing the boundaries", which interprets the dog's behavior as more proactively aggressive, I would use the words "being confused as to where she stands". This has a much more passive feel to it. Dogs hate nothing more than not knowing what the rules are, which can lead to aggression out of frustration--not because they want to dominate everybody else. Understanding this leads to taking responsibility for our own behavior so we can become clear to the dog what we want it to do, rather than becoming frustrated with the dog (who will be able to sense the frustration and get even more confused), or coming on too strong when all that is needed is clarity.

 

I am NOT saying anybody's frustrated or doing wrong things to this dog--all I'm saying how we phrase things is really important.

Edited May 27, 2012 by christinepi

[Guest DragonflyDM]

I think this is all good advice, but first I would rule out anything medical before attacking the behavioral. If the dog is having a medical issue it may not be in the right frame of mind to deal with people.

[Brandiandwe]

Sending through a PM with info about Sydney based behaviouralists who have worked with greyhounds and also the adoption programme I went through who have behaviouralists and vets on board. Also info about my vets who are pretty good with greys as well.

 

I'd put a hold on moving in with the cat though. Not a good idea just yet.

[Brandiandwe]

Tried and failed - you can't use the system yet. Mods, hoping its ok to include those links.

 

Here's the info I had in my message:

 

Hi nickyb,

 

Good luck weith your girl's girl! We've got two hounds, one high prey and the other who has learned the behaviour. Both went through an adoption programme which assessed them for aggression, and we've had no problems with aggression towards humans, but they did give us some valuable insights into their personalities, and have continued to be a wealth of information and support to us.

 

The behaviouralist they recommended is Both ends of the leash. http://www.bothendsoftheleash.org/

We haven't used them ourselves - we've been working with Paige ourselves and seeing gradual improvement, but this might also be the way forward.

 

We go to Baulkham Hills Veterinary Hospital

http://www.baulkhamhillsvet.com.au/

 

We adopted through Greyhounds As Pet which is through www.thedogs.com.au via the 'ownership' tab. They might also be able to point you in the right direction and offer some support. At the very least, they might be able to offer you an assessment of your pup. There's also Greyhound Adoption Programme - you want to be in touch with the one run by Denise. It's a different group, but they are also very thorough in terms of checking out greys and might also be able to help.

 

I don't know where you are located - Sydney or elsewhere. If you're in Sydney, a group of us on the greyhounds as pets facebook page try to get together regularly to run our dogs at St Ives dog park (a bit of a hike but fully fenced and worth the trip). Otherwise, there's also a group there in the Illawarra who you could make contact with.

[greysmom]

All good advice above. Please also look into getting yourselves some professional help. Any sort of aggression can be tricky to handle and you don't want it to get out of hand.

 

I will offer another perspective, just for contrast. We had already had several greyhounds and we were familiar with the breed and their characteristics when we adopted Toni. She was a four year old racer who retired with a broken hock. We actually got to meet her racing owner and found out Toni was the favorite in the kennel and was basically a spoiled brat. We worked (and continue to work) long and hard to keep her from being a dog bully to the rest of our pack (4 other greyhounds, both younger and older than her).

 

Toni is very possessive and very jealous. She is a resource guarder and had sleep aggression. No other dog can receive attention from my husband and me without Toni wanting some too. She also barks and growls and snaps all the time. This is her normal mode of communication. She does it when she's happy. She does it when she plays. She does it when she wants a treat. She does it when you pet her on her bed. It's not aggression, it's communication. There is a distinct difference in her sound and body language between her "talking" and her being aggressive.

 

This trait has gotten MUCH better in the four years we've had her - through lots of training and positive reinforcement. We always have to be careful with her and monitor her interactions closely so she doesn't get too excited. Keeping her calm is a key for her. We use her muzzle a lot. We use positive reinforcement and treats (she is completely food motivated), and we "trade-up" for anything we know she considers high value. We have taught her commands to help her impulse control - off (of anything), wait (like stay), stop (stand still where you are), paws on the ground (no jumping), watch me (to focus her), and settle down (just like it sounds). We use different words for commands withToni since we have to say them so often and the other four dogs don't need them.

