Sleep Startle

[IndyandHollyluv]

I have a question about sleep startle and aggression toward other hounds in the house. I recently searched and reviewed the topic on GT and my first grey had sleep startle issues so I'm not clueless about this problem.

 

At issue: I adopted a 9 yr old boy last year (he just turned 10). He raced then spent his "retirement" as a resident donor at a pet blood bank until he was eight (to the best of my knowledge). I've had much to deal with as, despite being in foster for awhile, he wasn't housebroken, had SA issues, untreated thyroid issues (now on meds), emotionally very puppy-like. I understand why. I get it. Not his fault. I know he spent most of his life in a crate.

 

What I am struggling with is he has some very intense sleep startle such that any movement that falls within his radar when he is snoozing will cause him to bolt out of bed like snarling, frothing Cujo. Seriously. Last fall, he clipped my other old male hound in the eye area (the pointy ends were too close in proximity, I guess. Happened while I was at work. Also occurred pre-thyroid meds). After allowing him free roam of the house I realized he didn't have the life or coping skills to be left out on his own. I now crate him when I am out or at work - which had worked out fine.

 

Last night, my 12 year old female shifted her position in bed and the 10 yr old jumped up totally snarling in her face. Made her cry. She is okay but, in general, has become increasingly wary of him. Understandable. The 10 yr old is very sweet overall and good with me but the sleep startle issues have escalated.

 

Beds are positioned a safe distance apart. I am now concerned for my two older dogs. I will probably now have to crate the 10 yr old at night. This poor soul of a dog got the short straw in life but I have to keep everyone safe (meaning my two 12 yr old hounds).

 

All medical tests, blood work, etc., have come back normal. Just had a dental and pelvic x-rays -- so no medical issues that I am aware of. I also took him to greyhound obedience school last year.

 

For those who have adopted an "older" hound or a long-time blood donor with similar issues -- any advice? any suggestions? any success stories? will this only get worse? Thanks!

Edited March 23, 2011 by IndyandHollyluv

[Guest Jubilee251]

No experience here, but the first things that come to mind are 1) muzzle and 2) X-pen. Also, not knowing how your house or bedroom is set-up, maybe a baby-gate to separate him from the other dogs would be an option as well?

[Guest Greyt_dog_lover]

Just use a babygate and separate the hounds at night so that they cannot get close. Thats what I do with my fosters until everyone gets used to each other, then I take the gate down. That or muzzle your cujo at night. They can sleep in a muzzle, its no issue there. I actually muzzle and babygate fosters for the first month or so to ensure that my kitties are safe. After I trust them a bit, then the muzzle comes off, and a little while longer the gate is down so that if someone wants to snuggle they can.

 

Chad

 

 

Looks like we had the same suggestions

Edited March 23, 2011 by Greyt_dog_lover

[Sambuca]

I agree with the muzzle and separation.

 

A suggestion as to why things are escalating. As they age, their hearing can start to go, so your guy is probably starting to lose his hearing so he doesn't hear anyone coming so when he feels them or suddenly hears them, they are closer than he expects.

 

Another suggestion is to put bells on the other dogs so maybe this guy can hear them sooner.

[Guest june]

God bless you for taking this boy in and being willing to work through this. It is very hard with older dogs who haven't had the benefits of living in a home and as they age so many things can change for them including hearing. I agree with the suggestions already mentioned. Muzzling is a great way to avoid any more bites and separating him from the others at night might actually be a relief for him; It can't be very pleasant for him to wake up that way either. Good luck and keep us posted on how things work out.

june

[greysmom]

You other dogs will learn to avoid him. It's their natural repsonse and I don't discourage it for their own safety. If it looks like they need to pass each other when the "Cujo" is laying down (whether he's sleeping or not) I always say his name, and if I think it's necessary, will stand between the laying-down Cujo and the walking by dog. Make sure no one - dogs or people, esecially children - goes near him unless they are absolutely sure he is awake and aware. Greyhounds can sleep with their eyes open, so be very sure.

 

You might consider setting up x-pens around the beds he uses regulary and encourage him to lay in the enclosure. He actually might feel safer being in a more enclosed area, having been that way most of his life. It's more open and flexible than a crate, and steadier than a baby gate. I've taken one apart so I have several two and three panel sections, which work well in a living room and bedroom setting better than the whole x-pen.

