Low Thyroid Causing Anxiety ? Need The Thyroid Lab Normals

[Busderpuddle]

Yesterday I took Ruby in to the vet to talk about her anxiety issues, the Prozac, etc... Her S.A. is much much worse on the Prozac so we are weaning her off. The vet gave me a tranquilizer and wanted me to try it (very small dose) to see if that would help her when we have to be gone. I am actually trying it today since I can keep an eye on her. So far so good, she is just sleeping but that is what she always does when I am here. Going to get out my keys and walk to the mailbox to see if I get a reaction. When I was talking to the vet, I mentioned how several people on here had told me to check her thyroid levels, so he did. He said she didn't look like a hypothyroid dog since she isn't fat and I agreed. He just called and told me that sure enough, she is hypothyroid. Her level was 0.4 and he suggested trying her on a very low dose of thyroid med to see if that helps her and we will check labs again in a month. I mentioned to him about Greyhounds having different lab values that are normal for them specifically and he asked me if I could find out what is normal and let him know. So......here I am, asking the experts (all of you) what normal thyroid levels should be? He still feels this is extremely low. He does have quite a bit of experience with greys but said he can always learn more. I trust him and he has always been open to any info I have. I also had her kidney levels checked because she has had elevated Creatinine in the past and she was just slightly high at 1.7, with 1.6 being normal, but her BUN was normal so he said no concerns there. Thanks for your help.

[Guest Swifthounds]

Normal creatinine in a greyhound can run as high as 2.1 or 2.2.

 

What thyroid test Sid your vet run? If it was just a T4 and not the full panel I would NOT medicate bed on that number. T4 levels can be low as a result of thyroid disease, but also from other illness, or due to stress. I would have. Full thyroid panel run by MSU or Hemopet.

[turbotaina]

There is no "greyhound normal" for thyroid - some test super low, others test in "normal dog" range - but your vet should be aware that greyhounds' T-4 can run very, very low without actually being hypothyroid. Tell him to get a panel including TSH from MSU. Here's their info. For greyhounds, you really need to look at TSH to know if the dog is truly hypothyroid.

 

Good luck!

 

 

[greyhead]

This is a page from Dr. Suzanne Stack about differences in blood work between greys and other dogs. greyhound blood values I personally think that not every greyhound with a T4 that low (.5 is the bottom) is healthy. I agree that you should do a full panel. (One of my dog's T4's was 1 on a range of 1 to 4. We had the whole panel done, and he was hypothyroid.) Not all hypothyroid greys exhibit classic symptoms, such as being fat! They can actually be the reverse! (Same for other breeds and for people.)

 

ETA: MSU uses greyhound values defined so low that they almost never find one hypothyroid. I wouldn't accept their interpretation as the gold standard, though most people do. Just so you know, there are others who agree with me, however few.

Edited April 6, 2011 by greyhead

[Busderpuddle]

Thank you for your replies. I have forwarded the information about the lab values to my vet and will wait for his response. I thought he did a TSH but could be wrong. He ordered a Thyroid panel.

[Burpdog]

Do the thyroid panel at Michigan State. It's not that expensive. I have the forms if you need them.

 

He said she didn't look like a hypothyroid dog since she isn't fat

 

I have no idea why he would think that. Thyroid affects dogs in different ways. They can actually be very thin......

[kudzu]

As others say, Greys really don't have established norms for T4 & are known to run lower that other breeds in thyroid hormones. You need the ful panel. We run a panel through Idexx that they send out to MSU.

 

If that 1.4 your vet thinks is low is T4 you might find this interesting. My girl'y Grey is hypothyroid. On supplementation her T4 is 1.4 & she is doing well. We still do a full panel at times but in general she seems best at 1.3-1.4. My vet doesn't want it any higher.

[Batmom]

Big lot of info here: http://www.animalhealth.msu.edu/Sections/Endocrinology/Thyroid_Canine.php

 

P.S. If she was on Prozac (or anything else) when or within a few days before her blood was drawn, that could affect the results as well. If your vet sends to MSU for a thyroid panel, I would get the premium panel with fT4ed (the most accurate way of measuring thyroid levels) and endocrinologist's interpretation. Your vet should note on the form any drugs the dog is/was recently taking.

