turbotaina Posted May 21, 2009 Share Posted May 21, 2009 Hi all, We've got a foster up in our NE chapter that is losing weight like crazy. He's a 2 y/o male, came off with a femoral fracture in February, from what I can tell. We brought him in about 3 weeks ago. He raced at 76.5-77lbs, is currently down to 66 His bloodwork is fine, trypsinogen, B12 and Folate, fine (so, no EPI or pancreatic insufficiency and he's absorbing cobalamine and folate). The vet he is seeing is stumped. Fecal is negative and no giardia present (zinc test). The dog has not had a formed, firm bowel movement since coming into foster care 3 weeks ago and had completely liquid diarrhea for a while. Blood was present in feces once, but has since cleared. He has been on metronodazole, tylan and pyrantal. Stool has improved moderately to pudding consistency and foster describes it as "greasy". Overgrowth of bacteria was noted (hence the tylan). So, the vet (who is one of the older, gruff types, near on retirement and hard to talk to), seems to be at his end and is going to consult with a collegue of his. I am trying to get all the info together and send it over to OSU to see what they think. At the moment, I'm leaning towards either a severe food allergy or IBD. We have changed him from a chicken based kibble to a fish-based/grain free kibble. So - those of you with IBD dogs - did your dogs present in a similar fashion? Anyone have any other ideas as to what this could be? Thanks for any and all info/suggestions. Quote Meredith with Heyokha (HUS Me Teddy) and Crow (Mike Milbury). Missing Turbo (Sendahl Boss), Pancho, JoJo, and "Fat Stacks" Juana, the psycho kitty. Canku wakan kin manipi."Those who can make you believe absurdities can make you commit atrocities." - Voltaire Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dante2zoe Posted May 21, 2009 Share Posted May 21, 2009 Sounds almost like my first dog. Never heard of any issues at the track, but he just couldn't eat a total kibble diet. Nothing worked. Did all the unique proteins, no grain, yadda yadda. Tried tylan, flayl, probiotics, pumpkin, yougurt and something else. Finally put him on a raw diet (vet said we ran out of options). Started slow and he improved. He has been on a raw diet (no skin, no extra fat, no veggies, gizzards okay, liver no so much) and his poo is good 98% of the time. He did regain his lost weight and is a happy camper! It has been over 3 years now. Quote Cindy with Miss Fancypants, Paris Bueller, Zeke, and Angus Dante (Dg's Boyd), Zoe (In a While), Brady (Devilish Effect), Goose (BG Shotgun), Maverick (BG ShoMe), Maggie (All Trades Jax), Sherman (LNB Herman Bad) and Indy (BYB whippet) forever in my heart The flame that burns the brightest, burns the fastest and leaves the biggest shadow Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Batmom Posted May 21, 2009 Share Posted May 21, 2009 What was his condition like when he first came into adoption? What's his basic bloodwork like? How much is he eating per day? Which kibbles has he eaten (past and present)? Quote Star aka Starz Ovation (Ronco x Oneco Maggie*, litter #48538), Coco aka Low Key (Kiowa Mon Manny x Party Hardy, litter # 59881), and mom in IllinoisWe miss Reko Batman (Trouper Zeke x Marque Louisiana), 11/15/95-6/29/06, Rocco the thistledown whippet, 04/29/93-10/14/08, Reko Zema (Mo Kick x Reko Princess), 8/16/98-4/18/10, the most beautiful girl in the whole USA, my good egg Joseph aka Won by a Nose (Oneco Cufflink x Buy Back), 09/22/2003-03/01/2013, and our gentle sweet Gidget (Digitizer, Dodgem by Design x Sobe Mulberry), 1/29/2006-11/22/2014, gone much too soon. Never forgetting CJC's Buckshot, 1/2/07-10/25/10. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sweetdogs Posted May 21, 2009 Share Posted May 21, 2009 Our group placed a young dog a few years ago who was thin when he came off the track but started losing more weight while eating a ton of food once in a home. He had a little SA & was placed with a new (& nervous) greyhound owner so we thought it was behavioral/situational. But when he got down to skin & bones, we took him to our vet who diagnosed him with cardiomyopathy. We lost him a few months later. Just a thought & I hope it's something fixable. Quote Deirdre with Conor (Daring Pocobueno), Keeva (Kiowa Mimi Mona), & kittehs Gemma & robthomas. Our beloved angels Faolin & Liath, & kittehs Mona & Caesar. Remembering Bobby, Doc McCoy, & Chip McGrath. "He feeds you, pets you, adores you, collects your poop in a bag. There's only one explanation: you are a hairy little god." Nick Galifinakis Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
