Question About Religion And Animals

[Forevermybabies]

Word.

[Guest argolola]

As a Christian, I don't think God gives us "proof" of lots of things, because otherwise there would be no reason to have faith.

 

I wholeheartedly believe that animals will be in Heaven. As mentioned earlier, the lion and the lamb are in the Bible. We know God loves the animals and not a sparrow falls that He doesn't know about. I believe the Greyhound is one of His most beautiful creations.

[Guest ArtysPeople]

Pope John Paul II: 'animals possess a soul'

 

When Pope John Paul II declared in a public audience in 1990 that 'also the animals possess a soul and men must love and feel solidarity with our smaller brethren' . . .

 

That's really interesting, because I spent a bit of time yesterday searching official Catholic church websites (catholic.org, ewtn.com) and Google for an "official" answer, and none of them spit that gem out. I wonder if the Church is having difficulty integrating it into its teachings, or is ignoring it. Benedict was known for being very conservative before he became Pope, so I wouldn't be surprised if he is quashing that teaching a bit. I'm really looking forward to hearing what the school's response is.

 

ETA: the first set of keywords I was trying with my searches were "animals" and "soul" so they really should have returned that hit.

Edited January 11, 2009 by ArtysPeople

[Guest KennelMom]

As I am not Christian, let alone Catholic, I don't believe in Heaven at all. I do not believe that souls simply dissipate after death, but continue on in different forms. I do believe that animals have souls and that their souls are on the same journey that every soul is on. I believe in re-incarnation and I think we have all lived lifetimes as animals and most of us will probably do so again. Each lifetime we live is to teach us new lessons, so we choose what form to come back as to best learn those lessons.

 

I pretty much believe this too. But, I am a non-denominational Christian. I believe the Bible is man-made...perhaps with some Divine influence...but definitely with a lot of human and political inflence...so there is a lot that isn't in it and a lot that's in it that probably isn't as important to God as we think it is. I also believe there is more than one path to God, regardless of the last form one's spirit had on earth.

 

As for the Catholics and whether or not animals have souls...well, it's usually best if I when it comes to Catholicism. Everyone is entitled to their own beliefs and who am I to say the Catholics are wrong. I can only say that many of their doctrines are not my own.

Edited January 11, 2009 by KennelMom

[Jiffer]

While this is the teaching that I grew up with and my DH staunchly believes it, I do not.

 

There are several things you have to take into consideration: the bible was written by man a LONG time ago... it was written in a time when animals were just "dumb beasts of burden" who worked for man. They were not a part of the family.

 

If you go with the the belief that God created Adam and Eve and all the animals, then wouldn't it make sense that if God granted Adam a soul, why not the countless creatures he created to keep Adam company? They were the original companions of Adam until God realized Adam needed one of his own kind to keep him company.

 

Religion is all about interpretation

[Guest ellieb]

We are "technically" Catholic. My daughter has attended parochial school since K. She in now a freshman.

 

Even though she attends a Catholic high school she takes all the teachings with a "grain of salt". I have taught her to question everything and come to her own belief. We are very spiritual, but there is no organized religion that I follow to the letter.

 

My most basic and abiding belief is that God is in all of us and every living thing on the planet. Therefore...animals are godly.

 

As for the Catholic schools...I still think they are a fabulous learning environment. I like the discipline, spirituality, uniforms, heavy parental involvement, etc.

[HJsM]

I've read the Bible through many times and don't remember anything saying specifically animals do not have souls.

 

I believe what your son may be hearing is dogma (no pun intended) which is my only problem with organized religion (and what leads to the HATE part of things).

 

Now you face the fun part which is to help him learn to THINK CRITICALLY about things he hears at school and to ALWAYS continue to ask you a lot of questions and then finally....go to the source..the Bible itself and THEN formulate opinions and thoughts.

 

It's hard to explain to kids the difference between dogma and what actually IS written and I salute you for remaining open to dialog with him.

 

P.S. Soapbox - "Or Who Cares What You Believe But Here it Is Anyway": animals DO have souls, they go to a good place when they die and I hope that I can be united with all my animals when I go.

