Will Not Gain Weight

[jaym1]

So, I've had a couple threads in the food/dietary forum, but I'm going to move this over here, since it's obviously a medical problem. I've had my 4.5-year-old greyhound for six months. He came to me thin (he is a large dog, but weighs only 68 lbs.), with a tapeworm infection, very soft stools, and a terrible coat. I got him almost right off the track. He absolutely will not put on weight. For a brief while, after switching foods many time, I switched him to the green bag Iams, and he flourished for about three weeks, producing small, perfect stools and gaining weight very quickly, before leveling off, and going back to soft stools and 68 lbs. I also found that during that time the women who walk him had been giving him milk bones, which I feel may have restarted his problems, but he's been without them for many weeks now, with no improvement.

 

He is healthy and energetic. His coat, over the past months, has become lustrous and beautiful. But his stools are back to being soft, and sometimes large. They are no longer pale in color or acrid, but I can tell something is not right.

 

Here is the pertinent medical info (prescriptions, tests, etc.)

 

-Full blood panel: all normal, including pancreatic functions, etc.; full liver check (x2), both normal

-Prescriptions: two three day courses of panacur, twice dewormed with drontal; flagyl doesn't make much of a difference. Same for tylan. he is also on 10 mg/day of fluoxetine for his SA

-Additives: have used prozyme and psyllium husk powder in his food. the psyllium holds his stools together somewhat, but theyre still soft.

-Foods: Natural balance venison and sweet potato (didnt tolerate), taste of the wild lamb (no improvement), holistic blend (no improvement), iams green bag (huge, immediate improvement, weight gain, good stools before leveling off and going back to square one)

 

The next step is an ultrasound, then possible an endoscopy, though I hope to avoid that. He does not have diarrhea, and has perfect control over his bowels. He has a tremendous appetite, and inhales his food. He has also started eating dried poop on occasion at the dog park. But he simply will not gain weight, and won't produce good stools. I know he's capable of both, because I saw that happen for a brief while when we switched to Iams.

 

Anyone have any ideas? He's not deathly thin, but he is definitely too thin.

[jaym1]

here are some current photos. some look more or less severe depending on the lighting. but in general his hip points are more than present, ribs visible, and at least four or five vertebrae are prominent. i should also mention, in case anyones wondering: he does not get any treats that arent his own kibble.

 

Edited April 7, 2012 by jaym1

[Charlies_Dad]

Out Jack looks very similar to your pup. He will not gain weight unless we stuff cooked pasta and potatoes into him which we prefer not to feed him. We do make our own dog food but we do not wish to stuff him with carbs. Jack's ribs and backbone show and we had him at a good weight of 74lbs (on the pasta potato 'diet') however he always seems to drop to 68-69lbs. He eats well and never turns away from his food but I guess it's his nature to be a 'thin' Grey so while we would like him to add a couple pounds we are not overly concerned about it. From the pics you posted, only the third shows his backbone which I agree would be nice to not show 2-4lbs will do that. Otherwise the other pics do not look bad IMHO.

 

I know very little useful advice...

Edited April 7, 2012 by Charlies_Dad

[BauersMom]

A few thoughts - how long ago was the last time he was wormed (or a fecal run)? It might be worth re-treating, just in case, esp. if he's eating dog park snacks.

 

Have you tried a course of home cooked, with limited ingredients? Usually if dogs don't improve with a straightforward home-prepared diet, I usually start looking for medical reasons over food-related causes (not always fool-proof if you are dealing with a food intolerance, but a starting point...)

[greyhead]

A great thing to do would be the TLI test for cobalamin and folate. Whether those levels are normal or not will indicate whether there is Intestinal Malabsorption and whether there may be a disease process in the small intestine or the large one. Especially when the dog is eating poop as a new behavior, it suggests, along with his weight problem and soft stools, that he's not getting the full benefit of his food.

 

We did ultrasound on our dog after the positive TLI and also after a fecal culture revealed an infection (SIBO) with Clostridium perfringens. Treatment of the infection hadn't entirely resolved his problems, and the ultrasound did a great job of showing the structural changes that had taken place in his intestines, amounting to IBD. It also showed the exact location of the problem, near where the small and large intestines meet, such that no endoscope could have even reached that area. Ultrasound is non-invasive and doesn't require anesthesia.

 

Best of luck to you and your skinny pup. He's adorable.

 

ETA: Just checked a former thread of yours where vet already tested for IM. I didn't have a chance to read the whole thing through, but I think a stool culture possibly followed by ultrasound would not be a bad idea. It took months before Spencer's SIBO changed from soft yellow poop to diarrhea, by which time he'd developed IBD also (probably due to damage from the long-undiagnosed SIBO on top of earlier hookworm damage).

