Echo's Old Injury Will Never Get Any Better, Only Worse.

[Guest Shermanator]

Little Miss Echo came home in September 2010. When she came home she was a biting, piddling, insecure little girl. However after 6 months, she has become a well adjusted, happy (no more biting!) goofy girl. She loves to play, chew bones, and gave the occasional romp in the backyard. I love this little girlie.

However, when we adopted her, she had 2 issues, that were disclosed to us: 1. she had Valley Fever, and 2. she was born with a birth defect, and her front wrist is slightly crooked, and she'll limp from time to time. I don't think anyone knew the extent of the damage in her front leg.

 

The problem leg is her left front leg. When we took her to see our greyhound vet, (he used to be the track vet for Phoenix Greyhound Park,) he said that it was broken as a pup, and never healed correctly. He thinks her wrist was broken and all the ligaments were torn in her front leg. And, it was never taken care of properly.

 

She has always limped. However, she LOVES short walks, and loves to get the zoomies in the house. She's always been ok, no big problems, just limping all the time, since the wrist is very weak, hyper extends, and is a bit twisted out to the side.

 

According to the vet, this is not something that can be fixed. Bracing it will make it weaker. Surgery to break it and reset it is not an option. Basically, she will always have a limp.

 

So, Friday night, she began to hop. Stopped putting any weight on that leg. Took her back to the vet, to rule out corns, etc, anything else besides the injury. Nope, she had a very tender and sore tricep in the bad leg. Its from her compensating for the bad leg. We can treat with rest, and anti-inflammatories. She really self regulated herself this weekend, she was very quiet, and preferred to stay in bed. It breaks my heart to see this.

 

The vet said this will never get better. She'll have good days, and she'll have bad days. As time goes on, she'll have more bad days, than good. He cannot give me any time line, nobody can tell that.

 

I am so sad. I love her, with all my heart, and hate seeing her in pain. What else can I do for her? Has anyone else had an injured hound like this? What was the injury, and how did you treat? I cannot bear to lose another pup.

 

She's only 3, and all we want is a happy long life for her.

[Guest june]

No advice, but just want you to know how sorry I am. One of my girls (just got in November) is going to the vet to be checked out on Tuesday. She has a slightly deformed back leg and it seems to be causing her problems when we walk. I'll know more on Tuesday. I'll be saying prayers for Little Miss Echo and you.

 

Enjoy the good days with walks and the bad days with cuddles.

june

[gazehund]

The first thing I would do is get at least a second and maybe third opinion with a specialist.

I would never accept my hound has to be in pain and there is nothing I can do for it.

I am not a huge fan of amputation, especially for cancer. But for a young dog like your girl with no other issues ( or issues that can be easily managed) if there are no other options, I would consider it. Accept she has to be in pain and there is nothing I can do? Nope, would not accept that.

[GeorgeofNE]

The first thing I would do is get at least a second and maybe third opinion with a specialist.

I would never accept my hound has to be in pain and there is nothing I can do for it.

I am not a huge fan of amputation, especially for cancer. But for a young dog like your girl with no other issues ( or issues that can be easily managed) if there are no other options, I would consider it. Accept she has to be in pain and there is nothing I can do? Nope, would not accept that.

 

 

I totally agree.

 

She's young, and otherwise healthy. Amputation will cure this problem permanently--

 

Having heard Dr. Couto himself refer to Greyhounds as "three legged dogs with a spare," and his explanation of why they do so brilliantly on three legs, if she were my dog, I'd do it.

 

DJsGreys has a hound who wears a brace, permanently. You might PM her about it. The dog goes quite well, but cannot really go without it.

[Batmom]

Ditto getting a 2nd opinion from an ortho specialist plus a consult with a canine physical therapist.

[Guest Shermanator]

I honestly wouldn't know where to go for a second opinion. The vet we see is highly recommended, and our adoption groupbonly uses him, and recommends him for greyhound issues. I have tried to go to other vets in the past for my bridge boy Patton. He had cronic sore rear muscles. His was not as profound as Echo's. I tried other vets, who nickled-and-dimed me into muliple xrays, bloodwork,etc, all to find nothing. They were clueless, and a waste of a lot of money. I do not trust anyone but our local vet. Her injury/birth defect hyperextends her wrist, to that leg is always a little shorter, throwing her off kilter, hence the sore triceps.