[BootsyCollins]

I'm Catholic, even a practicing one. I think God loves all creatures great and small and accepts them all into heaven. I went to Catholic school and loved every minute of it and have absolutely no recollection of Sister Margaret Mary, Sister Mary Pat, Sister Patricia, Sister Elizabeth Ann, or any of the other nuns telling me that my dog wasn't going to go to heaven. Don't remember any of the priests saying it either.

 

Exactly what is the point of telling a child that animals (a) don't have souls; and ( aren't going to heaven? Is this really a conversation worth the expense of tuition? Shouldn't they be focusing on something a big more important and relevant to the child's spiritual life?

[Guest TBSFlame]

As I am not Christian, let alone Catholic, I don't believe in Heaven at all. I do not believe that souls simply dissipate after death, but continue on in different forms. I do believe that animals have souls and that their souls are on the same journey that every soul is on. I believe in re-incarnation and I think we have all lived lifetimes as animals and most of us will probably do so again. Each lifetime we live is to teach us new lessons, so we choose what form to come back as to best learn those lessons.

 

I pretty much believe this too. But, I am a non-denominational Christian. I believe the Bible is man-made...perhaps with some Divine influence...but definitely with a lot of human and political inflence...so there is a lot that isn't in it and a lot that's in it that probably isn't as important to God as we think it is. I also believe there is more than one path to God, regardless of the last form one's spirit had on earth.

 

As for the Catholics and whether or not animals have souls...well, it's usually best if I when it comes to Catholicism. Everyone is entitled to their own beliefs and who am I to say the Catholics are wrong. I can only say that many of their doctrines are not my own.

 

 

I believe that all religions of the world have it wrong. I don't know what right is yet, but when we die we will know the true truth. I do believe that anything that humankind has had a hand in is messed up. I also believe it we want to see our greyhounds again in heaven, we will. Simple as that.

 

 

 

 

[Forevermybabies]

The teacher and I have been exchanging emails. Apparently it was started by a student asking the question about do dogs go to heaven. She explained various viewpoints and told the kids that she's not God and doesn't really know the answer. She's very nice, and it is good to have a dialogue.

 

Gabe likes the school very much, as do I, though I'm not Catholic. I think it's really interesting to get theological information along with other instruction, and they are wonderful wonderful wonderful with the kids.

[BootsyCollins]

Well it sounds to me like it was a healthy conversation rather than a pronouncement from above, so that's good. Glad you like the school!

[Guest Snazzy_Chloe]

This is a good thing and time for you and Gabe to have a good soul searching chat - where you can ask him many questions on how he feels about certain things that will guide him in reaching his own decision. There is no "right" answer, or an answer that you can just tell him - that will make the question go away.

It is a good thing that he is coming to ask for your opinion - and a chance for a greyt growth experience for both of you to grow together.

What I or anyone else believes means little - it is what he believes that it is important. And that he has had enough external input of ideas to formulate a good belief that will grow and change shape as he ages/

 

[Guest greydogluvr]

Someone told me once that if there is something that was good and wonderful in your life and important to you , then it would be in heaven with you. I for one am counting on a great reunion with my goldie who we lost 5 years ago and eventually these hounds when they too leave us. To see them all run again full of youth and strength will be the most beautiful thing.

 

What a wonderful statement. I too am counting on being reunited with all people and animals that have been important and wonderful aspects of my life.

[racindog]

I am a Christian and just believe what the Bible says-not what any particular theology claims it says. Ecclesiastes 3:19-20 says" For what happens to the sons of men also happens to beasts; one thing befalls them: as one dies, so dies the other. Surely, they all have one breath; man has no advantage over beasts, for all is vanity. All go to one place: all are from the dust, and all return to dust." Revelations 5:13 also says they are in heaven praising God. I have found additional scriptures that support this. So that is what I think.

Edited January 12, 2009 by racindog

[Guest greycious_gal]

It's a good thing to quote the Bible in such things. After all, the Catholics and Christians have access to Bibles (give or take a few books). If we say we are spiritual or are looking for answers to spiritual things, then we have to go to the actual source of all things spiritual, in my mind. Second or third hand information without basis in the very source itself has a tendency to warp the very thing someone seeks. (Even an writing scholar could not write without asking questions of the source text.) Now, this will be a problem for those who do not see the Bible as the source, and for those who are in that place, this has little meaning. In that case, you ask of someone who does not share the same frame of reference for your heaven question, nor should they speak about the heaven referenced in the Bible. They should be clear they are referencing their own idea of heaven. Know the source.

