Question For Those With Hypothyroid Dogs

[Guest mdituro]

Having read a little about hypothyroidism, I now have more questions than I had before I read up on it!

 

Here's the situation: my vet seems to think my female Greyhound is truly hypothyroid. He is very Greyhound saavy and I do trust his judgement but 'Reo's symptoms don't seem to match the common ones I keep reading about (except increasing hair loss). She is drinking - a lot - and has increased incidence of urination. Also, she was incontinent for a couple days, which seems to have subsided (not sure what that means). Her BUN, creatinine, RBC & WBC were all well within normal with no signs of Proteinuria. However, she did have a slightly elevated blood sugar level. He said he was not suggesting that she was diabetic, he was just mentioning it. He did say she had "no thyroid value" - ?? He just got the results today & called me with his diagnosis so I don't have a copy of the labs yet. He wants to start her on Soloxine (sp?) on Monday, use it for a month, and see if she improves. Input, insight, experience or comments from those of you very intelligent, much more experienced than I, Greyhound owners would be greatly appreciated!

 

Thank you!

Mary Ann & 'Reo (short for Oreo), confused & unsure about endocrinology!

[Guest Energy11]

Well, my vet here, AND Michigan State University, said my Goldie's thyroid was within normal limits.. I didn't buy it, based on her results. SO... I emailed her results to Dr. Jean Dodds .... hemopet@hotmail.com .

 

She got back to me almost right away, and she was out of the country at the time... SHE said, YES, Goldie was, indeed HYPOTHYROID )**see my post in Health and Medical ... *** And, my former vet/employer/ and still friend, said the same ... .

 

Goldie is doing VERY well, thank God, and I am grateful!

 

I would definintely recommend emailing your thyroid results to Dr. Jean Dodds... !!!

 

Good Luck, and sending prayers and good thoughts! Dee and The Five! ...p.s... My Goldie started on Soloxine Tues... :-)))

[OwnedBySummer]

Sorry to hear that something is wrong with your baby. Here's a link to Dr. Suzanne Stack's article on hypothyroidism. Hopefully it will help you...

 

Hypothyroidism

[Batmom]

Need a full thyroid panel with fT4 by equilibrium dialysis and TSH to diagnose hypothyroidism in a greyhound. Best place to get that is the premium panel from MSU. Wouldn't do it any other way.

[Guest mdituro]

Well, my vet here, AND Michigan State University, said my Goldie's thyroid was within normal limits.. I didn't buy it, based on her results. SO... I emailed her results to Dr. Jean Dodds .... hemopet@hotmail.com .

 

She got back to me almost right away, and she was out of the country at the time... SHE said, YES, Goldie was, indeed HYPOTHYROID )**see my post in Health and Medical ... *** And, my former vet/employer/ and still friend, said the same ... .

 

Goldie is doing VERY well, thank God, and I am grateful!

 

I would definintely recommend emailing your thyroid results to Dr. Jean Dodds... !!!

 

Good Luck, and sending prayers and good thoughts! Dee and The Five! ...p.s... My Goldie started on Soloxine Tues... :-)))

 

Yep - reading your post was one of the first things I did before posting this topic! Then, went to Dr. Jean's website, even bookmarked the "Test Request Submission Form" to take with me on Monday :-) I will definitely email her whether I get the T5 test through her lab or not. I also read SEVERAL other vet's website articles for additional insight but none have that "personal touch" I'm hoping to garner here - you know, that firsthand, irreplaceable knowledge you only come by, by being there?

 

Sending my best to you & Goldie: I'll be reciprocating the good thoughts & prayers ;-)

 

 

 

Sorry to hear that something is wrong with your baby. Here's a link to Dr. Suzanne Stack's article on hypothyroidism. Hopefully it will help you...

 

Hypothyroidism

 

 

I love Dr. Stack - she gave me insight on my CRF dog before he was even officially diagnosed! Hers was one of the websites I visited before posting.

 

 

[Guest mdituro]

Need a full thyroid panel with fT4 by equilibrium dialysis and TSH to diagnose hypothyroidism in a greyhound. Best place to get that is the premium panel from MSU. Wouldn't do it any other way.