 

He's only nine, so he may work through this in time on his own. Or he may not. My new 10 year old girl is the same way and has snarked at the other dogs at least once fairly seriously, and regularly growls at them. If she's just growling and non of them are really near her, I do correct her. She needs to know that it's not an OK behavior. If she gets stepped on or otherwise has her space invaded, I try and assess each time on it's own merit and treat it accordingly. She's gotten much better than when she first came to live with us.

 

Some people have spent some time throwing balls of socks or soft toys on their space/sleep aggressive dogs to desensitize them to being touched when asleep. Sometimes it works and sometimes it's less successful, but it's something to try.

 

Sleep and space aggression can be successfully managed, it just takes some attention and planning.

[TheFullHouse]

I have three who have space issues, not as severely as your boy has and mine sleep in crates. They actually prefer their crates to sleep in at night because they feel more secure in them. I would let him sleep in his crate. Put it in a corner away from the other dogs so they won't disturb him. Because it's been a way of life for him for so long, it's his security. I think we as humans have more issues with crating dogs than dog do. Granted there are some dogs that absolutely hate crates but there are some who prefer them to sleep in.

[cleptogrey]

I have three who have space issues, not as severely as your boy has and mine sleep in crates. They actually prefer their crates to sleep in at night because they feel more secure in them. I would let him sleep in his crate. Put it in a corner away from the other dogs so they won't disturb him. Because it's been a way of life for him for so long, it's his security. I think we as humans have more issues with crating dogs than dog do. Granted there are some dogs that absolutely hate crates but there are some who prefer them to sleep in.

 

 

well said!

my male has sleep agression issues. even when he was crated at night he would start going crazy in his sleep when the dog next to him moved. why corral the bed in a x-pen? why don't you put his dog bed in a crate and protect everyone? my female shows signs of sleep agression as she isn't allowed up on the couch at night since when she is alseep and someone even turns the page of a newspaper she snaps in her sleep.

she is happy on her bed next to the couch.

he is happy sleeping away from everything!

i do anything to avoid dog bites/fights!

 

my dogs are the variety who prefer to sleep in their crates.

[IndyandHollyluv]

Just wanted to say thank you to everyone for their advice. It's always helpful to bounce ideas off others and see at a situation in a different light. None of my other hounds had spent such a long, long time living in a crate (8+ years). And this poor dog, consequently, is also the most emotionally immature. So another learning curve for me.

[Hubcitypam]

None of my other hounds had spent such a long, long time living in a crate (8+ years)

Which blood bank?

From what I have been told by someone that has actually been to the Pet Blood Bank the dogs there are not crated, but live in outside runs with dog houses. Not that that really makes a difference....

Your choice on baby gate, x-pen or crate -- just keep him apart at night.

Best of luck and keep us posted.

[IndyandHollyluv]

None of my other hounds had spent such a long, long time living in a crate (8+ years)

Which blood bank?

From what I have been told by someone that has actually been to the Pet Blood Bank the dogs there are not crated, but live in outside runs with dog houses. Not that that really makes a difference....

Your choice on baby gate, x-pen or crate -- just keep him apart at night.

Best of luck and keep us posted.

 

Well, forgive me if I am mistaken - perhaps I have assumed incorrectly that he spent the majority of his life in a crated environment - kennel, blood bank (but I don't think so). Anyway, the blood bank was in Texas. I do not know which one (if there is more than one). I live in the Midwest and I am not familiar with pet blood bank operations.

 

He's a very sweet dog but, for example, there have been times at night if it's a "toss and turn" night for me and I start rustling the blankets -- I occasionally hear a low grrrrr! BTW, my hounds do not have furniture privileges so they are in their own bed on the floor.

 

I have to do some measuring but will pick up an x-pen or additional crate.

 

Thanks!!

[Hubcitypam]

None of my other hounds had spent such a long, long time living in a crate (8+ years)

Which blood bank?

From what I have been told by someone that has actually been to the Pet Blood Bank the dogs there are not crated, but live in outside runs with dog houses. Not that that really makes a difference....

Your choice on baby gate, x-pen or crate -- just keep him apart at night.

Best of luck and keep us posted.

 

Well, forgive me if I am mistaken - perhaps I have assumed incorrectly that he spent the majority of his life in a crated environment - kennel, blood bank (but I don't think so). Anyway, the blood bank was in Texas. I do not know which one (if there is more than one). I live in the Midwest and I am not familiar with pet blood bank operations.

Wasn't trying to be mean -- guess I am just offensive as I have been told. The Pet Blood Bank is in Texas and that is the only place I can think of that would hold a donor dog for that long. That was what I was trying to say.