 

I am assured there is an answer. I am assured the answer does not lie in my "take" on it, or my preferences toward a certain belief, or even someone else's "take" on the answer to the question. To be honest, this is God's heaven. When we want to know what He includes or excludes, we have to ask Him (using His Bible would be the appropriate source, since He has expressly said that it will not pass away or diminish, regardless of what people may do to it). His heaven, His rules, as defined by His Book.

 

Any person, priest, pastor, friend, or family member can say anything they want about these things, with or without the support of the Bible. Whatever Shakespeare and a few others say about "thinking making it so" doesn't change the reality. What He communicates about these things is all that matters. Same thing about those who say they are communicating spiritual things or living a spiritual life. The standard is what's in His Book when it comes to His heaven. Other heavens will be painted and offered, but I can't recommend anything else. It wouldn't have a good end.

 

Do animals go to heaven? Excellent question!

 

You've seen people show evidence that there are animals in heaven. Are they the ones we know and love from this earth? We don't know for sure. Would this one thing keep someone from choosing to enter heaven? It might, but it would be somewhat foolish.

 

If God is who He says He is--the Good Shepherd, the Good Father, the Loving Father, and more--and heaven is the intended perfection of existence, then (by faith...without seeing) I have to know that, if it took my dogs being there to make it heaven, then they would be there. If they are not there, then I may have the wrong perception of what heaven should be. That's less about God being the wise and loving Creator of all things, and more about me being in His place.

 

Yep. Theology comes out. Hard not to have that happen when we are talking about THEO, meaning God...and His heaven.

 

And now, back to our regularly scheduled programming...

 

Oh, and if they do go to God's heaven, then the next question that begs to be asked is "Will you both be in the same place?" His heaven. His rules. As defined in His Book.

[Guest CampWhippet]

This will set it all straight:

 

A MAN AND HIS DOG

 

A man and his dog were walking along a road. The man was enjoying the scenery, when it suddenly occurred to him that he was dead. He remembered dying, and that his faithful dog had been dead for many years. He wondered where the road was leading them. After a while, they came to a high, white stone wall along one side of the road. It looked like fine marble. As he reached the wall, he saw a magnificent gate in the arch, and the street that led to the gate made from pure gold. He and the dog walked toward the gate, and as he got closer, he saw a man at a desk to one side.

 

When he was close enough, he called out, "Excuse me, where are we?"

 

"This is heaven, sir," the man answered.

 

"Wow! Would you happen to have some water? We have traveled far," the man said.

 

"Of course, sir. Come right in, and I'll have some ice water brought right up."

 

The man gestured, and the gate began to open.

 

"Can my friend," gesturing toward his dog, "come in, too?" the traveler asked.

 

"I'm sorry, sir, but we don't accept pets."

 

The man thought a moment, remembering all the years this dog remained loyal to him and then turned back toward the road and continued the way he had been going. After another long walk he came to a plain dirt road, which led through a farm gate that looked as if it had never been closed. There was no fence. As he approached the gate, he saw a man inside, leaning against a tree and reading a book.

 

"Excuse me!" he called to the reader. "Do you have any water? We have traveled far."

 

"Yes, sure, there's a faucet over there." The man pointed to a place that couldn't be seen from outside the gate. "Come on in and help yourself."

 

"How about my friend here?" the traveler gestured to his dog.

 

"There should be a bowl by the faucet; he is welcome to share."

 

They went through the gate, and sure enough, there was an old-fashioned faucet with a bowl beside it. The traveler filled the bowl and took a long drink himself, then he gave some to the dog. When they were full, he and the dog walked back toward the man who was standing by the tree waiting for them.

 

"What do you call this place?" the traveler asked.

 

"This is heaven," was the answer.

 

"Well, that's confusing," the traveler said. "The man down the road said that was heaven, too."

 

"Oh, you mean the place with the gold street and pearly gates? Nope. That's hell."

 

"Doesn't it make you mad for them to use your name like that?"

 

"No. We're just happy that they screen out the folks who'd leave their best friends behind in exchange for material things."

