Guest BlackandTan Posted March 21, 2012 Share Posted March 21, 2012 As many of you know this is going to be a 2nd posting about this matter... I took everybodies advice from the previous thread and well last night he started at 2am... Whines and barks until we get up to let him out... It wouldnt be so bad but then he wants to eat... I refuse to give in and feed him in the middle of the night...... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kudzu Posted March 21, 2012 Share Posted March 21, 2012 Extinction burst? http://youarenotsosmart.com/2010/07/07/extinction-burst/ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnF Posted March 21, 2012 Share Posted March 21, 2012 What do I know even after having dogs all my life... they just wind you up if you let them. But, Hey, I'm a nice guy really so I'll always take them at face value at first. Peggy is one of those night dogs too and I have to be certain that there is a genuine reason to get up and go outside. So she gets a slice of bread late at night to counter any acid, she gets a drink too and goes out for a pee before going to bed. Elimination sorted and requests to go out ignored unless I hear a grumbling stomach or lots of swallowing to deal with reflux. She could learn the swallowing but hasn't yet. The other night thing for her is invasion by cats that climb over the gate and make it move against the latch - fixing the latch tighter means she seldom hears cats. It is Hedgehogs that are the real Summer problem, she will NOT settle if she knows there is one suffling around out there... maybe they stink .. I don't know. But if let out and she finds one then she will not go back to bed for hours and is best shut in another room. What I'm saying is rule out the genuine reasons to be let out and then make it clear the dog is not going to be let out and can be further excluded. They look for our responses to be consistent. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
XTRAWLD Posted March 21, 2012 Share Posted March 21, 2012 (edited) I didn't see the previous thread, however based on the above, I agree with JohnF. If you have ruled out having to go to the bathroom, for a pee or poop or a runny #2 - I would start ignoring the whining. I don't know if he's crated or not but that might help. Kasey got into wanting to go out in the middle of the night a few years ago. Turns out that was his best time to go out and eat poop. Of course, "it's a dark backyard no one can see me." We started bringing a flashlight out there to see what he was up to because he wouldn't come when called. Hubby went out to go grab him and slipped on the deck when on some wet leaves. END OF STORY. Sending Kasey out there in the middle of the night wasn't worth risking human injury for us, and poop eating was trying to be curbed as it was. We ignored him and in a couple nights he gave up asking to go out. Could he be cold at night? Try a blankie/pj's. Did he have a wonderful bedtime snack? A piece of bread before bed might do the trick if he's hungry. Full bathroom break before bedtime too. After all of the above and if there really is no reason for him to want to go out - perhaps now it's habit for him to cry at 2am - try ignoring and be strong. Edited March 21, 2012 by XTRAWLD Quote Proudly owned by:10 year old "Ryder" CR Redman Gotcha May 201012.5 year old Angel "Kasey" Goodbye Kasey Gotcha July 2005-Aug 1, 2015 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest BlackandTan Posted March 21, 2012 Share Posted March 21, 2012 We treid PJ's, blankets, crate, no crate, bed, couch , floor, our bed..... We have litteraly tried everything...Last night he whined for a bit then chirped then barked as loud as he could... I can ignore him but my wife cant ignore it.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
revamp Posted March 21, 2012 Share Posted March 21, 2012 You need to be willing to sacrifice one or possibly two nights of sleep (and usually a bossy dog is rarely dramatic enough to keep barking past a couple hours at most) in order to have a future of restful, uninterrupted nights ahead of you. Pick your path. Quote ~Amanda Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
XTRAWLD Posted March 21, 2012 Share Posted March 21, 2012 I see earplugs in your future! Quote Proudly owned by:10 year old "Ryder" CR Redman Gotcha May 201012.5 year old Angel "Kasey" Goodbye Kasey Gotcha July 2005-Aug 1, 2015 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest BlackandTan Posted March 21, 2012 Share Posted March 21, 2012 I want to let him go as long as he can.... I need to tell her to go sleep at her parents or something I see earplugs in your future! His bark is so high pitched it cuts through the earplugs Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
revamp Posted March 21, 2012 Share Posted March 21, 2012 His bark is so high pitched it cuts through the earplugs Oh do I know exactly what you are dealing with! Quote ~Amanda Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moneypenny Posted March 23, 2012 Share Posted March 23, 2012 We treid PJ's, blankets, crate, no crate, bed, couch , floor, our bed..... We have litteraly tried everything...Last night he whined for a bit then chirped then barked as loud as he could... I can ignore him but my wife cant ignore it.. One of our foster homes was having this same problem with a new dog. What has worked for her is a small meal before bedtime, now she sleeps all night, don't know if this will work for you or not, they are not giving her a lot, just a good handful of kibble and she seems to sleep better..........good luck! Quote Mom to Emmi (WM Lickety Split) & Asia (Devious Walker)Waiting at the Bridge: Shadow, Willow, Tony, Nina, Reggie, Sunny, Webb, Rosie, Rowdy, Ivy, Smoke & Raina Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BatterseaBrindl Posted March 23, 2012 Share Posted March 23, 2012 I want to let him go as long as he can.... I need to tell her to go sleep at her parents or something I see earplugs in your future! His bark is so high pitched it cuts through the earplugs We also have a high-pitched barker here.....he also used to scratch and paw at us. I know how hard it is to ingnore it, but that is the only way you're going to get through this. Can DW sleep in another room with the door closed until you've got this habit fixed again? Quote Nancy...Mom to Sid (Peteles Tiger), Kibo (112 Carlota Galgos) and Joshi. Missing Casey, Gomer, Mona, Penelope, BillieJean, Bandit, Nixon (Starz Sammie), Ruby (Watch Me Dash) Nigel (Nigel), and especially little Mario, waiting at the Bridge. