Unusual Aggression/biting

[Guest kikilestranger]

We have had our retired racer for a little over 2 months. She is 5 years old, fine with cats and other dogs, doesn't usually display any signs of aggression or defensiveness.

Sometimes, on rare occasions, she will growl lightly if we accidentally bump her feet while on the couch, but she doesn't move or make any other action.

Twice, however, she has snarled and snapped. Only at the male in our household. The first time, we think she may have been partially asleep, so we attributed her reaction to

us not paying close enough attention, and startling her when he tried to lift her out of the car. (She had a habit of not wanting to get out, we've had to lift her out several

times with no incidents before this occasion.)

Then, last night, she had been on the couch with us for a few hours, and she had been in a testy mood. She would growl when we moved and bounced the cushion she was on, or if

our feet accidentally touched her, or even once when I looked at her for too long!

We finally decided that it might be better for her to lay on her bed on the floor. We have had to lift her off the couch and put her on the bed before, he has done this dozens

of times. He started by petting her, and saying nice things, and she was responding well. She was no longer tense, or growling. Then, when he put his arms under her to lift her

up, she snapped, growled, snarled, and bit him. She ended up biting him right under the chin, and we needed to go to the ER for stitches. When we returned, she was her normal,

bouncy happy self, greeting us at the door, and wanting to play.

I have no idea where this behavior stems from - a few of our theories are that she's being protective and territorial about the couch, or she may possibly be in pain somewhere,

possibly her feet since that seems to be the most common place we bump into her.

Does anyone have any experience with this sort of behavior? Is this a trust issue, or a dominance one? Any past experience, training techniques, or advice would be much appreciated!

[Yamaha_gurl]

Most large dogs don't like to be moved, I can do almost everything to mine...but move her and you'll hear it! You'll get some better answers from more experienced memebers...but I simply say, don't move her, call her to her bed, treat in hand, that's how she'll move on her own.

 

What's her racing name?

Edited November 18, 2011 by Yamaha_gurl

[Guest kikilestranger]

Her racing name was "Imanatural". Her retired name is Sophie. She's responding to her name well, and we finally found some treats she likes, but she won't get up off the couch for us unless we're about to feed her.

We had the thought of just feeding her a little of her canned food (because she'll come running for that stuff!) but we weren't sure it would be healthy to give her that much every day?

[GeorgeofNE]

Simple solution is to stop trying to pick her up. Instead try clipping her leash on and saying, "C'mon!" or "Get down" or whatever.

 

I learned the same lesson when I first got George.

 

Sounds like your girl is way too new in the home to be on the furniture at all.

[Guest kikilestranger]

Maybe we just let her up on the couch too soon, then, because we have tried all of the standard things that would come to mind. Treats, food, calling her, leash on, door open, toy squeeking and throwing...everything that gets her excited. Mabye 50% of the time she'll get up on her own, but it seems like when she's tired, and laying down, she wants nothing to do with anything.

Is there a good training tactic to reverse the effect? Now that she's used to being allowed on the couch, is there a way to go back to not letting her up without completely confusing her?

If this is a territorial issue, should we keep her off the couch until she's more used to being with us, and more accepting that we are her "pack leaders" so to speak?

[NeylasMom]

I don't think any dog should get furniture privileges without first being taught an "off" cue. Physically moving a dog from the furniture, especially a new dog who may be inclined to view that space as theirs and theirs alone is just setting your dog up for failure.

 

 

At a time when she's more active, get some really yummy treats - use human food (cooked chicken, hot dogs, that sort of thing, something that is truly high value). Tell her "on" or "up" and toss a treat onto the couch. As soon as she jumps up and eats it (before she has a chance to settle down), say "off" and toss a treat (or a handful if you need to) onto the floor. Repeat 10-20 times (stop if it seems like she's losing her motivation) and then do another session the next day. I would leash her before doing it just in case she decides to lay down on teh couch and won't get off. At least that way you don't have to risk an issue by reaching for her collar.

