Sutra's Limp = Probable Osteo

[joejoesmom]

I just wanted to let you know: If you decide to come to OSU to see Dr. Couto's team, there is a group of local greyhound owners who will help you out. We probably can put you up in someone's house. We can provide moral support and be there with you. We may even be able to take care of your baby in a home environment if you have to go back to work and Sutra needs to stay at OSU. You can reach me at:

 

finewhipador-drool@yahoo.com

 

Also, Dr. Couto has a large team of vets who work for him. You might hear back from one of them. Here is info on his team.

 

OSU Greyhound Health and Wellness Program:

Phone: (614) 247-6757

Email: greyosu@osu.edu

Website: http://www.vet.ohio-state.edu/GHWP.htm

 

This email goes to the team. If Dr. Couto is traveling, you may get a quicker answer from one of his team members. Drs. Marin and Zaldivar typically respond to greyhound owners.

 

Dr. Couto, Department Head, Greyhound Medicine, Oncolology and Hematology

Dr. Lili Marin, Greyhound Health and Oncology

Dr. Sara Zaldivar, Greyhound Health and Oncology

Dr. William Kisselberth, Oncology

Dr. Cheryl London, Oncology

Dr. Cristina Iazbik, Blood Bank Director and Hematologist

Dr. Bridget Urie, Oncology Resident

Dr. Matt Sherger, Oncology Resident

Dawn Hudson, Vet Tech

Ashley DeFelice, Vet Tech

Stacey Gallant, Vet Tech

 

Drs Marin and Zaldivar are originally from Spanish speaking countries. If you have trouble understanding them over the phone, you might ask for one of the other vets or vet techs to “translate”.

 

Dr. Couto's direct email is:

couto.1@osu.edu

His phone number is also 614-247-6757. If he is in town, he typically returns emails in the early hours of the morning.

 

You should know that (in my humble opinion) they need more staff. Unfortunately finances do not permit it at this time. I think they do about 20 consults a day along with all of their "in canine" patients. There is no charge for phone/email consultations. Depending on their workload there may be a wait for the consultation.

 

If you decide to visit OSU please contact me. I may be able to put you up in a local home, provide moral support, or just help with logistics:

 

Finewhipador-drool@yahoo.com

 

The main number for the veterinary hospital is 614-292-3551

[sabrina]

Cancer=crap, craper, crapest. Sutra I hope you get to stay with your mom for while.

Hugs to you

[Guest mountain4greys]

:hope :hope

[krissn333]

Dr. Marin just emailed me and told me to call and make an appointment with the oncology area. I don't think she realized I'm not planning to drive to OSU...I just need their opinion and guidance. So, I wrote her back. We'll see what she has to say...

[Guest speedoketo]

The biggest thing I learned about radiographs was that you genuinely can't diagnose cancer based on radiographs alone. There are some things that will tell you how aggressive the lesion are and if it's extremely aggressive that points more strongly to cancer but it isn't the definitive test. By the shoulder is an extremely common site which is why your vet is probably so sure (greyhound + key location = very likely). BUT Other common lesions that look very similar are chondrosarcoma, fibrosarcoma, and hemangiosarcoma which all have VERY different prognoses and treatments. Fungal infections also look similar. Since I've got 2 greys myself I spend a lot of time thinking about what I would do if one of them suddenly got a bone growth. In my mind (and its ok if you feel differently) I would absolutely risk weakening the bone to take a good biopsy (at least 3 samples right from the center of the lesion) because this is a life or death diagnosis. Even this isn't 100% guaranteed but it's a heck of a lot more diagnostic than radiographs (this was emphasized to us in class over and over and over and over). If the samples come back as osteo at least you can be 100% sure you are following the correct therapy plan.

 

Osteo is the diagnosis I live in fear of for my boys. Keep in mind that oncology is an EXTREMELY progressive field, things change week to week. I'm telling you all this not to tell you what to do - this is your decision and you should feel confident in what you decide and the only way to do that is with information. Dr. Couto I'm sure looks at hundreds of osteosarcoma rads and that experience alone is extremely valuable but most vets don't have that background which is why biopsies are recommended. My heart hurts for you and everyone else who has gone through this pain. You have the support of everyone here and no matter what you do it will be the right choice - you know your dog best.

[NancyB]

I'm so sorry to hear about Sutra. Sending hugs and prayers.