Again good luck.

[IndyandHollyluv]

Oh, no offense taken. I didn't think you were being mean - even if you were. All I know is this boy raced in a few states then, at some point, was donated? sold? (not sure how it works) to a blood bank where I'm guessing he spent his post-racing days until he was released. I was under the impression dogs can only serve until they are approx eight years old? Correct me if I'm wrong.

 

Anyway, my point is I don't believe he ever had a home to call his own until post blood bank. Therefore, sleeping "exposed" to the world is scary for him. He never goes into his crate "just because," but I think he needs the structure and feels safer when crated. Understandable.

[Guest josiecat65]

I'm so glad to have found this discussion. Our new 4 1/2 yr old male greyhound who has been in our home for 5 months started waking up growling and barking all night for the last week even when the other two greyhound girls aren't moving at all. He has his bed on the floor while they sleep on the furniture. He has only gotten on the furniture twice and shows no real interest in it. The bed is his but one of the girls will sleep in it sometimes leaving him nowhere to sleep. During the day everything seems normal. They have all gotten along very well since he arrived. That's why we decided to adopt after fostering him.

 

This kind of behavior is all new to me even though I have had other rescued racing greyhounds(My current two girls never raced). But I started to suspect it might be related to territory and attempts at moving up in the pack since he has now settled in. The two girls are starting to get frazzled at his night time behavior.

 

He does have an appointment at the veterinarian to check for any physical ailments as well. I wish the crate was an option but when he first arrived he would just howl and then the other two would start howling. It was quite a chorus! We had to sleep in the living room with him until he was housebroken (fortunately only about 2 weeks).

 

Thanks for all of your insights!

[Guest Ohiogreymom]

I started out throwing rolled up socks on my sleep aggressive foster. When he responded, I tossed a treat. I then moved up to a small stuffed animal, followed by a treat. Gradually the stuffed animals got larger, and the treats kept coming, and it DID work! Couldn't hurt to try, but in the meantime, definitely separate. Darlene

[Guest Gemma]

I started out throwing rolled up socks on my sleep aggressive foster. When he responded, I tossed a treat. I then moved up to a small stuffed animal, followed by a treat. Gradually the stuffed animals got larger, and the treats kept coming, and it DID work! Couldn't hurt to try, but in the meantime, definitely separate. Darlene

 

We did similar with our sleep aggressive foster; we'd gently throw treats at her when she was sleeping. It helped a fair bit but I swear some of her issues were due to nightmares (nothing and no one could be around her, or moving at all, and she'd wake up snarling and howling) so we still had to crate or gate her away at night.

[JJNg]

Our new 4 1/2 yr old male greyhound who has been in our home for 5 months started waking up growling and barking all night for the last week even when the other two greyhound girls aren't moving at all.

Is the growling and barking directed toward the other greys? Since he does it when the girls aren't moving at all, this doesn't really sound like typical sleep startle behavior. The vet visit is definitely a good idea. Like Gemma, I'm also wondering if he might be having nightmares?

[Guest FastDogsOwnMe]

I have a hound here that ended up at a vet and had no place to go. He's fresh off a track, though not the track I normally deal with, but I assume he had a similar life style as most racers do. He is the sweetest, most darling, friendly dog, but he also has sleep startle issues. He's nearly nailed me a couple times. He looks so much like my own hound that I've stepped over him or reached out to pet him without thinking. He sleeps in a crate. He feels safe there, and since the crate is right beside my Borzoi puppy's crate, he's getting used to having a "neighbor" that flips and flops and roaches and shifts positions all night I've also tried the trick of tossing wadded up paper gently at him, which I learned here. It's working, I think. My own hound that looks like him is one that can be snuggled all night, shoved over in the bed in a deep sleep, kissed in the face, have the baby crawl all over, etc without issue. I don't think he'll ever be one of those, so we just take precautions. He is AWESOME with my toddler son- loves him. I just make sure when it's not awake/play time, they're totally separated.

[Guest LindsaySF]

Teagan's been sleep and space aggressive since he got here. He's in an ex-pen during the day when I'm gone. At night he is muzzled and sleeps on an elevated bed, away from the other dogs. (I used to have a baby gate in front of his bed, but since switching to the elevated bed I took the gate down, he is still muzzled though). The other dogs have learned to avoid him, so the issue is slightly better than it used to be, but I suspect he'll always be this way. Good luck.