We Are Back From Specialist

[RobinM]

Dispite Beau eating close to 3.5 pound os tilapia a day, he has 7 pounds in one week. I knew he looked bad, I don't think anyone was buying just how bad. He is 53 pounds. His body condition is 3/9. How sad is that. he is wasting away before my eyes.

 

She took blood to check his proteins, (they were fine on 12/28)

 

I have to drop off fecal for salmonella, campylobacter, cryptosporidum to name a few and urine.

 

Possibly adding imuran vv. more aggressive pred.

 

She gave me a homecooked recipe and also a 15 pound bag of Z/D which I swore he would not eat. He ate 1 cup of it DRY when we got home. She said it was OK to add tilapia to that as well.

 

So until Monday, we keep doing what we are doing but I am scared that he is wasting away.

 

 

[rascalsmom]

You're in my thoughts and prayers, Robin. You and Beau both.

[Neighsayer]

Hope he keeps eating. What happens on Monday?

[Guest Vinnie]

Oh Robin, how scary this must be for you. I hope they are able to get a better idea with this new round of tests. Glad that he is eating, hope it sticks with him though. So glad you didn't wait - a mom always knows. Keeping you in our thoughts and prayers, sending hugs and scritches.

[Batmom]

Curious about the homecooked recipe -- not to critique vis-a-vis Beau's case, just curious as to what's in it that I might be able to use someday.

 

That is a big weight loss.

 

If he will *consistently* eat 3.5 lbs. of fish a day, he should at least stabilize.

 

Sending ongoing prayers.

[ahicks51]

From this:

 

http://www.petrx.com/index.asp?PageAction=...&ProdID=736

 

the first ingredient listed in Z/D ULTRA Allergen Free is starch. If there's D, I would suggest that would be the reason why.

[RobinM]

The home cooked (which we will not do if he is eating the Z/D)

 

This is for a 65 pound dog.

 

1) Cooked white potato, (1.5) - may substitie rice, oatmeal, barley, sweet potato or pasta

2) Cooked tilapia (1 pound)

3) Sunflower oil 1tbsp.

4) dicalcium phosphate 2 tsp.

5) lite salt ( 1 teaspoon)

6) Adult (human grade such as 1-a day) vitamin supplement- 1 tablet

 

grein the lite salt, dicalcium phosphate together. Cook the potato and meat separately. Combine fish, potato, oil and mix well with ground up powder. Cover and refrigerate any unused portion. Can make 2-3 days worth at a time and store in fridge.

 

This is one days worth.

 

 

From this:

 

If there's D, I would suggest that would be the reason why.

 

reason why what???

[duncan41]

Any dialogue about a nutritionist? Any dialogue at all? Praying for you and Beau.

[Guest myjazzy]

Hill's/Science Diet is not my favorite food, but if Beau eats it and it agrees with him (no soft-serve poop), it will at least be getting some calories into him, which he desperately needs. After he stabilizes, you can find something better for him to eat. Please keep us posted.

 

The first ingredient may be starch, but when my tummy is not feeling up to snuff, I crave mashed potatoes (which is basically starch), so it may be soothing to his stomach too.

[RobinM]

Hill's/Science Diet is not my favorite food, but if Beau eats it and it agrees with him (no soft-serve poop), it will at least be getting some calories into him, which he desperately needs. After he stabilizes, you can find something better for him to eat. Please keep us posted.

 

The first ingredient may be starch, but when my tummy is not feeling up to snuff, I crave mashed potatoes (which is basically starch), so it may be soothing to his stomach too.

 

The problem is that the amount of the tilapia he was eating was close to 1700 calories and he still lost 7 pounds in a week.

 

let's pray that the z/d will absorb differently.

[Rickiesmom]

Robin, just seeing this. I am kind of surprised pasta is in the list since it's typically wheat based, but perhaps this is an all-purpose recipe and you are choosing other starches.

 

Hugs to Beau. I'd be a wreck too if one of my dogs was dropping weight like that!

[Jackandgrey]

I'm glad he ate Robin. I know how distressing this is. I have all parts that can cross, crossed for your sweet boy.

[Guest PiagetsMom]

I'll be thinking of you and hoping for a good weekend for you and Beau.

[Guest myjazzy]

Hill's/Science Diet is not my favorite food, but if Beau eats it and it agrees with him (no soft-serve poop), it will at least be getting some calories into him, which he desperately needs. After he stabilizes, you can find something better for him to eat. Please keep us posted.

 

The first ingredient may be starch, but when my tummy is not feeling up to snuff, I crave mashed potatoes (which is basically starch), so it may be soothing to his stomach too.

 

The problem is that the amount of the tilapia he was eating was close to 1700 calories and he still lost 7 pounds in a week.

 

let's pray that the z/d will absorb differently.

 

I hope he absorbs it better too. Is he going back to the vet on Monday, or are you just talking to the vet to get results back?

[Guest Becki]

Oh my, that is a lot of weight, Robin. I hope this food will do the trick for him.

[ahicks51]

From this:

 

If there's D, I would suggest that would be the reason why.

 

reason why what???

 

From a post I made January 10th:

 

"Take the starch out. Absolutely no starch, which means NO grains, and NO potato."