[krissn333]

I just heard from Dr. Marin...she is on the lookout for the films. If they think it's suspicious, they recommend fine needle aspiration to diagnose for sure.

 

He has not had any tramadol yesterday or today - the Deramaxx seems to be taking care of whatever pain he was having. I half expected him to be limping again this morning after going all day yesterday with no tramadol, but, he was fine When I get home from work this afternoon we'll see how he's doing. He was happy and bouncy last night when I got home from school - just wanted his hug and to be let outside so he can dig in the dirt around my tree He can dig all he wants as long as he's here with me to do it!

 

Dr. Marin sent me a couple of articles and one of their newsletters that had an article about osteo...I have seen LOTS of three leggers, but have never seen a dog that's lost a front leg in person, only in videos here (Whitey comes to mind ). In the newsletter was a picture of Zinger, a very nice looking brindle hound. Maybe it was because he was freshly shaven, but my eyes welled up with tears thinking about Sutra looking like that...I hope I will be able to handle it if that's the route we take...I'm by no means a medical wuss or anything...it was just...shocking I guess.

[Guest eaglflyt]

Sending hugs and many prayers for Sutra and you. I hope OSU receives and reviews the x-rays quickly. Bless you both.

[krissn333]

Sutra evening update: I got home from work and my refinance closing around 4:30 - Sutra was just fine. I went to class and got home around 8:30 and I could hear him rooing from inside the house He was hopping all over the place, dancing because he was excited I was home. He is not limping. He trotted around the yard to go potty and stopped over by my tree to do some digging and dirt eating

 

I hope that the Deramaxx continues to provide enough relief - he hates taking the tramadol

[Guest MorganKonaAlex]

Hi Kristen,

 

I've had 2 front leg amps. I have post-surgery photos if you want to see them. Let me know.

[krissn333]

He was fine today when I got home from work too He wants to run sooo so badly but I'm afraid to let him, I don't want him to over do it and hurt again.

 

I fought with him to eat breakfast again today...but I figured out that he's more amenable to eating if I give him his deramaxx and his joint health tablets first. Like a little kid who wants the desserts before the meal I act like they're treats and ask him to woof for me for them...so he thinks they're something really valuable, like a cookie

 

I saw the videos of Whitey and Apollo in Whitey's thread last night - Sutra as a three legger will be more like Whitey I think - a bit of meandering rather than the crazy running that Apollo does - but WOW seeing him fly around took my breath away

 

I have also realized that I can have my mom crochet him a few one legged sweaters from the Etsy pattern that someone shared here on GT...

 

I'm getting ahead of myself - I don't even know what we're dealing with yet...I guess I just want to be prepared.

 

Hi Kristen,

 

I've had 2 front leg amps. I have post-surgery photos if you want to see them. Let me know.

 

I think it'd be good for me to see them, if you don't mind sharing.

 

[Guest FullMetalFrank]

Keeping Sutra in my prayers...

[krissn333]

I just received this email from Dr. Marin:

 

Hi Kristin,

Yes we did, unfortunately there is a lytic (bone destruction) lesion in the upper front leg bone, below the right shoulder joint, (proximal humerus). The lesion is compatible with a primary bone tumor. The diagnosis can be confirmed with a fine needle aspiration.

 

Please let us know how we can help.

 

Looks like we'll be doing the fine needle aspiration next...

 

Actually, I guess I have a question for those of you experienced in this...would you do the FNA, or just forget that and get going on the amp?

 

How long does it take to get the results of a FNA?

 

Crap. This is REAL now...it was real before but now it's capital letter REAL

[mom2four]

Hi Kristin,

 

We tried a FNA with Jamey and when that did not go all the way through the remaining bone (and we had inconclusive results) we did a larger needle aspiration too, again with inconclusive results. IMHO, If they are quite sure it is osteo, and you are thinking amputation anyway, I would skip the needle biopsies, it only takes more time....more time for the osteo to spread in Sutra.

 

Sending lots of white light your way!!!

[MP_the4pack]

When Diamond was diagnosed, because it was in a spot that most cancer is in for greys, I did a CT scan to check for mets. Then went straight to amp.

 

She made it 6 months. And they were a very high quality six months. (she went to the Bridge Monday. The cancer returned to her hind leg)

[Guest K9Cookies]

Oh, Kristin. I'm just now seeing this. I don't have any experience with osteo, but we both know others have see it too much. I hope the meds continue to help Sutra until you decide where to go from here.