 

I say all this to illustrate that not every growl or snap or bark is a "bad" thing. The situation for each incident and your dog's personality and your ability to read both correctly and consistently can make a big difference. A good behaviorist can help you with this, and help you and your dog work through these issues safely.

[greyhead]

I think this is all good advice, but first I would rule out anything medical before attacking the behavioral. If the dog is having a medical issue it may not be in the right frame of mind to deal with people.

This. And speaking from experience, make sure they do a good check of the thyroid. In a related vein, does she go for walks with you? I ask because another clue for us with our hypothyroid dog was that he started to tire after a half-mile of walking.

[MaryJane]

I don't pretend to know all the "ins and outs" here but, it seems like this is happening more often as she is getting settled so ... IMHO, she is testing boundaries. This usually happens after a dog has been in a home approx from 3 to 6 months and it is a process where they are trying to establish themselves in the pack pecking order. It is likely to mean that she is feeling comfortable ... maybe TOO comfortable.

 

If you have not been walking or feeding the dog - you need to start. When you walk the dog, walk with a tight leash with a purpose for about 10 minutes and then loosen up a bit so she can smell for a minute or two and then back to a tight leash and walk for another 10 minutes. Also, you should start feeding her occasionally so she starts to associate you with food. You may want to take her to training classes by yourself.

 

Don't let her up on the furniture (either the bed or couch) - if she gets up, put the leash on her and tell her "OFF" and use the leash to get her off.

 

Not to high jack the thread--I just feel a more precise interpretation in your response of what's going on could change the approach in a more productive way; so rather than saying "testing the boundaries", which interprets the dog's behavior as more proactively aggressive, I would use the words "being confused as to where she stands". This has a much more passive feel to it. Dogs hate nothing more than not knowing what the rules are, which can lead to aggression out of frustration--not because they want to dominate everybody else. Understanding this leads to taking responsibility for our own behavior so we can become clear to the dog what we want it to do, rather than becoming frustrated with the dog (who will be able to sense the frustration and get even more confused), or coming on too strong when all that is needed is clarity.

 

I am NOT saying anybody's frustrated or doing wrong things to this dog--all I'm saying how we phrase things is really important.

 

 

Actually, I phrased it exactly the way that I meant it .....

[christinepi]

I don't pretend to know all the "ins and outs" here but, it seems like this is happening more often as she is getting settled so ... IMHO, she is testing boundaries. This usually happens after a dog has been in a home approx from 3 to 6 months and it is a process where they are trying to establish themselves in the pack pecking order. It is likely to mean that she is feeling comfortable ... maybe TOO comfortable.

 

If you have not been walking or feeding the dog - you need to start. When you walk the dog, walk with a tight leash with a purpose for about 10 minutes and then loosen up a bit so she can smell for a minute or two and then back to a tight leash and walk for another 10 minutes. Also, you should start feeding her occasionally so she starts to associate you with food. You may want to take her to training classes by yourself.

 

Don't let her up on the furniture (either the bed or couch) - if she gets up, put the leash on her and tell her "OFF" and use the leash to get her off.

 

Not to high jack the thread--I just feel a more precise interpretation in your response of what's going on could change the approach in a more productive way; so rather than saying "testing the boundaries", which interprets the dog's behavior as more proactively aggressive, I would use the words "being confused as to where she stands". This has a much more passive feel to it. Dogs hate nothing more than not knowing what the rules are, which can lead to aggression out of frustration--not because they want to dominate everybody else. Understanding this leads to taking responsibility for our own behavior so we can become clear to the dog what we want it to do, rather than becoming frustrated with the dog (who will be able to sense the frustration and get even more confused), or coming on too strong when all that is needed is clarity.

 

I am NOT saying anybody's frustrated or doing wrong things to this dog--all I'm saying how we phrase things is really important.

 

 

Actually, I phrased it exactly the way that I meant it .....

 

I realize that. What I should have written was to suggest to look at the issue from a different angle.

[Guest nickyb]

Hey guys thanks for all the advice. It's good to know other people have had these issues and managed to resolve them - @Brandiandwe we're in marrickville about to move to bondi.