 

I'll look into that - thank you for your suggestion

[Guest Energy11]

GOOD LUCK!!! ")

 

Sending lots of love, hugs and prayers your way! :-))

 

 

[TheFullHouse]

Gee had no energy and when I say no energy I mean she got out of bed in the morning would go potty, act like she was starving, eat and lay down and not move again until it was time to go outside. She had a rough coat, not smooth and silky like my others, it felt coarse to the touch. She had horribly dry skin. She drank a lot of water and was basically a blob on a bed all day long.

 

A combination of a grain free food and thyroid medication and she is now happy, up and around all day, has a wonderful coat, drinks a lot less and is far from the dog we had.

[Batmom]

Some useful references:

 

http://www.gbgb.org.uk/thyroidfunction.aspx

http://www.animalhealth.msu.edu/Sections/Endocrinology/Thyroid_Canine.php

 

Presuming she's had a repeat urinalysis and that was 100% clean?

[greyhead]

Thyroid affects every cell in the body. Therefore, symptoms can be all over the place, including things you can't see and they can't tell you about. (Decreased kidney function can be one of the results of low thyroid, btw.) But being hypothyroid is No fun AT ALL, and I would never let any critter under my care persist in it. Even if your dog doesn't look like he's doing poorly, if he's hypothyroid, his other systems and organs (such as the adrenals) are having to over-compensate, and that will cost him sooner or later.

 

Don't worry about the "classic" symptoms too much; some say they only tend to occur after much of the thyroid has already been destroyed. The symptoms of hypothyroidism can even be the complete reverse of what's expected (e.g., being too thin rather than too heavy). Get the numbers from your vet, ask him to explain his reasoning, read as much as you can stand not just about greyhound thyroids but also about what the thyroid *does*, and then see what you think.

 

Some of us feel that the standards for treating the thyroid in greyhounds are way too conservative. If your vet said "no value," I'm guessing he meant too low to be measurable. How is anybody supposed to function like that?!

 

ETA: I have much less respect for MSU's thyroid analysis since I saw their analysis of Dee's (Energy11) girl Goldie. Read her recent thread if you want to see how that discussion went. We were all pretty full and frank with our reactions.

Edited January 9, 2011 by greyhead

[greysmom]

If she truly has low thyroid, then she will need to start medication. If she isn't Low T, starting the meds for a month trial will not necessarily hurt her, and may provide you with further info for different diagnosis if it doesn't resolve the symptoms.

 

You are right in that her symptoms don't seem a perfect match for lowT, but it can have multiple effects on bodily systems and affects each dog differently. I would probably give it a try, as it's the easiest and lowest negative impact place to start.

Edited January 9, 2011 by greysmom

[Batmom]

ETA: I have much less respect for MSU's thyroid analysis since I saw their analysis of Dee's (Energy11) girl Goldie.

 

Their analysis is based on @ 40 years of peer-reviewed, well-established, scientific research about greyhound norms, which many vets unfortunately choose to ignore in both their testing protocols and their interpretations.

[greyhead]

ETA: I have much less respect for MSU's thyroid analysis since I saw their analysis of Dee's (Energy11) girl Goldie.

 

Their analysis is based on @ 40 years of peer-reviewed, well-established, scientific research about greyhound norms, which many vets unfortunately choose to ignore in both their testing protocols and their interpretations.

 

There are limits to how far research can be trusted, as explained in an article in the current New Yorker:

http://www.newyorker...currentPage=all

It's not good to reify research, no matter who has done it or how long they've been doing it. Peer review in first-class journals is no guarantee! I can't say it any simpler than that. Another good source of understanding about why that is is Thomas Kuhn's book The Structure of Scientific Revolutions, which has been around for about 60 years and is itself highly respected. I don't know if you've actually ever done research, but I have. I'm not just blowing smoke here. There are a multitude of ways that research can go wrong, the most important being that we always want and tend to find what we expect to find. This happens even to the most ethical researchers of the highest integrity, as the article explores. I'd be grateful if you'd read this link, Batmom, and everybody else who is puzzled by these arguments we persist in having. And I wish you good night. I'm off to celebrate the Seahawks' upset victory.