[Batmom]

Real is different.

 

 

How is the rest of him in terms of movement, arthritis, LS, etc.?

[krissn333]

Jey, he is getting around really well..even ran in the yard last night. He seems a little bit lazier than usual, but, we're all that way if we're not feeling great. I am going to take him to see my friend who has a front leg amputee on Saturday - I want her to look at him and see what she thinks - if his body can handle it.

 

He has no signs of LS or arthritis.

 

My biggest concern is that he is not wanting to eat much. I may have to go back to the diet I was feeding him when he was recuperating from his pancreatitis.

 

Dr. Berger is going to call Dr. Marin at OSU to speak to her directly about the FNA, etc...I am going to think about skipping it altogether.

[Batmom]

Unless there's some doubt about whether it's a bone infection of some type vs. cancer, doesn't seem like there'd be much point to the FNA? Having your doc call Dr. Marin seems like a really good idea.

 

Give handsome boy some scritchies for me and tell him to be good and EAT!

[Guest MorganKonaAlex]

Here are links to the photos. Morgan post amputation Morgan had very little bruising. Demon had bleeding issues and we had to give Amicar. There are several photos at the bottom of this web page index page and on the next index page.

 

A FNA is minimally invasive but it's not conclusive if it's negative. Having been through this 3 times, I accept what the xrays indicate but you need to make your own decision. If I had another grey go through amputation, I would have the doctor give them Amicar as a precaution.

 

re: his eating: Could the meds be upsetting his stomach?

[krissn333]

Kris, I'm not sure about the meds...he's taken Deramaxx before without issue. I think it's just a function of him not feeling well. He's happy to eat a billion cookies though HIf he doesn't take a cookie, I'll know he's REALLY not feeling well. I am putting him on some Clavamox in case his pancreatitis is flaring again. Thanks for the pics...I'm going to look at them in a second.

[NancyB]

Kristin if you click HERE you can see Marvin's amputation pictures. They start at the hospital when we picked him up. I put pictures in there everyday for people could see his progress.

 

Sending hugs

[krissn333]

Nancy, thanks for sharing.

 

You guys, I'm so scared What if we do the amp and he gets depressed because it's hard to get around, or he thinks I've betrayed him in some way? He's so happy right now, running and playing in the yard on 4 legs. He has no limp at all.

 

I feel like I don't know which way is up anymore...it just doesn't make sense that he's running and playing on 4 legs and doing just fine, but he's got something inside him lurking. I guess that's what makes cancer that much more awful...

 

I feel like I can't make any sort of decision. I can't imagine him as a tripod and I'm so worried about how he will do. On the other hand, I feel like I have to do everything I can for him. I just don't want to go through with the amputation only to have him be worse off and end up having to let him go sooner than I would if I did nothing.

 

But if I do nothing, it will spread and eventually his leg will break...I'll be walking a tightrope of decision in when to let him go. I know this. God, I know this, why is it so hard for my brain to just accept it and know that we need to do the amputation? Do I subconsciously think that I shouldn't do the amputation? Why do I keep wrestling with this? Why am I so back and forth?

 

He's just laying here now, looking at me with happy, content eyes. I don't ever want those eyes to say "what have you done to me?"

 

I am going out of my mind here

[RileysLegacy]

Kristin, I am so sorry to hear the definitive diagnosis. It is terrible. I wish I had some good advice, but many of us have been on the same road, and we can at least offer support. Please know that whatever decision you make will be the right one, as he is your dog and you know him best. I personally did not (as you know) amputate, and to be honest it was never even a consideration for me. But there are plenty of people who feel that it is the way to go. So, you really have to weigh the pros and cons, and in the end follow your heart. Sutra will not think that you betrayed him either way, you are doing the best you can for him, and he knows that. Please let me know if there's anything I can do.

[Guest SusanP]

:grouphug I wish I could say something wise to help you make a decision. If you are inclined to do the amputation, I'd probably do it fast. I forget, how old is he? Is there any way of knowing how early on you're catching this and therefore what the prognosis is if you amputate?

 

Whatever decision you make will be made with love, and I don't think either one would be "wrong".

 

As I have to keep reminding myself with Wizard right now, the important thing is the quality of live they've had and are having and that they always know they are loved. again. susan (crying now for both of our little ones...)