[Scooby172]

My grey/whippet mix had a lot of anxiety, full thyroid panel indicated she was hypothyroid. She is currently being treated, her anxiety is much better. It did take a bit to get the right dose for her. I will be interested to see the results of your thyroid panel. Good luck

Linda, Keeva and Bella

[seeh2o]

This is a page from Dr. Suzanne Stack about differences in blood work between greys and other dogs. greyhound blood values I personally think that not every greyhound with a T4 that low (.5 is the bottom) is healthy. I agree that you should do a full panel. (One of my dog's T4's was 1 on a range of 1 to 4. We had the whole panel done, and he was hypothyroid.) Not all hypothyroid greys exhibit classic symptoms, such as being fat! They can actually be the reverse! (Same for other breeds and for people.)

 

ETA: MSU uses greyhound values defined so low that they almost never find one hypothyroid. I wouldn't accept their interpretation as the gold standard, though most people do. Just so you know, there are others who agree with me, however few.

:nod :nod :nod :nod

 

My vet runs thyroid tests through Dr. Jean Dodds @ Hemopet. I really would only accept Dr. Dodds interpretation for thyroid.

[Busderpuddle]

Thank you everyone for your help. She was on Prozac when labs were drawn yesterday. Will pass this info along to my vet and he is doing some research.

[Batmom]

I really would only accept Dr. Dodds interpretation for thyroid.

 

Dr. Dodds' lab isn't able to run the reference method, fT4ed, nor do they run TSH. You really want those for any dog, and particularly for a sighthound.

 

BTW, the reason greyhound T4s can be 0 and be normal isn't due to the dog not producing thyroid hormone. It's because the quantity available for measurement in any dog is an extremely small fraction of the circulating hormone. That's one reason why you want to use the fT4ed method. None of the other methods, including some of the newer ones, work anywhere near as well.

 

You can "interpret" the other methods any way you like -- the tests don't provide useful information. That is done at some labs. It really isn't cost-effective for the owner.

 

You particularly want fT4ed when the dog has had another stressor, an illness, or is on meds for something else.

Edited April 7, 2011 by Batmom

[Batmom]

ETA: MSU uses greyhound values defined so low that they almost never find one hypothyroid.

 

 

That isn't true. MSU doesn't use a specific "greyhound value." They use tests that are more sensitive than other labs to determine thyroid function, and interpret those tests on the basis of a long-established body of research.

 

There are some facilities, Dr. Dodds and NGAP among them, who tend to put a majority of greyhounds on thyroid meds, and who do so without running the best tests available. That's odd and sometimes harmful.

 

 

 

Edited April 7, 2011 by Batmom

[kudzu]

However, one can get the MSU panel done then submit the results to Dr Dodds for review and evaluation. That would give you info from two facilities very knowledgeable in thyroid testing/research. Sometimes it is good to see evaluations from different view points. We've not sent anything to Dodds yet but if my dog were having problems or I was ever in doubt I would not hesitate to do so. Please keep in mind that Dodds has also pulled many a dog off of thyroid supplementation as well, including Greyhounds. AFAIK she is not like NGAP who seems to profess Soloxine be used to treat shy Greys or those with an "Overall feeling of low self-esteem".

[Guest Swifthounds]

However, one can get the MSU panel done then submit the results to Dr Dodds for review and evaluation. That would give you info from two facilities very knowledgeable in thyroid testing.

 

Good advice.

 

AFAIK she is not like NGAP who seems to profess Soloxine be used to treat shy Greys or those with an "Overall feeling of low self-esteem".

 

I haven't found her to be as pro supplement as people suggest. My own Comet's panel was done through her and despite a very low T4 she did not conclude he had a thyroid issue, though I know many vets would.

 

Maybe the dogs at NGAP have low self esteem because they're at the mercy of the political agenda of a man sometimes confused or arrogant enough to believe he can practice veterinary medicine.

[NancyB]

Dr. Feeman posted a greyhound medical pamphlet and I know there was thyroid info in it CLICK HERE

[Busderpuddle]

Thank you everyone. My vet is going to run a few more tests per your guidance. Will see what happens then.