 

I honestly wouldn't know where to go for a second opinion. The vet we see is highly recommended, and our adoption groupbonly uses him, and recommends him for greyhound issues. I have tried to go to other vets in the past for my bridge boy Patton. He had cronic sore rear muscles. His was not as profound as Echo's. I tried other vets, who nickled-and-dimed me into muliple xrays, bloodwork,etc, all to find nothing. They were clueless, and a waste of a lot of money. I do not trust anyone but our local vet. Her injury/birth defect hyperextends her wrist, to that leg is always a little shorter, throwing her off kilter, hence the sore triceps.

[Batmom]

Not doubting your vet is a good vet . Just, there's a difference between a good vet and an orthopedic specialist who treats complicated cases. Might be worth emailing Dr. Stack to see if she knows of anyone out your way?

[Guest BiancasMom]

I also vote for a second opinion. Echo needs to see an orthopedic specialist. Even if your vet is Greyhound savvy, it doesn't mean they are the best for orthopedic issues. I had an Aussie with a hyper-extension injury and he would limp constantly as well. We ended up going to the orthepedic surgeon and having a partial carpal arthrodesis (fuse the carpus or wrist) and he was great after that. They just put a small plate in the carpus until the joint fused, thereby eliminating the floppy sore tendons as well. I agree, there is no reason poor Echo should not be able to ejoy a long happy life. I would see the orthopedist before going for amputation, just to see if there is a chance to save the leg.

[racindog]

I have had 2 chronic pain greyts. IMO it all depends on the dog in question as to what to do or not to do. Goldie had a very bad bone chip they could do nothing with which I eventually was able to control pain level with ecogesic and fresh factors and an old indian blend of 75% yucca that Solid Gold makes and by physical activity restrictions and external preparations.

 

Cash's is MUCH worse. One of my vets told me that I did not realize the level of pain she endured but that fortunately she was able to adapt and tolerate it well. She has a broken hock that was never fixed either and because of that walks on the foot wrong(since the foot is twisted and doesn't hit the ground right). Thus both feet are also deformed and sad to look at with the accompanying pain and problems. In addition her neck vertebra were traumatically smashed together and some teeth knocked out/broke off. The neck injury is by far the most serious and painful but that is not to minimize the pain from the knarly hock and feet. However she is a HAPPY active houndie and the vet just raves over her excellent condition otherwise. Remarkably both hind quarters match and are balanced. She seems to instinctively know that she doesn't want the broken side to atrophy. I have watched her painfully use that broke leg on purpose INSTEAD of hopping pain free. Her main vet is a holistic vet and we support her and allow her to take care of herself as she sees fit and I tell you she has done a better job than we could have. I shower her with prayers and she gets Fresh Factors, Springtime Joint Health, Springtime J-Flex(more or less same thing as FF), fish oil, vit E, Tramadol on occassion, and Ecogesic on rare occassions. I also believe accupuncture has helped her a lot and she gets some homeopathic meds on ocassion also as needed. She decides how much activity she wants but inevitably occassionally enjoys a short run and has no problem even jumping onto furniture etc.. She will be 12 in May and is still a beautiful happy healthy hound overall. To be honest I believe it could have been a blessing in disguise that her hock was left alone due to the unusual number of osteo cases that have resulted in the past possibly from the metal used to repair fractures/knees etc. acording to Whole Dog Journal.

 

I know the feeling of frustation of seeing them in pain and seemingly not being able to do anything. In my experience though the most important pain killer of all is the love we give them and support and being able to respect their wishes and their very real ability to cope a whole lot better than we think. No way would I consider the risk of amputation without talking to her first and seeing what she thought- after all its her body and I guarantee you she knows better what is best for her. That is what I found out with Goldie and Cash. They knew best and what they wanted from me was support and love-not more trauma trying to fix something that couldn't be fixed anyway.

 

Prayers for Echo! Talk to her and I think you both will feel better! Sometimes they know more than we do.

[KF_in_Georgia]

Look into hydrotherapy options as a way to strength the bad leg without putting more strain on it. If there are greyhound (or other dog) owners in your area who do agility or lure coursing with their dogs, talk to them to see if they can recommend someone. (When Sam started having back problems last week, I went straight to the local agility expert for recommendations for chiro and acupuncture.)

[Guest Swifthounds]

Have you tried asking the vet for a specialty referral to an oath? Also, if you've had x rays and testing at one vet, simply obtain them or have them forwarded from one vet to another. There's no need to repeat the same diagnostics again.

 

Also, if you're not using supplements with her yet, I would suggest doing that now as well.