 

Once she's got that down, then you could start allowing her up. But, I would also suggest that it's invite only, at least for a while. So you call her, ask her to do something (like sit or down) and when she complies, you call her up.

[Tallgreydogmom]

May I suggest you use a lead. Many will get up just seeing the lead in your hand. A lead will give you some safety in case she is not feeling well.

 

I think she needs to spend some time on the floor. She needs to remember you are the alpha. It's nothing personal, she's just giving it a try. They are really just like children with the testing.

 

She sounds like a deep sleeper also. Give her time to wake up. You know how you can be on you feet but really not awake and alert. Same for her.

[Guest Greyt_dog_lover]

Is this your first dog? Just wondering because there may be underlying issues with your behavior with her.

 

The reason I ask is because you seem to be surprised that by "looking at her too long" elicited a growl. Staring at a dog is considered an aggressive act by the dog. Now greyhounds tend to be a bit different in that they actually seem to enjoy eye contact, but believe me, if you do this to a strange dog that you don't know, you will get bit, or at the very least the dog you are staring at will become very agitated and nervous.

 

I would strongly suggest you contact the group you got your hound from and seek help in how to act around your hound. Your hound does not trust you, that is why you are getting the reaction when you try to physically move her. You don't need to do this. If you want her to move, you simply grab onto her collar, and say "UP" in a cheery tone. That or put on her leash and do the same thing. You should never physically grab a dog that you don't have an established bond with, it only sets the dog up for failure. The reason she bit your husband was out of fear. I bet that just before she bit your husband she gave him many signs of her fear, such as the "whale eye" lip curl, tail tuck, etc.

 

I suggest:

1) your hound does not get furniture privileges for a while

2) you enroll in obedience class

3) you immediately start NILF training (do a search on these forums you will find what this means)

 

 

What it sounds like is happening is that your hound is getting comfortable in your home (the growling when you bump her feet), but is not comfortable with you just yet (the snapping when you try to physically move her). These things are not really that difficult to overcome, but it does require training on your part, and consistent treatment by you both. The reason I say to contact your group is because they will have someone that should be able to go over things with you and teach you how to move your hound when/if she becomes stubborn or fearful.

[NevadasMom]

Simple solution is to stop trying to pick her up. Instead try clipping her leash on and saying, "C'mon!" or "Get down" or whatever.

 

I learned the same lesson when I first got George.

 

Sounds like your girl is way too new in the home to be on the furniture at all.

Totally agree with this! Too many privileges too soon. Got to establish your pack order & have her realize that you are Alpha. When you say get down you mean it.

[Guest mariah]

Hi and welcome to the forum! Sorry to hear about that nasty incident, I'm sure that was very frightening for all involved! I hope he's healing well.

 

With any kind of aggression, esp. since you think it could be pain related, the first course of action would be to go to the vet and rule out a medical cause. Does she only show aggression when on the couch, or have you observed it happening at other times? From what you've written, it does sound behavioral, but it's a good idea to look into it.

 

With regard to the behavior itself...I wouldn't approach it as a dominance issue. I do agree that it's too soon. I would wait a few months before considering reinstating couch privileges, but before you do that she definitely needs to reliably obey an on/off command. If she's not at the point where she willingly gives up the couch when asked, she's not ready to be on it.

 

At this point, it's probably too early for her to make a distinction between which resting spaces are considered private, like her bed, and which she should be expected to share with others. Make sure that you establish her bed as a private resting place where she will not be touched or bothered. It sounds like she needs her personal space, so if you're able to do that she'll know that she has somewhere to retreat to when she wants to be alone, and will probably be less inclined to go on the offensive in those types of situations.

 

As a last thought, I'm not sure where you're located, but you might find it worthwhile to schedule a session with a good positive-rewards based dog behaviorist. We had one come to do an in-home consult with us when we first got our first dog, and I found it extremely helpful and informative. Someone like that could give you some really good advice tailored to your situation and dog based on firsthand experience. While you can get a lot of really great advice from people here on the forums, I've always found that the very best advice comes from someone who can actually see the way you and others in the household are interacting with the dog. Obedience classes are a fabulous idea as well.