 

Stop me if I'm wrong, but the first signs of appetite improvement and well-formed stools you've seen in some time were the result of the tilapia, yes? The Wellness Fish and Sweet Potato you fed has pushed things back towards soft-serve. The ingredients are as follows:

 

Deboned Whitefish, Ground Barley (de-hulled), Rye Flour, Menhaden Fish Meal, Ground Pearled Barley, Sweet Potatoes, Canola Oil (preserved with mixed tocopherols, a natural source of Vitamin E), Tomato Pomace, Natural Fish Flavor, Ground Flaxseed, Dicalcium Phosphate, Calcium Carbonate, Potassium Chloride, Minerals [Zinc Sulfate, Zinc Proteinate, Iron Proteinate, Ferrous Sulfate, Copper Proteinate, Copper Sulfate, Manganese Proteinate, Manganese Sulfate, Sodium Selenite], Vitamins [beta-Carotene, Vitamin E Supplement, Ascorbic Acid (Vitamin C), Vitamin A Supplement, Niacin, Calcium Pantothenate, Riboflavin, Vitamin D-3 Supplement, Pyridoxine Hydrochloride, Thiamine Mononitrate, Folic Acid, Biotin, Vitamin B-12 Supplement], Choline Chloride, Taurine, Mixed Tocopherols (a natural preservative).

 

The sources of starch in that have been highlighted. You went from zero starch (fish) to "some starch" (Wellness) to "ZOMG I can't believe it's not starch" Z/D.

 

If I'm right, you're going to see stool quality diminish when you see the Z/D come to pass. I hope I'm wrong, and that it improves, but if I'm right, I would submit that starch is your problem. (While there are certainly many other commonalities than starch- too many components, as per Batmom, there is a plausible mechanism for the starch to be at fault.)

[Guest ss556]

I can only say good luck and I hope that things take a turn for the better. Come on Beau Beau, you can get better. Hugs, prayers, scritches and white light.

[Batmom]

Mmmmmm, don't freak and give up on the tilapia too soon. He wasn't eating that much tilapia every day of the week, remember? Some days he ate a lot, some days not much. To maintain, he has to eat a big lot of it every day, not just every other day ......

 

How does he seem to feel, Robin?

 

 

 

 

Gotta respect AJ's comments because he has some experience and a lot of reading there, and it makes sense to look at the most prevalent food ingredients first. At the same time, for one of my dogs (not Zema), the allergen was one of the lesser ingredients. And I find that for us, fats are more likely to produce a stool problem than the different types of carbs/starches. Hoping that the fish and/or Z/D will work for him so you don't have to think about any of that stuff.

[Guest myjazzy]

I was reading up some on the z/d. It is formulated for both allergies and food intolerance. Their claim is that they use only one source of protein, but they break the proteins down into such tiny pieces that they avoid detection by the immune system. They also claim that the only other ingredients are potato and soyben oil, and that allergy to potatoes is rare in dogs. The last claim is high digestibility. The other thing I found interesting is that they make a low allergen z/d and an ultra allergen z/d formula. Not sure what the difference is. Which did the vet send Beau home with?

 

Do I believe everything I read, no. But I think it may be worth a try, especially if Beau will eat it. The proof will be in the pudding, so to speak.

 

Again, hoping Beau has a good weekend where he eats lots and has firm poops.

[RobinM]

Mmmmmm, don't freak and give up on the tilapia too soon. He wasn't eating that much tilapia every day of the week, remember? Some days he ate a lot, some days not much. To maintain, he has to eat a big lot of it every day, not just every other day ......

 

How does he seem to feel, Robin?

 

 

 

 

Gotta respect AJ's comments because he has some experience and a lot of reading there, and it makes sense to look at the most prevalent food ingredients first. At the same time, for one of my dogs (not Zema), the allergen was one of the lesser ingredients. And I find that for us, fats are more likely to produce a stool problem than the different types of carbs/starches. Hoping that the fish and/or Z/D will work for him so you don't have to think about any of that stuff.

 

Pretty much since Tuesday, he has been eating A LOT of fish a day. I know what I am cooking. He is basically eating a fish which is usually anywhere between .65 lb to 1.5 lb each time.

 

As far as loose poops after the wellness, I would expect that after any change in diet. regarless of what was in it. That's par for the course. Change food drastically or add in something until they get use to it, and there is a change of poop.

 

Or, he isn't tolerating it.

 

it's not working with just tilapia, he lost 7 pounds in a week.

 

Plan B.

 

 

I was reading up some on the z/d. It is formulated for both allergies and food intolerance. Their claim is that they use only one source of protein, but they break the proteins down into such tiny pieces that they avoid detection by the immune system. They also claim that the only other ingredients are potato and soyben oil, and that allergy to potatoes is rare in dogs. The last claim is high digestibility. The other thing I found interesting is that they make a low allergen z/d and an ultra allergen z/d formula. Not sure what the difference is. Which did the vet send Beau home with?

 

Do I believe everything I read, no. But I think it may be worth a try, especially if Beau will eat it. The proof will be in the pudding, so to speak.

 

Again, hoping Beau has a good weekend where he eats lots and has firm poops.

 

Ultra allergan was sent home.

[PrairieProf]

What about giving Beau digestive enzymes to help him absorb nutrients from whatever food he is eating? I don't know if they have anything in them that would upset his system (though we're only talking 3/4 teaspoon per day anyway with the stuff I give Beth, Fresh Digest which is available at Petco). I did a quick online search and it did seem that they were being recommended for dogs and cats with IBD, or at least not contraindicated.

[Guest luckydog]

Was this specialist able to tell if Beau was absorbing calories from what he is eating?

[GreyKarma]

I am so happy he is eating. Continued prayers for Beau.

[Guest IrskasMom]

 

 

There are never enough Hugs and Prayers for Beau

[crazygang]

praying Beau puts some weight on and feels better soon