A Name For What Ails Him

[4My2Greys]

I know this is long, but perhaps others may be helped by this information.

I probably wouldn't have looked into this except Nadir has had another relapse with uncontrolled urination. To be quite honest I was hoping for a simple UTI that could be knocked out with a round of antibiotics. I took him into see the vet yesterday and before they could even get him back to do a sterile draw he voided all over the waiting area floor. When Dr. Carter examined him he did not have the symptoms associated with what he felt was caused by bacterial infection. An ultrasound revealed no stones or masses but showed a thickened bladder wall which he said would indicate inflammation. I explained his past bouts with incontinence, he wasn't his vet at that time, from having an allergy to rice. He feels I should once again try to find the culprit that has triggered this bout of hard to control urination.

I did an internet search for non-bacterial inflammation of the bladder lining and came across several websites giving it the name of Interstitial Cystitis. When I read the information below from one of the websites it all made so much sense. So many of the symptoms listed fell right in line with the major incontinence problem he had several years ago. He was immuno-compromised from the toxoplasmosis, he had an incredibly low t4 thyroid level (I know this in itself is not indicative of thyroid problems), he had blood in his urine, digestive issues, a need to urinate frequently and what I later learned was an allergy to rice. What I thought also was interesting is that patients with IC are 100 times more likely to suffer from IBD, which Nadir does. This and not the NSAIDS, although I still feel they added to the problem, may have been the reason for his IBD. Also interesting is that another website which divides foods into categories of Safe to eat, Eat with caution, and Avoid listed rice under the category of foods to avoid.

Anyway here is information from one website that I found on this problem.

 

 

Interstitial Cystitis (IC) or "non-bacterial cystitis" is known as an immune system breakdown disorder because it typically appears when immunity has been compromised. In IC, the space between the bladder lining and the bladder muscle is chronically inflamed, leading to pain, sometimes severe. Cracks in the bladder wall allow urine to irritate bladder tissue, leading to a breakdown in the lining of the bladder.

 

Interstitial Cystitis is one of those mysterious chronic illnesses that many doctors don't really believe in. The reason being is that when patients get tested for urinary tract infections, more often than not, nothing turns up. Hence the name "non- bacterial cystitis".

 

There is no known cause and no known medical cure for Interstitial Cystitis. There are medical treatments and procedures, such as bladder instillations, hydrodistensions, and the pharmaceutical drug Elmiron, but they only work for a small percentage of people some of the time, and often have strong side effects.

 

IC is considered to be an "immune system breakdown disorder" because it typically appears when immunity has been compromised. It often occurs in tandem with other immune system breakdown disorders, namely chronic fatigue syndrome, fibromyalgia, irritable bowel syndrome, and vulvodynia.

 

In fact, IC patients are 100 times more likely to have irritable bowel syndrome than the general population, and a large percentage suffer from the afore-mentioned disorders as well. This is not surprising, since a compromised immune system can and does affect many areas of the body.

 

Interstitial Cystitis Symptoms

 

IC symptoms typically appear when your immunity has been compromised. The space between the bladder lining and the bladder muscle becomes chronically inflamed, leading to pain, sometimes severe. Cracks in the bladder wall allow urine to irritate bladder tissue, leading to a breakdown in the lining of the bladder.

 

Do you suffer from:

 

pain in the bladder that intensifies as it fills and then goes away upon voiding, only to immediately return again;

breakdown of the bladder tissue, even when infection is not present;

extreme frequency of urination, often every few minutes;

blood in the urine;

digestive problems;

low grade fever;

recurrent vaginal yeast infections;

joint pain and swollen glands;

thyroid problems;

severe food allergies which trigger bladder pain

 

Edited to add website links:

 

http://www.evenbetterhealth.com/interstitial-cystitis.php#step4

 

http://www.ic-diet.com/IC%20Diet%20and%20Food%20List.html

 

I know these websites are written for humans suffering from IC, but they go into more detail than any websites dealing with canines affected by this problem.

Edited December 23, 2011 by 4My2Greys

[MerlinsMum]

Oh my goodness, Judy, it sounds horrible

 

Have you discussed the possibility that it could be IC with your vet? Does s/he think that could be it? Since the treatment is not always effective, and given that the pain it causes can get quite severe, what are the options in terms of pain management for Nadir? Poor boy

 

[4My2Greys]

Kerry I haven't discussed with him my suspicions yet because I only came across this last night after having him at the vet late yesterday afternoon. He is very receptive to listening though so I am going to bring this up. I didn't post everything from that website, but the good thing is that there are ways to control it and remain symptom free. I need to update my OP with the link.

[greysmom]

Smetimes just finding out *what* it is that's the problem can be immensely satisfying. I hope your vet will listen and work with you to help our Nadir!