Edited November 18, 2011 by mariah

[Guest kikilestranger]

Thank you all for the input and advice - a lot of it seems accurate.

This is not my first dog, and yes I know that staring down a dog is a bad idea, but this is my first Greyhound, and from everything I've

heard about the breed, they are much different than most other dog breeds when it comes to their "language".

 

It seems like we've just been too anxious to have a loving, family pet and we let her up on the couch for cuddle time way too early.

We have contacted our adoption rep, and she is getting input from other volunteers. We also have already made an appointment with her vet, just to get

things checked out. As for the training, we really don't have the funds to do that right now, but it really helps knowing at least how to start the

"on/off" training with her. We won't be letting her stay on the couch, probably not until we can afford to get a trainer, and that probably won't

be for another month or two.

 

Thank you all again, this has been very helpful!

[inugrey]

There is a post in soap box that actually lists a lot of great behavior books that benefit even the experienced owner. Take a look at the references after the rant. They are great. I would add Jean Donaldson's book Culture Clash.

 

http://forum.greytalk.com/index.php/topic/279079-im-so-tired-of-the-correction-based-training-advice/

[Guest greymama002]

When we first got our Ruffie, he was just 2, and fresh from the kennel healed from a leg injury that ended his brief career as a racer. He would growl at us ocassionally in particular situations until he learned to trust us. He was especially sensitive when lying on his bed, and particularly to having his feet touched. We didn't want to create any situations that would promote his need to protect his space, so we did not approach him when he was lying on his bed, and always used a muzzle for nail trimming, slipping small treats into it. Soon, when we began putting on the muzzle, he would just lie down quietly so we could trim the nails.

Once a couple of months after we got him, he was on the couch and I was patting him. He seemed fine, and then out of nowhere started to growl. When he did, I clipped on the leash, said "off", and he got right down. I did not allow him on the couch with myself or guests for quite awhile after that.

In time, he has become a very trusting and loving boy. We have had him 3 years now, and I can't remember his last growling incident. He is the biggest snuggle bug on the couch, and tolerates having his feet touched.

 

There have been many good suggestions made already. I just wanted to share how given time, space, and structure, an insecure growling hound can grow into a trusting and loving dog. Best wishes with your Sophie as she blossoms.

[rallyp]

Keep in mind, you don't *need* a trainer to do effective training, so I wouldn't use that as a reason to wait to start. It's really easy, you just need to be purposeful about it. If you have the Retired Racing Greyhounds for Dummies book (by Lee Livingood), it has a short, but excellent, section on how to do clicker training. Drop dead simple and easy. One of the most valuable things about the training is that it's a mean to develop a relationship with your dog. It gives your dog a means to communicate and interact with you and that goes a LONG way to building trust.

[fourofem]

My advice to you would be to jump on this now rather than wait....the longer she can get away with less than nice behavior, the harder it will be to stop it. Listen to Greyt_dog_lover...he helped me so much with a hound that was worse than Sophie. Hard work and determination will get the job done and she'll be a better hound for it.

[krissy]

I agree with those saying you shouldn't wait to start obedience training. You don't need a trainer or to take a class to teach basic obedience. I taught Summit all his basics and then enrolled him in a level 2 obedience class because I wanted to eventually do agility with him. I've never had a dog before I taught him to down, sit, wait, watch me, come, fetch, and roll onto his side all before I ever took him to class. If you've had dogs before you've probably had a trainer or been to a class before so you already know how to teach these basic commands. Just start working on them at home until you can find a class you want to go to.

 

We did level 2 twice. We did it here at home once and then over the summer we were out of town for a few months and I was looking for something to do with him, so we took another level 2 which ended up being a heck of a lot tougher than the original. We haven't done an obedience class since then but I continue to teach him things. Learning is life long.

 

Good luck!