Neuter Now Or Wait?

[Guest hvacman250]

Rocket has an appt for neuter tomorrow. Vet said he is old enough now, so why wait. Other grey savvy people say wait so he can "fill out" more.

 

Now I am second guessing myself and thinking of postponing it. If so, how long?

[kamsmom]

I am no expert but our lab was nuetered when he was only three months old. He is now two years old and hovers around 100 pounds. I would think that Rocket is "filled out" enough already. Hopefully someone with more experience and knowledge will jump in and give you a better answer.

[Burpdog]

I'm not sure. I'd need a lot of time to weigh the pros and cons Quick answer is I would probably wait a few months. Greys don't mature as quickly as many other breeds.

 

Found this:

Male Dog Neutering

 

In Australia and throughout much of the world it is currently recommended that male dogs are neutered at around 5-7 months of age and older (as far as the "older" goes, the closer to the 5-7 months of age mark the better - there is less chance of your dog developing a testicular or testosterone-dependant medical condition if he is desexed at a younger age).

 

The reasoning behind this 5-7 month age specification is one of anaesthetic safety for elective procedures.

 

When asked by owners why it is that a dog needs to wait until 5-7 months of age to be desexed, most veterinarians will simply say that it is much safer for them to wait until this age before undergoing a general anaesthetic procedure. The theory is that the liver and kidneys of very young animals are much less mature than those of older animals and therefore less capable of tolerating the effects of anaesthetic drugs and less effective at metabolising them and breaking them down and excreting them from the body. Younger animals are therefore expected to have prolonged recovery times and an increased risk of suffering from severe side effects, in particular liver and kidney damage, as a result of general anaesthesia. Consequently, most vets will choose not to anesthetize a young dog until at least 5 months of age for an elective procedure such as neutering.

 

Whether the 5-7 month age specification for general anaesthesia is valid nowadays (2008 onwards), however, is much less clear and is currently the subject of debate. The reason for the current desexing-age debate is that the 5-7 month age specification was determined ages ago, way back in the days when animal anaesthesia was nowhere near as safe as it is now and relied heavily upon drugs that were more cardiovascularly depressant than modern drugs (e.g. put more strain on the kidneys and liver) and required a fully-functioning, almost-adult liver and kidney to metabolize and excrete them from the body. Because modern animal anaesthetic drugs are so much safer on young animals than the old drugs used to be, there is increasing push to drop the age of desexing in veterinary practices. This puts us onto the topic of early age neutering (see next section - 3b).

 

Are there any disadvantages to desexing at the normal time of 5-7 months of age?

Just as there are disadvantages of desexing an animal at a very young age (see section 3b), there are also some disadvantages associated with desexing at the normal age of 5-7 months:

 

 

Some people find it inconvenient to wait until 5-7 months of age to desex.

 

There is a chance that an early-maturing dog may be able to mate and sire unwanted pups before this age.

 

For people who choose to have their pets microchipped during anaesthesia, there is an inconvenient wait of 5-7 months before this can be done. If it gets lost prior to this age, the unchipped dog may fail to find its way home.

 

Many of the behavioural issues commonly associated with entire male animals may become manifest before the time of the desexing age recommendations (e.g. cocking the leg to urinate). These behavioural problems may persist even after the animal is sterilized.

 

3b. Neutering puppies - information about the early spay and neuter of young dogs (puppy desexing).

 

As modern pet anaesthetics have become a lot safer, with fewer side effects, the debate about the recommended age of canine neutering has been reopened in the veterinary world with some vets now allowing their clients to opt for an early-age spay or neuter, provided they appreciate that there are greater, albeit minimal, anaesthetic risks to the very young pet when compared to the more mature pet. In these situations, cat and dog owners can opt to have their male and female pets desexed as young as 8-9 weeks of age (the vet chooses anaesthetic drugs that are not as cardiovascularly depressant and which do not rely as heavily upon extensive liver and kidney metabolism and excretion).

 

NOTE - in 1993, the AVMA (American Veterinary Medical Association) advised that it supported the early spay and neuter of young dogs and cats, recommending that puppies and kittens be spayed or neutered as early as 8-16 weeks of age.

 

The advantages of the early spay and neuter of young dogs:

Certainly, there are some obvious advantages to choosing to desex an animal earlier rather than later. These include the following:

 

People do not have to wait 5-7 months to desex their pets. The procedure can be over and done with earlier.

 

Dogs neutered very early will not attain sexual maturity and will therefore be unable to sire any pups of their own. This role in canine population control is why most shelters choose to neuter early.

