Guest buttonwillow Posted May 23, 2012 Share Posted May 23, 2012 (edited) Took Josie in to the dentist today. She needs a cleaning, because I have not been good enough about brushing her teeth (I have learned my lesson). The doctor heard a heart murmur "on the left" and sent her upstairs to the cardiologist, who did xrays. They're going to look more closely at the xrays today but the dentist mentioned that her heart was slightly enlarged. "It could be nothing," he said... He has experience with greyhounds and told me all about the anesthesia issue (he agrees with the Suzanne Stack article at http://www.greyhound-data.com/dir/392/Greyhound_Anesthesia.pdf.) He explained very carefully and politely to me why I need to brush Josie's teeth on a daily basis and that if I had done so, she may not have needed this cleaning I finally really get it and am angry at myself for being so selfish and lazy and not brushing her teeth enough. I know that greyhounds have bigger hearts than many other breeds, but it seems like the dentist is familiar enough to know this. I'm worried about cardiomyopathy because I had a cat die of it once (I know, totally different, but ) That's all. Just worried. I should hear more soon. The cleaning will be in 2 weeks if all is well. (edited to say she is otherwise healthy, no coughing or breathing problems) Edited May 23, 2012 by buttonwillow Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Batmom Posted May 23, 2012 Share Posted May 23, 2012 Fingers crossed it's just greyhound-ness. Don't beat yourself up so. Brushing teeth helps but dang, I brush *my* teeth and still need a cleaning every 6 months, you know? Quote Star aka Starz Ovation (Ronco x Oneco Maggie*, litter #48538), Coco aka Low Key (Kiowa Mon Manny x Party Hardy, litter # 59881), and mom in IllinoisWe miss Reko Batman (Trouper Zeke x Marque Louisiana), 11/15/95-6/29/06, Rocco the thistledown whippet, 04/29/93-10/14/08, Reko Zema (Mo Kick x Reko Princess), 8/16/98-4/18/10, the most beautiful girl in the whole USA, my good egg Joseph aka Won by a Nose (Oneco Cufflink x Buy Back), 09/22/2003-03/01/2013, and our gentle sweet Gidget (Digitizer, Dodgem by Design x Sobe Mulberry), 1/29/2006-11/22/2014, gone much too soon. Never forgetting CJC's Buckshot, 1/2/07-10/25/10. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest buttonwillow Posted May 23, 2012 Share Posted May 23, 2012 Fingers crossed it's just greyhound-ness. Don't beat yourself up so. Brushing teeth helps but dang, I brush *my* teeth and still need a cleaning every 6 months, you know? Thanks Batmom.... you know how it is, we just adore her, she is such a wonderful dog, she deserves to be well cared for. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
racindog Posted May 23, 2012 Share Posted May 23, 2012 Try Petz-Life spray. I have been using it for quite a while on my pack now. Just spray about 5 sprays on their toofers before bedtime a couple of nights a week and to be honest I havn't had to brush them and they look better than they ever did and don't need to get the vet cleaning-honest injun'! The stuff is amazing. Sorry your girl is going through this. Hope its just a greyhound thing like the other poster said. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MP_the4pack Posted May 23, 2012 Share Posted May 23, 2012 (edited) Don't fret about the heart. My Pearl was diagnosed with valvular disease and she lived (with a plethura of meds) for 7 yrs after diagnosis. She also had uncontrolled hypertension. She died at age 12 of cancer. You have a cardiologist. Have regular checkups with that doctor and she could live for years with heart disease. However, do keep up with the teeth. Bad teeth can cause more problems with the heart. Edited May 23, 2012 by MP_the4pack Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest buttonwillow Posted May 23, 2012 Share Posted May 23, 2012 (edited) Here is the report: HISTORY: pre-anesthetic check, 1-2/6 left holosystolic murmur, not clinical, normal activity ******************************* THORAX 5/23/12: 2 views are provided. FINDINGS: There is mild generalized cardiomegaly. The pulmonary vasculature is normal in size. The pulmonary parenchyma is unremarkable. There is no evidence of pulmonary soft tissue nodules, intrathoracic lymphadenopathy, or pleural effusion. No other significant abnormalities are seen. CONCLUSIONS: Mild generalized cardiomegaly without evidence of failure. Otherwise unremarkable thorax. RECOMMENDATIONS: EKG, echocardiography, and consultation with a cardiologist are recommended for further evaluation of the cardiac disease and to direct appropriate therapy if indicated. So I need to call for an appt now for a cardiac eval... I'm glad whatever it is, is mild... if it is something, maybe we can improve it.... Edited May 23, 2012 by buttonwillow Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest june Posted May 23, 2012 Share Posted May 23, 2012 Glad to hear it isn't anything serious. I am dealing with recent onset heart issues with one of mine and it is very scarey. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sweetdogs Posted May 23, 2012 Share Posted May 23, 2012 I would give OSU a jingle. Do you have xrays you could send? Pretty sure Dr. C said.this is the number one question they get through the Wellness program. Almost always normal greyhound heart. :-) Quote Deirdre with Conor (Daring Pocobueno), Keeva (Kiowa Mimi Mona), & kittehs Gemma & robthomas. Our beloved angels Faolin & Liath, & kittehs Mona & Caesar. Remembering Bobby, Doc McCoy, & Chip McGrath. "He feeds you, pets you, adores you, collects your poop in a bag. There's only one explanation: you are a hairy little god." Nick Galifinakis Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest buttonwillow Posted May 23, 2012 Share Posted May 23, 2012 I would give OSU a jingle. Do you have xrays you could send? Pretty sure Dr. C said.this is the number one question they get through the Wellness program. Almost always normal greyhound heart. :-) Hm, I'm sure I could ask for copies of the xrays. Do they really do consultations like that for strangers in different states? Glad to hear it isn't anything serious. I am dealing with recent onset heart issues with one of mine and it is very scarey. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sweetdogs Posted May 23, 2012 Share Posted May 23, 2012 You're not a stranger - you have a greyhound! They absolutely do consultations for any hound through the Greyhound Health & Wellness Program. Might save you a trip to the cardio. Quote Deirdre with Conor (Daring Pocobueno), Keeva (Kiowa Mimi Mona), & kittehs Gemma & robthomas. Our beloved angels Faolin & Liath, & kittehs Mona & Caesar. Remembering Bobby, Doc McCoy, & Chip McGrath. "He feeds you, pets you, adores you, collects your poop in a bag. There's only one explanation: you are a hairy little god." Nick Galifinakis Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tbhounds Posted May 24, 2012 Share Posted May 24, 2012 I would give OSU a jingle. Do you have xrays you could send? Pretty sure Dr. C said.this is the number one question they get through the Wellness program. Almost always normal greyhound heart. :-) Yup- Dr Couto answers this question many times over. 1 or 2/6 left sided murmur- its a gh thing. It's a flow murmur. Basically you have a big athletic heart with 'normal' dog valves--the murmur that's heard is the swirling of the blood within the chamber waiting to scoot through the valve. Obviously follow through with your vet but, yes, absolutely consult with Ohio State. You may even be able to google Dr Couto greyhound heart murmurs. Pretty sure there may be a link on the greyhound health and wellness program website (sorry I'm on my phone or I would link it for you). Hope this helps. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kronckew Posted May 24, 2012 Share Posted May 24, 2012 (edited) a grey's heart compared to another breed of the same general size would normally be a bit larger. is the cardiologist comparing it to dogs in general or already oversized greyhound hearts? that's why a consult thru dr. couto would set you mind at ease. the greyhound health packet is a good read & can be printed out for your vet/cardiologist. if they haven't seen many grey, it may help. a quote from it: Many Greyhounds can have mild heart enlargement and a mild heart murmur that can be normal. If your veterinarian hears a heart murmur, it is always a good idea to take a chest x-ray. If there is some left atrial enlargement (a chamber of the heart) then an ultrasound of the heart (echocardiogram) would be necessary and should ideally be conducted by a cardiologist. If only mild generalized heart enlargement is noted, then it is likely normal for the breed and additional testing may not be necessary. The heart murmur can be described as systolic (not holosystolic), loudest over the left base, and likely a grade I or grade II. Edited May 24, 2012 by kronckew Quote Regards, Wayne KronckeCAVE CANEM RADIX LECTI ET SEMPER PARATUSVegetarians: My food poops on your food. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
joejoesmom Posted May 24, 2012 Share Posted May 24, 2012 Just wanted to post the info for contacting OSU: https://greyhound.osu.edu/consultationservice/ There is no charge but they always welcome donations. From the Frequently asked questions section of the OSU GHWP website: Greyhounds are known to have "normal" athletic or physiologic flow murmurs. These murmurs are mild in nature (grade 1 or 2 out of 6) and are heard best over the left base of the heart (high in the armpit). Thoracic radiographs (X-rays) and/or echocardiography (ultrasound) will help determine the actual status of the heart. Technical article on heart murmurs in Greyhounds: https://ckm.osu.edu/sitetool/sites/greyhoundpublic/documents/FAQ/MurmurGreytPaper.pdf Most of this article talks about heart murmurs, but the last page talks about the slightly enlarged heart common in greyhounds. Without knowing if your vet compared her heart size to other greyhounds, it is impossible to say if the enlarged heart he mentioned is normal or not. If you do submit a consultation request, you would want to attach the thoracic x-rays (your vet can email them to you, as long as he used a digital machine). Jane Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest june Posted May 24, 2012 Share Posted May 24, 2012 (edited) My vet is consulting with OSU. Here is the website link for the Greyhound Wellness Program. They will respond to individuals and vets. https://greyhound.os...ltationservice/ Sorry, I didn't see that someone already posted this. Edited May 24, 2012 by june Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest buttonwillow Posted May 25, 2012 Share Posted May 25, 2012 THANK YOU !!! thank you all. I have requested the radiographs from the doctor and will send them to OSU. I think she's probably a normal greyhound! I appreciate all your information and links, this is so helpful. I will be joining the OSU program tomorrow! I'll keep you up to date on Josie's issues as well. Right now she seems very happy and content snuggling up with the cat Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tbhounds Posted May 25, 2012 Share Posted May 25, 2012 OSU rocks- hope you receive good news from them- keep us posted! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest june Posted May 25, 2012 Share Posted May 25, 2012 Keeping you in our prayers. june Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest buttonwillow Posted June 1, 2012 Share Posted June 1, 2012 So we did go to the cardiologist and spent $600 to find out that Josie has a normal greyhound heart... Her dental is on Tuesday. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tbhounds Posted June 1, 2012 Share Posted June 1, 2012 Glad to hear it-- keep us posted after the dental!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest bernadette Posted June 2, 2012 Share Posted June 2, 2012 ButtonWillow- I JUST went through the same thing this week. $698 to find out that my vet doesn't know what a greyhound heart sounds like. I know your pain very well... Yes, we're glad that their hearts are ok, but maybe a little (more than a little..?) miffed that if out vets were more knowledgeable about the animal they're treating, we would have that $600-$700 to put towards something useful- like a dental. Grrrrr...! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest buttonwillow Posted June 2, 2012 Share Posted June 2, 2012 ButtonWillow- I JUST went through the same thing this week. $698 to find out that my vet doesn't know what a greyhound heart sounds like. I know your pain very well... Yes, we're glad that their hearts are ok, but maybe a little (more than a little..?) miffed that if out vets were more knowledgeable about the animal they're treating, we would have that $600-$700 to put towards something useful- like a dental. Grrrrr...! Exactly. That dental won't be cheap! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JJNg Posted June 2, 2012 Share Posted June 2, 2012 While I understand it's frustrating to spend so much money to find out your dog is normal, I personally think in a case like this, it's money well spent for peace of mind. Yes, normal greyhounds can have mild heart murmurs, and their hearts can often look larger on x-rays compared to other dogs. But a greyhound with a mild heart murmur and a slightly enlarged heart really could have heart disease too. The only way to confirm whether the heart is functioning normally is with an ultrasound (echocardiogram). If one of my greyhounds showed the same signs, I wouldn't hesitate to take them to the local cardiologist for an echo before putting them under anesthesia. Quote Jennifer & Willow (Wilma Waggle), Wiki (Wiki Hard Ten), Carter (Let's Get It On), Ollie (whippet), Gracie (whippet x), & Terra (whippet) + Just Saying + Just Alice Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Charlies_Dad Posted June 2, 2012 Share Posted June 2, 2012 While I understand it's frustrating to spend so much money to find out your dog is normal, I personally think in a case like this, it's money well spent for peace of mind. Yes, normal greyhounds can have mild heart murmurs, and their hearts can often look larger on x-rays compared to other dogs. But a greyhound with a mild heart murmur and a slightly enlarged heart really could have heart disease too. The only way to confirm whether the heart is functioning normally is with an ultrasound (echocardiogram). If one of my greyhounds showed the same signs, I wouldn't hesitate to take them to the local cardiologist for an echo before putting them under anesthesia. Agreed. This is what occurred to us. Jack had a murmur and a enlarged heart. We thought this was 'normal' for a Grey however then he went into CHF several months later and now is somewhat stable 5 months later. It will however most likely end his life way too early as he is not nine yet and his coughing is becoming more frequent and his heart beats are all over the place, not normal at all. We are loving on him as much as we can but do think 2012 may be our unlucky year as we lost Charlie in April and I just don't know whether Jack will make it through year and Shelby just turned 13. Quote Kyle with Stewie ('Super C Ledoux, Super C Sampson x Sing It Blondie) and forever missing my three angels, Jack ('Roy Jack', Greys Flambeau x Miss Cobblepot) and Charlie ('CTR Midas Touch', Leo's Midas x Hallo Argentina) and Shelby ('Shari's Hooty', Flying Viper x Shari Carusi) running free across the bridge. Gus an coinnich sinn a'rithist my boys and little girl. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest buttonwillow Posted June 2, 2012 Share Posted June 2, 2012 Agreed. This is what occurred to us. Jack had a murmur and a enlarged heart. We thought this was 'normal' for a Grey however then he went into CHF several months later and now is somewhat stable 5 months later. It will however most likely end his life way too early as he is not nine yet and his coughing is becoming more frequent and his heart beats are all over the place, not normal at all. We are loving on him as much as we can but do think 2012 may be our unlucky year as we lost Charlie in April and I just don't know whether Jack will make it through year and Shelby just turned 13. Am so sorry. I lost a heart cat to CHF and I'm very sorry about your Jack. I am sure he will have a happy life with you, long or not so long. Skritch both your puppies for me... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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