[kudzu]

I once had a dog with unexplained urinary & GI problems. Urinary problems varied between constant peeing to a complete inability to pee for short times. It was horrid for him. Had all the symptoms of cystitis but without any signs of infections on lab tests. Spent $$$$ trying to find the cause of his urinary difficulties. (No one really bought into his GI probs & all the vets kept coming back to behavioral issues for the urinary probs. The last one sent my boy home from a day of tests with some some amitryptiline. Researching amitryptiline I found the info on interstitial cystitis. Boy was that an eye opener. Who knew humans had similar probs & some of them had physicians who thought they were crazy just as the vets thought I was crazy. Gave my pup the amitryptiline despite my misgivings. He problem started bloating. EEEEE!!! Prompt medical attention prevented disaster there. Later, convincing myself the bloat at that time was coincidence, I tried the amitryptiline again & he started bloating again. No more amitryptiline for that boy. However, I did try some of the other changes suggested for IC. Did it one at a time & started cutting back on how much meat he was getting. (Had been trying raw feeding to aid his GI probs but that wasn't working well anyway.) The urinary probs, which had been getting worse, improved a bit though only enough to put us back at our starting point.

 

Next I tried filtered water. The urinary issued almost completely resolved. It went from problems 4-10 times a month to a few times a year. Changing foods or letting him drink tap water was a sure way to make the probs reemerge. No one believed me except BF & my sister. They saw what happened. A few years went by & he started with hind end weakness which was diagnosed as a lower motor neuron disease, a polyneuropathy. Neurologist didn't believe the urinary issues were related to the neuropathy. He also didn't believe the whole tap water story at first, until... Once I dropped Dan off for another more testing but had forgotten to bring his water but neurologist didn't know that. (I always traveled with either filtered water from home or purchased distilled water if I forgot.) When I went to pick Dan up the neurologist came out with good news & bad news. Good news, MRI was normal. Bad news, something else was now wrong & it appeared Dan was unable to urinate. Neuro described all the symptoms. "Oh," I said, "I forgot to bring his water. Yeah, I know it looks bad but it will go away in the next 24 hours. This is what I've been telling everyone about but no one believed me." Neuro looked at me, jaw dropped open & he said, "OH!" Then he jumped up & ran away. No kidding. Turns out he was running into the back to stop them from prepping Dan for some procedure. They thought he had a urinary obstruction. Neuro was totally shocked to find out I had not been exaggerating the problems & clearly this was not a behavioral issue. It happened one other time & also happened anytime he had anesthesia. Of course, no other vet ever believed him. I actually rather loved that. His just desserts for not believing me to begin with.

 

Then the GI probs got worse until Daniel was bloating multiple times a day. And no I am not exaggerating that. Vets didn't believe that either until he started bloating for no apparent reason in the middle of an appt. Won't go on further except to say in the end it was all shown to be part of his polyneuropathy. It was effecting his entire lower motor neuron system. Not a nerve appeared to be spared & I've got the necropsy report to prove it.

 

It all started with IC. I wish you all the best of luck getting a vet to believe you. Also consider that though it is exceedingly unlikely to be the same problem Daniel D had, it might, just possibly be neurological. Could there be an autoimmune cause? Maybe but Dan's did not appear to be inflammatory at all nor were there other signs of an immune mediated cause. Doesn't mean it isn't with your dog. No vet ever diagnosed Dan with IC as in interstitial cystitis. Eventually it earned the name idiopathic cystitis.

 

Good luck. Truly. It's a miserable thing to deal with.

 

Then the GI issues got worse, to the point where he was repeatedly bloating.

[4My2Greys]

Chris your absolutely right it does feel good to put a name to what it is. I feel that most people on here think I'm some kind of nut trying diagnose issues on my own. I have nothing against listening to vets, but sometimes I think they can be close minded or don't want to pursue something other than the usual. I am happy to say though the vet I use now is very open to taking the time to listen to me. What I like also like about putting a name to it is the ability to learn what other things can trigger an inflammation and things that can be given to support and heal the bladder. One of the things I'm going to look into again is accupuncture as I believe it would be of benefit.

Wow Kudzu it looks like I'm not the only crazy one. You went through quite a lot with that dog. Thank you so much for sharing your experience with it. I'm going to order the book The Healing Path and see what I can learn about managing this disease. One of the things I also do is give my dogs filtered water.

[queenwinniesmom]

Hey, I think the more info you can find, the better. And some vets are receptive to listening. They shouldn't think they are infallible because they're not. No one knows your dogs better than you do, and it does sound like you are on to something. I know it must be frustrating that your sweet boy is having such problems.

Some good thoughts can't hurt either. I wish I had more answers, but since I'm clueless, Lydia and I will keep the good thoughts coming!