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest BlackandTan Posted March 23, 2012 Share Posted March 23, 2012 I told her she is going to have to stay at someones house a few nights so I can work with him.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MerlinsMum Posted March 23, 2012 Share Posted March 23, 2012 Another vote for the "ignore button". I know it really, really SUCKS, believe me, I've been there. But Merlin got over it. Responding (even if the response from us was negative) was EXACTLY what he wanted - attention. If you have definitely ruled out a medical issue and you're sure it's behavioral, the only way he is going to give up is if he doesn't get any kind of reaction to his behavior. I'm sorry, Matt. Good luck, and keep us posted. Quote Kerry with Lupin in beautiful coastal Maine. Missing Pippin, my best friend and sweet little heart-healer 2013-2023 Also missing the best wizard in the world, Merlin, and my sweet 80lb limpet, Sagan, every single day. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TwiggysMom Posted March 24, 2012 Share Posted March 24, 2012 Extinction burst? http://youarenotsosmart.com/2010/07/07/extinction-burst/ This is a great article!!! It explains so many things in both people and animals. Also, it really reinforces that (painful as it will certainly be), waiting him out really is the best option for the long term. Quote Wendy with Twiggy, fosterless while Twiggy's fighting the good fight, and Donnie & Aiden the kitties Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheFullHouse Posted March 24, 2012 Share Posted March 24, 2012 I have no advice at all. Saint did this off and on for the whole 7 years he was with us and nothing worked with him either. Quote Judy, mom to Darth Vader, Bandita, And Angel Forever in our hearts, DeeYoGee, Dani, Emmy, Andy, Heart, Saint, Valentino, Arrow, Gee, Bebe, Jilly Bean, Bullitt, Pistol, Junior, Sammie, Joey, Gizmo, Do Bee Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Plygreygirl Posted March 25, 2012 Share Posted March 25, 2012 It's not always the easy way out I would just ask him to knock it off (correction) and then wait it out! I took me a year to get my girl to not jump up every time if moved. Yes she is allowed on the bed that is if she is nice about it. If not she's asked to leave even if it means I have to get up and point out that this is not acceptable behavior. Now fast foward 3 years she snuggles on the cold night so I now have my own personal furry heating source. As others have said I would try a small amout of food and the rest is sounds like is not going to be easy to fix but unless you can come up with a medical reason Looks like you need to give him some more time and lot of patiances on you part. Good luck! Oh and now I have a nose winer! Who lets you know that it's 5:30 and time to get up. Good news is I have move her clock to 6:30 / 7:00 on the weekends but that took a year!!! Still can't figure out why she needs to do this as the minute I get up she's happly lounging in bed while get dressed!! Oh you just got to love our hounds!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Giselle Posted March 25, 2012 Share Posted March 25, 2012 Yes, I agree that it is about extinction. However, the animal technically is not going through an extinction burst *unless* you are talking about the exact moment in time where you ignore it completely and the animal ramps up the barking even more. Only at this point would I consider it an actual extinction burst. Rather, the issue here is not so much about the particular phenomenon of an "extinction burst" but pure and simple learning theory: What you have done, if you've been "giving in" and letting him out, is you've taught him to be persistent. Intermittent rewards (like gambling) are so powerful because they actually increase a behavior's resistance to extinction. In other words, if you reward the behavior only sometimes, the behavior actually gets STRONGER. It will resist extinction. It will become even harder to eliminate completely. So, how do you finally push it over the edge and get him to stop? You must ignore 100%. You must remove the reward for the behavior entirely. Don't look at him. Don't speak a word. Don't budge even a little. Just ignore. Sorry, but that's the only surefire way! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest grey_dreams Posted March 28, 2012 Share Posted March 28, 2012 I too would try feeding him a decent sized snack before bed. My doggies get restless at night if their stomachs are empty. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IndyandHollyluv Posted March 28, 2012 Share Posted March 28, 2012 Wow. Such an informative thread. Extinction burst. Very interesting. You truly have my heartfelt sympathy. While I have not had to endure the barking and "I want to go outside" ritual, I have had two males who would routinely slurp their genitals and lick, lick ... lick, lick, lick (any and all body parts) starting about 3 - 3:30 am. Ay carumba! Drove me freakin' nuts. I think I have been sleep deprived for more years than not! That being said, I don't have any brilliant suggestions but I do feed my puppers three times per day and so supper is typically served between 7:30 - 8 pm. Usually kibble with warmed canned stew food with added vegetables - which I think is probably filling and satisfying. Then last potty call at bedtime (approx 10:30 - 11:30 pm). Seems to work fairly well, for the most part. Occasionally, one may have a less than silent night. I do cover with blankies because I find a cold dog tends to be a restless dog. I feel for you. I hope you are able to negotiate a peace agreement with Diago! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest BlackandTan Posted March 29, 2012 Share Posted March 29, 2012 Thanks he is a work in progress Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest FastDogsOwnMe Posted March 29, 2012 Share Posted March 29, 2012 I had a foster who did this. I would have adopted him if not for that- but it made all of us crazy and nothing worked. For some odd reason, his new owner has much less issue with it. He does whine and pace some nights, though... I will ask her what she does/has done and how it's going and see if she has any ideas. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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