 

It makes it possible for young pups (6-16 weeks old) to be sold by breeders and pet-shops already desexed. This again helps to reduce the incidence of irresponsible breeding - dogs sold already desexed cannot reproduce.

 

For owners who choose to get their pets microchipped during anaesthesia, there is no inconvenient wait of 5-7 months before this can be done.

 

Some of the behavioural problems and concerns commonly associated with entire male animals may be prevented altogether if the pup is desexed well before achieving sexual maturity (e.g. cocking the leg to urinate).

 

From a veterinary anaesthesia and surgery perspective, the duration of surgery and anaesthesia is much shorter for a smaller, younger animal than it is for a fully grown, mature animal. I take about 3-7 minutes to neuter a male pup of about 9 weeks of age compared to about 10-15 minutes for an older animal.

 

The post-anaesthetic recovery time is quicker and there is less bleeding associated with an early spay or neuter procedure.

 

From a veterinary business perspective, the shorter duration of surgery and anaesthesia time is good for business. More early age neuters can be performed in a day than mature dog neuters and less anaesthetic gas is used on each individual, thereby saving the practice money per procedure.

 

Routine, across-the-board, early spay and neuter by shelters avoids the need for a sterilisation contract to be signed between the shelter and the prospective pet owner. A sterilisation contract is a legal document signed by people who adopt young, non-desexed puppies and kittens, which declares that they will return to the shelter to have that dog or cat desexed when it has reached the recommended sterilisation age of 5-7 months. The problem with these sterilisation contracts is that, very often, people do not obey them (particularly if the animal seems to be "purebred"); they are rarely enforced by law and, consequently, the adopted animal is left undesexed and able to breed and the cycle of pet reproduction and dumped litters continues.

 

The disadvantages associated with the early spay and neuter of young dogs:

There are also several disadvantages to choosing to desex an animal earlier rather than later. Many of these disadvantages were outlined in the previous section (3a) when the reasons for establishing the 5-7 month desexing age were discussed and include:

 

Early age anaesthesia and desexing is never going to be as safe as performing the procedure on an older and more mature dog. Regardless of how safe modern anaesthetics have become, the liver and kidneys of younger animals are considered to be less mature than those of older animals and therefore less capable of tolerating the effects of anaesthetic drugs and less effective at metabolising them and breaking them down and excreting them from the body. Even though it is very uncommon, there will always be the occasional early age animal that suffers from potentially life-threatening side effects, in particular liver and kidney damage, as a result of young age anaesthesia.

 

There is an increased risk of severe hypothermia (cold body temperatures) and hypoglycemia (low blood sugar) occurring when young animals are anesthetized. This hypothermia predisposition is caused by the young animal's increased body surface area (higher area for heat to be lost), reduced ability to shiver and reduced body fat covering (fat insulates against heat loss). The predisposition towards hypoglycemia is the result of a reduced ability to produce glucose from stores of glycogen and body fat as well as the fact that these stores of fat and glycogen are smaller in the young animal.

 

Loss of testosterone production at a very early age, as a result of desexing, may result in extremely immature development of masculine characteristics and a significantly reduced body musculature.

 

Early neutering may result in retained juvenile behaviours inappropriate to the animal's age later on.

 

Desexing equates to a loss of breeding potential and valuable genetics. Many breeders choose to only desex their dogs after they have had some time to grow (after all, it is not possible to look at a tiny puppy and determine whether or not it will have the right color, conformation and temperament traits to be a breeding and showing dog). This allows the breeder time to determine whether or not the animal in question will be a valuable stud animal or not. Early age neutering prevents breeders from being able to accurately determine which pups will be valuable stud animals (it is too early to tell when they are only puppies).

 

Pups neutered very early will be completely unable to extrude their penises from their preputial sheaths throughout life. This can potentially result in urinary hygiene problems and an increased risk of preputial urine scalding and prepuce infections throughout life.

 

Early spaying and neutering will not 100% reduce pet overpopulation and dumping problems when a large proportion of dumped animals are not merely unwanted litters, but purpose-bought, older pets that owners have grown tired of, can't manage, can't train and so on. Those people, having divested themselves of a problem pet, then go and buy a new animal, thereby keeping the breeders of dogs and cats in good business and promoting the ongoing over-breeding of animals.

[Guest weycoolgrey]

We had Daisy spayed when she was 7 months old.

[Guest Energy11]

When I worked at the vets in Florida, they neutered as soon as possible.

[Guest hvacman250]

We had Daisy spayed when she was 7 months old.