[Brandiandwe]

Check up the Facebook site then and I'll try to tee up a meeting and run for this Sunday. There are also quite a few other hounds in the inner city so fb might also let you connect with them.

 

 

[racindog]

The snarkiness appears to be progressive so it may be something physiological is causing it. I think I'd have the vet check everything out.

Bone guarding and sleep startle are par for the course with many of them, lunging and snapping after being petted is not.

You've done a wonderful thing giving this dog a home, but please understand that not every rescue dog gets to make it.

I don't know and of course it is very unlikely but when you said about her so suddenly going after you after rubbing her belly and loving on her etc. Well my Minny went after me pretty good one day in a similar senario and would fairly viciously attack out of the blue without seeming provocation or any triggers. He was a great boy though had the kindest heart I've ever known and I will be indebted to his love and understanding forever for getting me through the crossing over of my soulmate Slim. It wound up Minny just had to be muzzled pretty much 24/7. It didn't bother him at all and it just wasn't safe for other dogs and peeps if he wasn't. I just called them brain farts-those aggressive episodes- I knew it was something with his brain he didn't have any control or even knowledge of what had happenned after one of those incidents. I now believe it was the result of a slow growing brain cancer because days before he turned nine his brain short circuited completely and threw him into irrecoverable seizures and neurological damage. Vets said bain cancer but they wern't sure exactly what kind. It was so sad. He was incredibly unbelieveably smart and had more empathy than anybody I've ever known. But that part of his brain that worked his body just was diseased. None the less Minny's soul is among lions now. I would have her muzzled at least until I got a better understanding on what is going on unless it causes her undue distress but you've got to protect yourself regardless.

[Batmom]

This is very common behavior for an uncertain dog. Not likely to be a brain tumor or anything else physical.

[greysandmollie]

Just curious...has she exhibited any aggression to your girlfriend?

[Guest FastDogsOwnMe]

I have nothing to add that has not been said, but I wanted to say you're a gem for even tolerating this and for working so hard with her. I hope it works out, and if it doesn't, she was very lucky to have such caring people. Please know that most hounds are not nearly so difficult!

[Guest nickyb]

Just to update.

 

So we took her to obedience classes - she did pretty well and at least knows 'on your mat' and 'lay down' now (her recall is apalling but we're still working on it).

 

But we're still having a problem with aggression - and it's towards my girlfriend as well as me.

 

There are definite triggers which we're trying to avoid - standing over her on her mat, food, large groups of people and food - but as we avoid one set of scenarios another pop up.

 

We have moved in together now and while she was fine the first week we think separation anxiety may have reared it s ugly head - she howls when we go out. She started beging agressive again in the second week:

 

She stole a plastic wrapping out of the bin and growled at me when I went near her.

She growled at me when I went to walk past her in the corridor

She grolwed at my girlfriend when she tried to put a leash on and when she tried to put her coat on.

We had people over and were standing in the kitchen - she growled at them.

She growled at me in the hallway when I asked her to move out of the way.

 

We bought her a pheramone collar to try and chill her out a bit (one of the ones for separation anxiety) but then took it off as we thought that might have been the problem. We had a chilled out weekend and the dog behaved impeccably - (I've been hand feeding her and trying to desensitize her space issues -gentle stroking with treats for a couple of minutes a day on her mat ) then this morning I was in the kitchen corridor and the dog walked up to me, I stroked the top of her head and she growled and snapped at me - then more growling when I tried to get past her a few minutes later.

 

We're both at a bit of a loss and my girlfriend (who the dog is most bonded to) now feels quite wary of her, which is horrible for everyone.

 

This morning's incident was after I'd just taken her out for a walk, and the only thing which I thought might have triggered it was that she suddenly lunged in front of me while we were out to try and chase a bird, I tripped over her and accidentally trod on her paw (she yelped and I felt horribly guilty). Could that have triggered it? In which case are we back at square one?

 

We're getting a behaviourist in this week.

 

PS - there are loads of cats around the new place - she's very cat tolerant - next door's moggie Brian rules the neighbourhood and while we've kept my cat separate to Macy, Brian has popped in a couple of times for a surprise visit and there's been no drama.