turbotaina Posted May 21, 2009 Author Share Posted May 21, 2009 What was his condition like when he first came into adoption? What's his basic bloodwork like? How much is he eating per day? Which kibbles has he eaten (past and present)? Skinny Everything perfectly normal Have to check with the foster - don't know off the top of my head. He was on bland: chicken & rice (didn't go over), beef & rice (didn't go over), Kirkland Chicken & Rice and now a grain-free fish formula (whose name is escaping me). I'm having the foster home nix both chicken and rice in the event that either one was the culprit. BTW, as far as energy level goes, he's sick so he's probably not as energetic as he could be, but he doesn't seem stressed out and has begun playing with toys. He's not lethargic. Quote Meredith with Heyokha (HUS Me Teddy) and Crow (Mike Milbury). Missing Turbo (Sendahl Boss), Pancho, JoJo, and "Fat Stacks" Juana, the psycho kitty. Canku wakan kin manipi."Those who can make you believe absurdities can make you commit atrocities." - Voltaire Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Batmom Posted May 21, 2009 Share Posted May 21, 2009 One other thing to watch for is vegetable oils. Lots of dog foods have them, and some dogs don't get along with one or all types. Most common are canola and sunflower. If all else fails, might be worth putting him on ZD and steamed fish like RobinM has done with her Beau. It'll be pricey for awhile, but might get him stabilized to where you and vet have time to figure things out. Quote Star aka Starz Ovation (Ronco x Oneco Maggie*, litter #48538), Coco aka Low Key (Kiowa Mon Manny x Party Hardy, litter # 59881), and mom in IllinoisWe miss Reko Batman (Trouper Zeke x Marque Louisiana), 11/15/95-6/29/06, Rocco the thistledown whippet, 04/29/93-10/14/08, Reko Zema (Mo Kick x Reko Princess), 8/16/98-4/18/10, the most beautiful girl in the whole USA, my good egg Joseph aka Won by a Nose (Oneco Cufflink x Buy Back), 09/22/2003-03/01/2013, and our gentle sweet Gidget (Digitizer, Dodgem by Design x Sobe Mulberry), 1/29/2006-11/22/2014, gone much too soon. Never forgetting CJC's Buckshot, 1/2/07-10/25/10. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
turbotaina Posted May 21, 2009 Author Share Posted May 21, 2009 Thanks, Jey. I'll get the name of the kibble he's on and see if there's anything there we should be watching for. But yeah, a lot of brands like to use vegetable oils.. Quote Meredith with Heyokha (HUS Me Teddy) and Crow (Mike Milbury). Missing Turbo (Sendahl Boss), Pancho, JoJo, and "Fat Stacks" Juana, the psycho kitty. Canku wakan kin manipi."Those who can make you believe absurdities can make you commit atrocities." - Voltaire Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ZoomDoggy Posted May 21, 2009 Share Posted May 21, 2009 Has he has an abdominal ultrasound? Quote ~Aimee, with Flower, Alan, Queenie, & Spodee Odee! And forever in my heart: Tipper, Sissy, Chancy, Marla, Dazzle, Alimony, and Boo. This list is too damned long. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
turbotaina Posted May 21, 2009 Author Share Posted May 21, 2009 Has he has an abdominal ultrasound? Not yet. I'm guessing that will be our next step. Quote Meredith with Heyokha (HUS Me Teddy) and Crow (Mike Milbury). Missing Turbo (Sendahl Boss), Pancho, JoJo, and "Fat Stacks" Juana, the psycho kitty. Canku wakan kin manipi."Those who can make you believe absurdities can make you commit atrocities." - Voltaire Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Burpdog Posted May 21, 2009 Share Posted May 21, 2009 I'd worm him with 5 days of panacur to start. Have you tried raw? Quote Diane & The Senior Gang Burpdog Biscuits Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest mandm Posted May 21, 2009 Share Posted May 21, 2009 I bet he didn't have this problem at the track, since he was retired with a broken leg. So I would guess one of two possibilities, both pretty easy to fix without expensive diagnostics: 1. Whipworm - I'm sure he's been wormed & tested & wormed & tested. But those whipworm are real elusive and cause the symptoms you are seeing. I'd worm him again with Panacur, 3 rounds, at least 5 days each, timed for whipworm, initial, at 3 wks, then at 3 mos. And then put him on monthly yr round Interceptor. 