 

...and? LOL

 

Is she the same build as your other racing grey? Any noticeable difference since you neutered at 7 months?

[Burpdog]

I saw in one article, that if the neutering is done before a certain time the dog will actually grow larger as testosterone is needed for stopping growth. Since all the dogs I've had were neutered as an adult, I've not personally seen early neuter results.

[Guest KyGrey]

The vet who did Bandit's (1/2 greyhound) neuter told me to wait until he was about 6 months old. I've always heard that's about the right time.

[Guest Hoolyghans]

Spike was neutured at around 12 weeks and now at 16 months he is a *big* boy. Still has that gangly teenage look but he's tall.

He's bigger than the 3 littermates we have contact with.

This is him next to Abba who is on the big side (65 lbs) for a girl

 

And this is him (left) next to one of his male littermates

 

 

He does have an incredibly teeny weenie I don't know if this will have any medical implications down the road but gosh....it's really really tiny.

Not that I'm in the habit of measuring such things but, um, it's really apparent.

I don't have any pictures of that....

 

[ahicks51]

There's some research out there that shows that the incidence of some cancers may be reduced in dogs if neutered after the age of 1. If there are no girls around and there's no other reason to neuter, you might put it off a few months.

[kamsmom]

He does have an incredibly teeny weenie I don't know if this will have any medical implications down the road but gosh....it's really really tiny.

Not that I'm in the habit of measuring such things but, um, it's really apparent.

I don't have any pictures of that....

 

 

This has me cracking up!

[Ullaluv]

Sex hormones are involved in he development and maturation of the skeleton, as well as sexual maturity. Early neutering will slow the fusion of the growth plates. That's why these dogs tend to be tall and gangly. In a dog that might be involved in performance events or coursing, this could be a disadvantage, though I don't know that ir would make a lot of difference to a family pet.

[turbotaina]

.....

He does have an incredibly teeny weenie I don't know if this will have any medical implications down the road but gosh....it's really really tiny.

Not that I'm in the habit of measuring such things but, um, it's really apparent.

I don't have any pictures of that....

 

My 83 year old grandma, the epitome of a fine Southern grandma, found it necessary to comment on the size of my dog's weenie. "He sure don't have much there in the waterworks department, does he?"

[sweetdogs]

It's hard to find objective info on the right time medically to spay/neuter because there's so much push to end the homeless pet problem. The message is spay/neuter NOW. They used to try to link early procedures with excessive bone growth and higher rates of OS, but of course we kind of know that's not the case with our retired racers that are very infrequently neutered early.

 

Since it's not a question of if but when, & you're not going to leave him out in the yard on a chain all day , I'd be inclined to wait until he's a year old. He won't be fully mature even then but it will leave him with all the hormones his body should have for growth for a while longer. Of course, I am not a puppy person & I won't have to deal with him.

 

Another perspective on why oops puppies have a different, less muscled look to them is that besides being intact for so long, racing pups get a TON of free play & exercise when they're young & growing. I visited the puppy farm as part of the expo a few weeks ago & one of the most striking things about the pups was their constant motion in the runs. Back & forth, walking, trotting, running, sprinting. May have been just because their lawn was littered with visitors, but I doubt too many pet people can give their puppies that much exercise. Just my thoughts...

[GreyAcresMom]

I have one of each...both girls: so I am not sure if it is the same.

 

I had also heard that they will stay smaller if spayed/neutered early.

Kala Blu is a tiny dainty thing. I think tho with the face she has, this the way she is/was ment to be.

Jac-fooy is a huge girl. Around 80# deep..deep..chest. The three legs she has are as big and buff as the ex-racers.

Both were done at the 6 month mark.

The Pres of GPA was a track vet for 17-18 years and she asked that we wait until the 6 month mark.

I hope that this helps.

[Guest nerak254]

I had this conversation with DD#2 when her Golden was in that stage. MY question is why in the world would you want to wait? 1. He's not going to be shown, 2. he's not going to be a stud after finishing his racing career, 3. whoever says wait isn't going to be dealing with the adolecent boy hormone crap.

 

The result of waiting is having a guy, whose head is perfect because you did wait, that is trying to have a relationship with every pillow he meets . Get thee to the vet ASAP!!!!!!!

 

Spike was neutured at around 12 weeks and now at 16 months he is a *big* boy. Still has that gangly teenage look but he's tall.

He's bigger than the 3 littermates we have contact with.

This is him next to Abba who is on the big side (65 lbs) for a girl

 

And this is him (left) next to one of his male littermates

 

 

He does have an incredibly teeny weenie I don't know if this will have any medical implications down the road but gosh....it's really really tiny.