Edited April 7, 2012 by greyhead

[TwiggysMom]

From the photos you posted, he looks perfect to me (but I'm of the camp that likes to keep them as close to racing form as possible). However, that doesn't help you at all in regard to the soft stools. I definitely agree that long-term soft stools aren't what you are striving for.

 

For what it's worth, I've found that a lot of dogs have very high metabolisms straight from the track, and that seems to last up to a year post-retirement. It can be very difficult to get them to gain weight during that period (for some of them, at least).

 

If you are actively trying to put weight on him, maybe you are feeding him more than his current weight would normally require. That of itself can cause large, soft stools.

 

I might be tempted to see if by feeding him less, his stool normalizes; and then over time, the weight slowly starts to accumulate.

 

You've been very proactive about getting him medically checked out, and since the tests indicate that he's healthy, I'd be leaning toward just giving him some time and maybe to back to a smaller amount of the green bag Iams, since that is what's worked best for him in the past. The only other thing I can think of is a persistent case of hookworms (which can be difficult to find in a fecal, and very difficult to get rid of).

 

One other thing I've used with great success in at least one hound - dietary enzymes (Digest-All is the brand I used, I imagine other brands would work fine as well). This took a dog who had constant diarrhea to regular, solid stool in less than 24 hours, and kept him that way for remaining months that I fostered him. Might be worth a shot.

 

I sympathize, having dealt with a lot of fosters going through similar issues. He is a beautiful boy.

[silverfish]

Wow .. well, he looks in great shape to me. He's not overly bony, and he has good muscle development on his thighs and shoulders, and along his back.

 

Not sure why you'd want to be doing ultrasound or endoscopy if he is happy, shiny and energetic, and his only problems are being a little too lean and having soft stools? What does the vet say? Bearing in mind that many are so used to seeing fat pet dogs that they don't recognise a fit greyhound when they see one.

 

Yes, he's a bit skinnier than most, but he looks alert and happy, and if you say he has developed a glossy soft coat, it's unlikely there's anything major going on, IMHO. Certainly you could add in some high calorie treats between meals if you want to put some more weight on him, but I'd be reluctant to advise you to go for too much more.

 

My Jeffie is a super skinny dog, whose vertebrae are really prominent, as are all his ribs and four pelvic bone bumps: pin bones and iliac crests. He occasionally has soft stools. Sid is a verging-on-overweight dog who occasionally has soft stools. Soft stools can just be a greyhound thing.

 

Jeff got taken to the vet for a full investigation because not only is he super skinny with hardly any development to his long back muscles, but he sometimes has two or three days of throwing up his dinner or being nauseated by it. Nothing shows up and the vet is reluctant (even with the vomiting issue) to do anything more invasive or subject him to a GA (he's ten). She said as long as he has energy, is alert and active and his coat is good - and he's building up muscle through some good amounts of exercise - she just wants us to keep an eye on his weight to make sure he doesn't drop any.

 

What kind of exercise is he getting?

[jaym1]

he has had the cobalamin/folate test, and both were normal. he was dewormed right after i got him with drontal, and again about 3 months ago. his last deworming was done with panacur, and was about two months ago. he has had two fecal tests, both negative, with the final one right before the panacur.

 

its his lack of firm stools in addition to his thin stature that has me worried. he's basically at his racing weight now, so its not like hes dropping weight. but as i mentioned above, i know he's able to produce firm, healthy stools when all is ideal.

[silverfish]

Twiggy's Mom raises a good point, too: overfeeding can cause soft stools. If you're feeding him once a day, you might try splitting the meal into breakfast and dinner. It's the only way we can get enough calories into Jeff without causing vomiting or diarrhoea.

[jaym1]

thanks silverfish and twiggysmom. you both may be right -- i may be overworried. he is my first greyhound, so i suppose that opinions on whether or not i should be worried are also what im seeking out. he gets regular exercise at the dog park, about an hour or more of walker per day on weekends, and 30 to 45 minutes per day on work days.

Edited April 7, 2012 by jaym1

[jaym1]

i should say though that, after about three months, and while nothing seemed to be working, he did at one point quickly drop weight down to a little under 64 lbs, which was definitely way too thin. thats when i got really concerned, and had most of his tests done. he had a second weight drop just after he had stabilized and got up to 74 lbs. all seemed to be going great -- perfect stools, putting on weight -- when, in what seemed like just a week, he dropped back down to 68, where he has now been for some time.

[Tallgreydogmom]

We give our low weight greyhounds a little Dyne Trophy Nutritional Weight Supplement on there kibble. It helps them put on and/or keep the weight on. Your vet should have something like it or your local feed or farm store.