[tbhounds]

I also vote for a second opinion. Echo needs to see an orthopedic specialist. Even if your vet is Greyhound savvy, it doesn't mean they are the best for orthopedic issues. I had an Aussie with a hyper-extension injury and he would limp constantly as well. We ended up going to the orthepedic surgeon and having a partial carpal arthrodesis (fuse the carpus or wrist) and he was great after that. They just put a small plate in the carpus until the joint fused, thereby eliminating the floppy sore tendons as well. I agree, there is no reason poor Echo should not be able to ejoy a long happy life. I would see the orthopedist before going for amputation, just to see if there is a chance to save the leg.

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[Remolacha]

what racindog said, about supplements and acupuncture, will help manage her pain. There is a specialist veterinary clinic in (I think) Chandler that I have had good luck with, although I've never had an orthopedic issue. I can give you the contact info if you want (it's at home).

[joejoesmom]

I also vote for a second opinion. Echo needs to see an orthopedic specialist. Even if your vet is Greyhound savvy, it doesn't mean they are the best for orthopedic issues. I had an Aussie with a hyper-extension injury and he would limp constantly as well. We ended up going to the orthepedic surgeon and having a partial carpal arthrodesis (fuse the carpus or wrist) and he was great after that. They just put a small plate in the carpus until the joint fused, thereby eliminating the floppy sore tendons as well. I agree, there is no reason poor Echo should not be able to ejoy a long happy life. I would see the orthopedist before going for amputation, just to see if there is a chance to save the leg.

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I agree totally. An orthopedic specialist and perhaps a physical therapist and/or chiropractor. Is there a good vet school near you? I know UC Davis is good but probably way to far for you.

 

If the choice is putting her to sleep, letting her exist in severe pain, or amputation; I would definitely choose amputation. Greyhounds get along amazingly well on three legs. But it needs to be done at a facility with a 24/7 ICU.

 

This is my opinion (being owned by a tripod) for what it is worth.

 

Jane

[JJNg]

Like everyone else, I would strongly recommend a consult with a specialist, with a board certified surgeon probably being the best place to start. You mentioned trying other vets in the past - were they specialists? You can go to the website for the American College of Veterinary Surgeons and use the "Find a Surgeon" feature to get a idea of what you have available in your area.

 

Most surgeons work at specialty practices that require a referral from your regular vet. Ask your vet for a referral so you can explore additional options. As a vet, I would certainly not be offended if a client asked for a referral to a specialist. In fact, I truly believe that there are very few situations where nothing more can be done, and if I was out of ideas, I'd be more than happy to refer to someone more knowledgeable who might have more to offer.

 

Has your vet taken x-rays to see exactly what's going on in the bones of her wrist? Did he specify which bone he thought had been broken? Why is surgery to break and reset not an option? Depending on where the misalignment is, there may even be options for other advanced surgical procedures to improve the alignment of her leg. Surgeons can do some pretty amazing things these days, and even a good general practitioner may not be aware of all the recent advances. This article (click for link here) includes "before and after" photos of pretty extreme example.

 

Obviously advanced surgical procedures like this get pretty expensive, but with such a young dog, it may be worth it and end up being cheaper than fighting a pain management battle for the rest of her life. If her leg has been injured in such a way that corrective surgery is not possible, there are options for 'salvage' procedures like joint fusion or amputation. Personally, with a greyhound, I would avoid amputation if there are any other options. If the dog were to develop bone cancer later in life, there would no longer be a 'spare'.

 

Other options to consider would be alternative pain management techniques (acupuncture, laser therapy, herbal medicine) and physical therapy and rehab to strengthen the ligaments. With the physical mis-alignment of her wrist, these options will all have limits in what can be achieved, which is why I would consider surgery first.

 

Best wishes for your girl, and I hope she's feeling better soon!

[Guest Shermanator]

Today, she has eased up on the limping, and tearing around the house like a madman- obviously feeling better. Honestly, I am afraid of putting her through surgery, braces, etc, as pain management seems to be working now. Our neighbors had a horrible experience when trying to repair damaged tendons in her legs. 1 year later they have spent thousands of dollars, tried numerous braces, and a 2nd surgery to resolve the pup's problem, and its still not better. Now, this little pup is in more pain that in which she was before surgery.

Right now, after some anti-inflammatories, she's fine, back to normal. Thank you for all your advice, if Echo's problems worsen, I will definitely consult an orthopedic surgeon.

She usually acts like she has no deformity at all, she tears through the house with the zommies like a madman. Its a difficult decision what would be best for her- disrupt her world with a surgery, etc, or let her be, as she normally compensates well. I wish she could tell me what she wants.