Edited January 9, 2011 by greyhead

[Batmom]

I've read it. It doesn't really speak to the issue of why certain vets ignore well-established research that serves no special interest and for which there has been no decline effect. Rather, there's been the opposite of a decline effect, as well as a steady accumulation of data regarding the efficacy of various test and analysis methods.

Edited January 9, 2011 by Batmom

[kudzu]

On which test results is your vet basing this? If it is just the T4, fT4, T3, fT3 then I would not start the meds if it were my dog. Most especially not if this was the first time you've checked. Personally if you've not already done so I would get the MSU panel done. Then if the results are equivocal or for some reason your vet does not concur you can still send the panel to Dr. Dodds for review. At least you used to be able to. My girl was started on meds based on classic hypoT symptoms in combination with a thyroid panel & the fact that it indicated declining thyroid function in comparison to her own test results in the past. Though we are using the T3/4 numbers for some of the interim monitoring in combination with my girls symptomatic response. I would not use it for diagnosis nor go for extended periods of time monitoring only those. (Note: Others here would apparently disagree with doing even some interim monitoring without a full panel.)

 

Your girl may indeed be hypoT but you need to be sure or at least have some strong confidence that you have the correct diagnosis. Those symptoms are shared with quite a few other diseases.

[Guest Energy11]

On which test results is your vet basing this? If it is just the T4, fT4, T3, fT3 then I would not start the meds if it were my dog. Most especially not if this was the first time you've checked. Personally if you've not already done so I would get the MSU panel done. Then if the results are equivocal or for some reason your vet does not concur you can still send the panel to Dr. Dodds for review. At least you used to be able to. My girl was started on meds based on classic hypoT symptoms in combination with a thyroid panel & the fact that it indicated declining thyroid function in comparison to her own test results in the past. Though we are using the T3/4 numbers for some of the interim monitoring in combination with my girls symptomatic response. I would not use it for diagnosis nor go for extended periods of time monitoring only those. (Note: Others here would apparently disagree with doing even some interim monitoring without a full panel.)

 

Your girl may indeed be hypoT but you need to be sure or at least have some strong confidence that you have the correct diagnosis. Those symptoms are shared with quite a few other diseases.

 

MSU and MY vet here, said my Goldie did NOT need thyroid supplementation. I DID send the MSU panel to Dr. Dodds, and SHE said, Yes, definintely. My former vet/employer and still friend, in Florida, concurred with Dr. Dodds. Actually, after seeing the MSU panel, Dr. Beau said to definitely supplement. We are doing that, and so far so good :-)

 

I AM a FIRM believer in getting a few opinions, based on my background and experiences.

Edited January 9, 2011 by Energy11

[Guest mdituro]

I am very grateful to everyone who is taking the time to read this thread as time is the very most valuable, non-renewable resource we have! I am going in to speak with my vet tomorrow and will have a better picture of why he thinks 'Reo is low-T. If I think further tests are warranted after having met with him, and before starting her on meds, I now have plenty of resources for testing facilities, thanks to all of you folks. Also, I didn't mean to further any disagreement from previous postings.

 

But ...

 

My question was really posed from a non-scientific, non-medical aspect of what to look for/expect, ie., what others who have low-T dogs have noticed behavior-wise with their dogs as well as what other symptoms their dogs exhibited.

[greyhead]

Batmom, the declining effect is merely the tip of the iceberg. As the last sentence of the article states:

"The decline effect is troubling because it reminds us how difficult it is to prove anything. We like to pretend that our experiments define the truth for us. But that’s often not the case. Just because an idea is true doesn’t mean it can be proved. And just because an idea can be proved doesn’t mean it’s true. When the experiments are done, we still have to choose what to believe. ♦"

 

I'll put the rest of my reply in my own "Hypothyroidism" thread, as this discussion is more appropriate there, which is why I started it in the first place.

 

 

 

[Remolacha]

Well, I don't know if this will help you or not, but Fletcher had almost none of the "classic" symptoms, except a thin coat (but not rough). In fact, his thyroid was tested when he was younger because of that, and it was normal at that time. A couple of years ago, He developed a chronic limp, and seemed more hyperactive (that's very subjective, but I know my dog). The bad thing was ruled out, along with Valley Fever and some other things, so my (greyhound savvy) vet tested his thyroid, and it was low. We started supplementing and it did help the limp and calm him down (a bit). He also has arthritis, so he can still limp occasionally.