[BauersMom]

i should say though that, after about three months, and while nothing seemed to be working, he did at one point quickly drop weight down to a little under 64 lbs, which was definitely way too thin. thats when i got really concerned, and had most of his tests done. he had a second weight drop just after he had stabilized and got up to 74 lbs. all seemed to be going great -- perfect stools, putting on weight -- when, in what seemed like just a week, he dropped back down to 68, where he has now been for some time.

 

That amount of weight fluctuation, with no other changes to diet, etc, would concern me, so I would certainly continue trying to find a solution. If you were feeding him the same amount of the same food you are now and he had firm stools then, I would doubt it is the amount of food.

 

The fact that he was doing well and now isn't points to something going on. Did IAMs change their formula, perhaps?

 

Good luck

[silverfish]

Bear in mind that most greyhounds drop a little weight when they're first adopted, through the stress of the move. That and frequent food changes - and him picking up on your worry - may possibly be all that's wrong. Relax! If there is something going on, it will become apparent.

 

As TallGreyDogMom says, there are various supplements you can give to help build a dog up properly, not just put on fat (which greyhounds really don't need). We had one called 'Muscle Pro' from the racing kennel, and I think it did help Jeff put on some muscle. With your dog though, I think it's early days to be worrying about that .

[silverfish]

-Foods: Natural balance venison and sweet potato (didnt tolerate), taste of the wild lamb (no improvement), holistic blend (no improvement), iams green bag (huge, immediate improvement, weight gain, good stools before leveling off and going back to square one)

 

So .. to recap, he's had five changes of food in three months, including one which he didn't tolerate well. Is it possible that the big weight drop happened during the period he was being fed Natural Balance venison and sweet potato?

 

If he really did drop six pounds in a week, that would be of some concern if there was nothing happening as a cause for that, but .. even so, if he levels out and is continuing happy and active, and looks well, then personally (and it is just my opinion as a greyhound owner since 1994) I would just keep an eye on him and try not to worry too much unless he begins to be listless and loses condition, not just weight. It is possible that 74lb was actually more than his body wanted to be.

 

If he drops again from 68lb, or shows any other signs of not being in top form, then back to the vet he goes!

[Tallgreydogmom]

he gets regular exercise at the dog park, about an hour or more of walker per day on weekends, and 30 to 45 minutes per day on work days.

 

Just a thought after re-reading this. I don't think your greyhound is use to so much exercise. We find the more active ones tend to always look thin. We would have to carry some of ours back from a half hour walk. Our's are sprinters. They sprint from their beds outside to their potty area. They bang on the door to come in and sprint back to their beds. :lol

[jaym1]

i did change his food several times at the beginning. i transitioned slowly each time, but the foods he was trying were really, really not working. his stools were worse than soft. one of my main concerns was switching too often, but i couldnt find any way around it. his first food (natural balance) was a disaster that got worse over time, and not better. same story for each of them until i got to the iams. there may be something to the amount i have been feeding him, which is now about a cup more per day, split over two meals, than i had been before. i'll dial it back to 3 cups per day and see where that goes.

 

as to the amount of exercise: he has incredible stamina. unless its really hot out, which hasnt been the case here in new england since ive had him, there is basically no amount of walking that tires him out. after about 40 minutes or so, he'll be walking gently at my side, where he might have been leading at the start of a walk. he'll come home and go right to sleep, but the next time i get up to go out, he'll be angling for his leash and ready to go again. the dog park time isnt particularly vigorous. its mostly just strutting behind other dogs, and occasionally dashing around for a few seconds. most of the time is spent accosting the other people he meets for back scratches.

[Burpdog]

Try BilJac frozen. I bet he straightens up. I currently am feeding one meal BilJac frozen and one meal Prairie beef.

 

Brookline Dog Grooming

148 Harvard St Brookline, MA 02446

Frozen Dog Food

617-738-6682You can also mix the BilJac with the current food if you like the current food

[silverfish]

Sounds like a fit, happy guy, this dog!

 

Yeah, sometimes there isn't a way round frequent food changes, if that's what he needs. If he has food intolerances, there can be malabsorbtion issues with them, but on the whole, if he has that much energy and stamina, he's doing pretty well!

[TwiggysMom]

Well, since you've got a high-energy greyhound (they DO exist - I've got one too ), that would, to me at least, indicate a high-metabolism greyhound as well.

 

For reference, my girl Twiggy raced between 66-68 lbs. I tried to put weight on her, got her as high as 63 at one point, and she looked awful(FAT). Since then, I let her stay at 68.5 (well, now 63.5 b/c of her leg amputation). She is now 7 years old, 7 months post-amp, and she still wants to walk for a minimum of an hour per day (more if I'd let her!)