2. Diet - He probably did fine on the track diet. Someone could check with his trainer, if available. So I would replicate his track diet as much as possible. The kibble he was fed + raw lean ground beef, maybe 50/50, or even more beef than kibble. Not necessarily a cheap diet, but cheaper than weekly vet visits. If he does well on that diet, foster could gradually reduce the beef. But I have found that sometimes they just can't eat a mostly kibble diet ever. It would be convenient if he could be placed with a rawfeeder, either as a foster or permanently. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Taras Posted May 21, 2009 Share Posted May 21, 2009 has he been tested for TBD . BeBe lost almost 20 lbs plus lots of loose stool when she 1st came to me , so we had her tested and found she had babisisa(sp?) after she was treated she started to put weight on . Just a thought. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest mandm Posted May 21, 2009 Share Posted May 21, 2009 has he been tested for TBD . BeBe lost almost 20 lbs plus lots of loose stool when she 1st came to me , so we had her tested and found she had babisisa(sp?) after she was treated she started to put weight on . Just a thought. Excellent suggestion, especially if he is a FL or East Coast dog, and even if he is not. I've had 2 greyhounds with Babesia and both had GI problems. Don't know if that is coincidence or not. A tick panel is relatively easy & inexpensive, cheaper than an ultrasound. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
turbotaina Posted May 21, 2009 Author Share Posted May 21, 2009 OK, trying to respond quickly here - Have not yet tried raw, but he went to a nutrionist that the foster knows yesterday, so I should hear something back on that today. Has been wormed, but perhaps a longer course would be advisable. Has had snap 4, but not tested for babesia or other TBDs. I have had babesia on my mind and we'll likely test for it through NCSU. I just got some very good info from my local vet off whom I've been bouncing ideas. She so far agrees with everything Gruff Vet has done and she made some additional suggestions. Hopefully we'll get this under control so this poor dog will stop losing weight Thanks for all your suggestions so far! Quote Meredith with Heyokha (HUS Me Teddy) and Crow (Mike Milbury). Missing Turbo (Sendahl Boss), Pancho, JoJo, and "Fat Stacks" Juana, the psycho kitty. Canku wakan kin manipi."Those who can make you believe absurdities can make you commit atrocities." - Voltaire Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Burpdog Posted May 21, 2009 Share Posted May 21, 2009 Has been wormed, but perhaps a longer course would be advisable You mention pyrantel, but not panacur. Some dogs cannot handle kibble. However, if he has worms, nothing you do will help. Quote Diane & The Senior Gang Burpdog Biscuits Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest koolaidnconner Posted May 21, 2009 Share Posted May 21, 2009 I would try putting him on Z/D ultra allergen free. It is a prescription diet that has nothing the dog should be allergic too. My Conner has severe IBD and Z/D has done him wonders. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