Not that I'm in the habit of measuring such things but, um, it's really apparent.

I don't have any pictures of that....

 

 

Less lipstick and olives?

Edited June 23, 2009 by nerak254

[Guest Greyt_dog_lover]

Since it doesnt look like there are too many guys around this thread, I will stand up for the guy. Ladies, its not the size of the wand, but the magic inside that counts.

 

Chad

[Guest nerak254]

Since it doesnt look like there are too many guys around this thread, I will stand up for the guy. Ladies, its not the size of the wand, but the magic inside that counts.

 

Chad

 

:rotfl

 

 

[kamsmom]

Since it doesnt look like there are too many guys around this thread, I will stand up for the guy. Ladies, its not the size of the wand, but the magic inside that counts.

 

Chad

 

 

Guys are so funny...

[Guest KennelMom]

For my personal pets, I would wait until they were at least 12 months old, preferably older than 18months old. But then, if I had a young dog like that I'd be looking to do some performance sports with him and would want to make sure he was completely grown before lopping off the ol' puppy makers.

 

I've not been convinced either way that early vs late spay/neuter will have a significant impact on the quality or quantity of life of a dog...and I do support early spay/neuter for all pets placed into pet homes. Put it this way - if the dog were living with me, the balls could stay until the dog was grown. If I were placing a dog in a home, it would be spayed/neutered before it ever left my doorstep regardless of the age. I know the dog won't be making any puppies here. Once it leaves, I lose that control.

 

If you can guarantee he won't sire a litter, I would wait. I see no benefit to early neuter other than the prevention of unwanted puppies. Simply having the equipment does not mean a dog should or will have undesirable or rude or unacceptable behavior. I am more inclined to leave a dog intact longer than a bitch.

[Wonder]

hmmm......wonder if that's known from experience?

 

[Guest Siriusly]

Spike was neutured at around 12 weeks and now at 16 months he is a *big* boy. Still has that gangly teenage look but he's tall.

 

He does have an incredibly teeny weenie I don't know if this will have any medical implications down the road but gosh....it's really really tiny.

Not that I'm in the habit of measuring such things but, um, it's really apparent.

I don't have any pictures of that....

 

 

 

Orion was neutered at just shy of 4 months and he's got the teeny weenie, too! He likes to roach and we always joke that he doesn't have anything to be showing off like that! Other than that, he's really tall and lanky. He has no extra body fat on him and we've tried to fatten him up. He's the tallest of our three and is right up there will some of the tallest greys I know. He's got killer muscle definition but no bulk. He's sickinjured right now and the lack of bulk is a bad thing. He's lost a ton of weight and every bit of it shows as he's skeletal. His current condition notwithstanding (and not related), it has never caused him any problems and the vets have said he's fine.

[Guest hvacman250]

He, of course, will be a pet only. No coursing and no racing; only running he will get is with his 3 brothers and sisters (greys) in a huge back yard.

 

We do foster, and I prefer females, so I do worry about a female going into heat here and something heppening. I could foster males only, or make 100% sure there is no potential contact with a girl until she is vetted.

 

My concern is for his health. Would he be a healthier if I postponed neutering until 12 months old? 18 months old? That was my main concern.

 

Geez, now I dont know what to do.

 

Oh, and Rocket said ... Its not how deep you fish, but how you wiggle your worm.

Edited June 23, 2009 by hvacman250

[gazehund]

What Heather (KennelMom) said. No pressing urgency to have him done. I would wait until he was at least a year old, but I like 18 months better.

[Guest KennelMom]

My concern is for his health. Would he be a healthier if I postponed neutering until 12 months old? 18 months old? That was my main concern.

 

I've not personally read anything to convince me there is any benefit to neutering early (other than population control). It's been a while since I've really delved into the info, but what I remember from my research is that there is really only possible negatives to an early neuter. Nothing for sure either way, but I would personally prefer to err on the side of caution. Why tinker around with the hormones of a growing body if you don't have to.

 

I think with females, there's a bit more research to support an early spay (before the first season) and, of course, pyometria is a risk in any intact bitch...so I'm much more comfortable spaying a girl right away (plus, who wants to deal with a bitch in season...PITA!!!)

 

Geez, now I dont know what to do

 

I don't really think there is a wrong decision.

 

Oh, and Rocket said ... Its not how deep you fish, but how you wiggle your worm.

 

Rocket...I think you are too young to know about such things!

Edited June 23, 2009 by KennelMom