 

The sudden and dramatic weight loss could be alarming, but if he was going from a weight above where he raced (say 5-10 lbs above) at to a weight roughly similar to his racing weight (or at least has stabilized there), I wouldn't be too worried.

 

I think someone else suggested trying a bland diet for a while. (Just ground beef, or chicken, or turkey, plus rice or potatoes). This is fine to feed on its own for a week or so.

 

Sometimes, their systems get out of whack, and can't get back on track on their own, but after firming up on a bland diet, they can then go back to a food that works for them. I would especially do this if you think he might be dehydrated. Since he's just got soft stool, not diarrhea, he may not be dehydrated, but this might help, anyway.

[cleptogrey]

compare your dog w/ felix who just turned 5

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/GHRR/photos/album/666315848/pic/536300520/view?picmode=&mode=tn&order=ordinal&start=101&count=20&dir=asc

 

same amount of ribs and vertabre showing. i think he's in perfect weight, my vet likes dogs a # or 2 thinner. he's 77#, 29" at the shoulders. 4 cups of nutro large breed food and a couple of biskets a day. maybe a kong, that's his diet...boering but it works. have you tried adding plain old white rice to his diet? that will help bind him and add some carbs. but maybe a round or two of flagyl might be the thing he needs to clean his gut up. my first female needed 3 or 4 rounds of flagyl to get her stools in shape. also what heartworm preventative are you using? interceptor worms the dog monthly, that might help. how about a fecal check or two, a lot cheaper and less invasive. if you vet doesn't want to look at the simple things then it might be time to look for one who will check out simple, normal occurances...WORMS, PARASITES, BACTERIA rather than scoping a dog and costing you a fortune.

 

also, any food w/ beet pumace in it helps bind(i guess that's why i'm now having success w/ nutro). their sensitive stomach formular is pretty good as well as the large breed.i went thru erratic stool w/ other "better" brands.

 

don't worry, if his coat is good, he's active and responsive and eats like a horse it sounds like you got yourself one healthy dog. remember some dogs mature slower than others. he has his whole life to gain weight, sloooow and steady.

Edited April 7, 2012 by cleptogrey

[GeorgeofNE]

I think he looks fantastic.

 

Beautiful dog in good condition. I would stop stressing.

 

My dog lost weight when he retired. Now, after four years, he weighs exactly what he weighed when racing--and he's 9 years old.

 

I don't know what the side effects of the medication you have him on are, but is it possible that's what is causing the soft stool? I'd stop ALL additives for a while myself, and only give him his food and his medication. I don't think there is anything wrong with MilkBones myself.

[KF_in_Georgia]

My guys do better on Iams than on other, more expensive foods. I've got a skinny red fawn male like yours--except that mine is old.

 

Which heartworm preventative is your dog on? Different preventatives are better/worse at dealing with worms. (We think we may be dealing with whipworms for my Sam. Only three HW preventatives also prevent whipworms--and two of them are out of production.)

 

Get a calendar and start plotting: see if you can plot out his weight gains and losses, mark his diarrhea blow-outs (hint: check your vet bills for dates you paid for meds or tests). Mark the dates of the food changes. See if you can see a pattern. And let your vet see the calendar, too: some worms have a 3-week life cycle, others have a 3-month one, which is why deworming usually is repeated at those intervals; if treatment for your boy was off by just a week, it might make a difference. Your vet might spot something that's an issue.

 

Also, try a meal right at bedtime. Try even just half a cup. Maybe he can handle the amount of food he's been getting if it's split into three meals instead of two, so that there's less to digest all at once.

[tbhounds]

He looks good too me too! Mine should look so fit. I think you're worrying too much. Things will level out in time. Feed one food- switching too often can cause SIBO. Feed two meals a day-check the back of the bag and feed a touch lower than the recommended amount for his ideal weight.

Also, I have found oral tapeworm de-wormers rather ineffective lately-- may want to ask your vet about administering a praziquantel injection to combat the tapeworm infestation. The injection stings like crazy but, usually one injection resolves the worm burden.

Oh, and congrates on your new edition- glad to hear you drank the greyhound KoolAid!! Welcome!

[cleptogrey]

just reread your post...seperation anxiety! that burns up calories and can get their guts in an uproar- thus the loose stools. i have a good friend who dog has s.a. and no matter what she feeds her and she eats like a horse she can't make her racing weight. also, her stools are always erratic. as long as you don't see bloody stools, don't look! again, as everyone has remarked, he's beautiful and looks great.