turbotaina Posted May 21, 2009 Author Share Posted May 21, 2009 (edited) Has been wormed, but perhaps a longer course would be advisable You mention pyrantel, but not panacur. Some dogs cannot handle kibble. However, if he has worms, nothing you do will help. True. To be honest, I'm not sure if the dog has had panacur yet. Between Gruff Vet not looking at the file when talking to me and busy foster mom simultaneously talking to me and her dogs, I've yet to get the full info. Panacur is usually our first choice when we run into a problem like this. I do know that he has at least had Drontal Plus in addition to the pyrantel. Edited May 21, 2009 by turbotaina Quote Meredith with Heyokha (HUS Me Teddy) and Crow (Mike Milbury). Missing Turbo (Sendahl Boss), Pancho, JoJo, and "Fat Stacks" Juana, the psycho kitty. Canku wakan kin manipi."Those who can make you believe absurdities can make you commit atrocities." - Voltaire Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
turbotaina Posted May 21, 2009 Author Share Posted May 21, 2009 Huh. Just heard from the foster after trying a food the nutritionist suggested: Wenaewe. Pup had perfect poops today... Quote Meredith with Heyokha (HUS Me Teddy) and Crow (Mike Milbury). Missing Turbo (Sendahl Boss), Pancho, JoJo, and "Fat Stacks" Juana, the psycho kitty. Canku wakan kin manipi."Those who can make you believe absurdities can make you commit atrocities." - Voltaire Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GeorgeofNE Posted May 21, 2009 Share Posted May 21, 2009 Huh. Just heard from the foster after trying a food the nutritionist suggested: Wenaewe. Pup had perfect poops today... Whooo hoooooo! I was going to weigh in that the Panacur helped George a lot when I first got him, but...maybe not necessary. Good news. Oh, and Meredith? George has L.S. Just thought I should let you know... Susan Quote Susan, Hamish, Mister Bigglesworth and Nikita Stanislav. Missing Ming, George, and Buck Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
turbotaina Posted May 21, 2009 Author Share Posted May 21, 2009 Huh. Just heard from the foster after trying a food the nutritionist suggested: Wenaewe. Pup had perfect poops today... Whooo hoooooo! I was going to weigh in that the Panacur helped George a lot when I first got him, but...maybe not necessary. Good news. Oh, and Meredith? George has L.S. Just thought I should let you know... Susan Aw, poor George. Are you doing depo-medrol shots? Quote Meredith with Heyokha (HUS Me Teddy) and Crow (Mike Milbury). Missing Turbo (Sendahl Boss), Pancho, JoJo, and "Fat Stacks" Juana, the psycho kitty. Canku wakan kin manipi."Those who can make you believe absurdities can make you commit atrocities." - Voltaire Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GeorgeofNE Posted May 21, 2009 Share Posted May 21, 2009 Huh. Just heard from the foster after trying a food the nutritionist suggested: Wenaewe. Pup had perfect poops today... Whooo hoooooo! I was going to weigh in that the Panacur helped George a lot when I first got him, but...maybe not necessary. Good news. Oh, and Meredith? George has L.S. Just thought I should let you know... Susan Aw, poor George. Are you doing depo-medrol shots? No. The specialist I went to said that she won't use steroids for LS since the condition is actually bones pressing on nerves, and that steroids only provide a temporary relief if there is inflammation of the soft tissue, and the side effects on the rest of the body (particulary with a steroid injection) are not worth it. Quote Susan, Hamish, Mister Bigglesworth and Nikita Stanislav. Missing Ming, George, and Buck Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tbhounds Posted May 21, 2009 Share Posted May 21, 2009 Glad the Wenaewe worked----pretty sure it's because it has a higher fiber content. Not a huge fan of the Hills foods but just FYI the W/D works well for diarrhea too--it's very high in fiber Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dmswartzfager Posted May 22, 2009 Share Posted May 22, 2009 Well, I was going to offer to ship the bag of z/d ultra hypoallergenic and some cans, but (crossing fingers) you may not need it. Quote Deanna with galgo Willow, greyhound Finn, and DH BrianRemembering Marcus (11/16/93 - 11/16/05), Tyler (2/3/01 - 11/6/06), Frazzle (7/2/94 - 7/23/07), Carrie (5/8/96 - 2/24/09), Blitz (3/28/97 - 6/10/11), Symbra (12/30/02 - 7/16/13), Scarlett (10/10/02 - 08/31/13), Wren (5/25/01 - 5/19/14), Rooster (3/7/07 - 8/28/18), Q (2008 - 8/31/19), and Momma Mia (2002 - 12/9/19). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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