 

So, I don't think many people would think of a limp as a thyroid symptom, but there you are. I guess I agree with those who say the symptoms can literally affect any part of their body.

 

A second opinion never hurts.

[seeh2o]

Carl is hypothyroid, went undiagnosed for almost 2 years. When I got him he had bald thighs and chest, his skin was soft, but sort of old looking and he had SA. I noticed his eyes developing rings on the edges, took him to the vet who seemed greyhound savvy who diagnosed him with Pannus. After a couple of months without improvement a asked for a referral to an ophthalmologist, went there where he diagnosed him with corneal dystophy treated him with 2 different ointments to which Carl had TERRIBLE reactions to and had to be discontinued immediately. He told me to go back to using the Pannus medication. I wasn't satisfied with his diagnosis, went to my other dog's old vet. During the summer all these appointments were taking place Carl had blown his winter coat, but his fur was significantly thinner, though what fur he had was very very shiny and healthy looking, the lower outside of his thighs had thinning fur, his neck was bare and had overall thinning of fur everywhere and his eyes were getting worse. Carl has always been a low-key sort of fellow, not much for playing, etc., but other than the SA, no concerning behavior or aggression.

 

The other vet did a thyroid panel, sent it to Dr. Dodds (that is who my vet uses for thyroid panels) who confirmed his being hypothyroid and said he needed to be treated. I also got a referral to a real vet ophthalmologist (the other guy turns out not to be board certified, he's just a vet) and had a correct diagnosis during the first visit. He had corneal rings because he is hypothyroid and untreated. We put him on Soloxine and his eyes improved, his skin improved, his fur grew in - not a ton of it, but he has fur on his neck now and on the outside of his thighs and a little more on his chest. His scars on his body don't show up as much and his personality "brightened", he actually plays with toys and bones now. I can tell he feels a lot better. He never had a problem with his weight or his appetite, his main problem was with his eyes, which is not a classic symptom.

 

Not all dogs have classic symptoms. Honestly, I would never ever send his blood for a thyroid panel to anyone except to Jean Dodds. I know others feel differently and are as passionate in their belief as I am in mine, but she hit a homerun for Carl and it sounds like she has done the same for Dee's Goldie.

[Guest mdituro]

So far, 'Reo is not presenting with any opthalmic issues, skin lesions, or lethargy, the latter of which would definitely have me thinking low-T/hypo-T when combined with her other symptoms. We haven't seen any signs of aggression, either, and we hope we never do.

 

She -has- been drinking & peeing much more frequently (was even leaking a few times when laying down). She has been losing more & more hair on her thighs of late, too. Her skin pigmentation seems to be in overdrive. She's gotten so many more spots they are beginning to meld together - she's a black & white dog & you REALLY see the spots under her white hair. She seems to have some degree of dry skin, as well. She also seems to tire more easily & takes longer to recover after a good romp than other dogs her age (she just turned 5).

 

She has been on a grain free diet (Fromm's Surf & Turf combined with Stella & Chewy's) since shortly after we adopted her in May of 2010. I also supplement with fish oil caps. She has always had a good appetite (but she is not overweight, at all), she's active, and is very vocal!! She is very affectionate to people & gets along well with other Greys.

 

Having just lost an 11 1/2 year old boy to CRF in November (3 1/2 years post dx), I know that diet can have a huge impact w/r/t improving quality of life/prolonging life so will be looking into that aspect of things, too. Don't even know if there is a dietary recommendation for low-T dogs.

 

Thank you for the symptom profiles of Gee, Fletcher, Goldie, & Carl - it is EXACTLY the input I am looking for as it is helpful for me to understand what variety of symptoms are possible & what I should be watching out for. I understand that further testing will be necessary to confirm the initial diagnosis - and I do firmly believe that more than one opinion is a good idea, regardless of how much I trust the first one!

Edited January 9, 2011 by mdituro