______________________________________________________________________________________________________

 

"If there are no dogs in Heaven, then when I die I want to go where they went." Will Rogers, 1897-1935

Edited January 12, 2009 by CampWhippet

[brindlebaby]

I'm not a religious person. Spiritual, but not religious. I haven't raised my kids in a religion or church. (For better or worse.)

 

My younger son, however, now attends a private Catholic school (for academic reasons.) And one of the classes is to learn about Catholicism, obviously. Well, anyway, he's upset and confused because of the belief that animals do not have souls, and don't go to heaven. I told him that personally, I can't believe that God would make a creature who is perfect love, and not endow them with what we think of as a "soul." And if there are no dogs in heaven, I don't want to go.

 

So he thought, well, maybe animals go to a separate heaven and we can visit. I don't like that, either.

 

I have no idea what REALLY happens (who does), but I don't like this idea that people have an afterlife and animals just die.

 

Can someone explain to me the biblical basis for this Catholic belief that animals have no souls and don't go to heaven? (Assuming there's a heaven.) Where does it say this in the bible?

 

I am Catholic and I believe animals have souls and go to heaven.

 

Heaven is supposed to be, well heavenly! If there were no dogs/animals, how could that place be called Heaven??

 

I love "A Man and his Dog" posted in the post above... it sums up for me exactly what I think will happen to people who would abandon their dog/cat/bird/hamster...and so on and so on.

Edited January 12, 2009 by brindlebaby

[Guest EmilyAnne]

The argument that animals do not go to heaven is based on the theory that animals do not have souls. As in they are incapable of emotion. There are many people who sincerely believe that animals are incapable of emotion and that they operate on instinct alone. They are wrong. Animals have souls, created by God, and their souls go back to God in heaven when they pass on. I am a Christian BTW. I no longer get into debates with other Christians who strongly believe the opposite of what I do on this issue. It just never goes well.

[Guest ellieb]

"No. We're just happy that they screen out the folks who'd leave their best friends behind in exchange for material things."

______________________________________________________________________________________________________

 

"If there are no dogs in Heaven, then when I die I want to go where they went." Will Rogers, 1897-1935

 

 

Love it!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[Forevermybabies]

I love that quote. (Will Rogers was born in 1879, not 1897.)

[Guest hvacman250]

The argument that animals do not go to heaven is based on the theory that animals do not have souls. As in they are incapable of emotion. There are many people who sincerely believe that animals are incapable of emotion and that they operate on instinct alone. They are wrong. Animals have souls, created by God, and their souls go back to God in heaven when they pass on. I am a Christian BTW. I no longer get into debates with other Christians who strongly believe the opposite of what I do on this issue. It just never goes well.

So you must be a vegetarian, right? How could you eat something with a soul?

[BootsyCollins]

The argument that animals do not go to heaven is based on the theory that animals do not have souls. As in they are incapable of emotion. There are many people who sincerely believe that animals are incapable of emotion and that they operate on instinct alone. They are wrong. Animals have souls, created by God, and their souls go back to God in heaven when they pass on. I am a Christian BTW. I no longer get into debates with other Christians who strongly believe the opposite of what I do on this issue. It just never goes well.

So you must be a vegetarian, right? How could you eat something with a soul?

 

Easy. They're delicious.

[Guest hvacman250]

The argument that animals do not go to heaven is based on the theory that animals do not have souls. As in they are incapable of emotion. There are many people who sincerely believe that animals are incapable of emotion and that they operate on instinct alone. They are wrong. Animals have souls, created by God, and their souls go back to God in heaven when they pass on. I am a Christian BTW. I no longer get into debates with other Christians who strongly believe the opposite of what I do on this issue. It just never goes well.

So you must be a vegetarian, right? How could you eat something with a soul?

 

Easy. They're delicious.

I agree.

 

Not trying to start an argument, just adding another angle on this. If you believe a dog has a soul, then every animal has a soul. If every animal has a soul, then you should feel bad about not being a vegetarian, right? Eating something with a soul ?

 

My personal belief is God set us apart from animals by giving us His Spirit. Animals dont have to stand before judgement by God one day; humans do. God loves every one of his creations: every person, animal, flower, etc., but humans are in a different class.

 

 

All the dogs/heavens threads are *There are 3 currently going, and only God knows the answer.

Edited January 13, 2009 by hvacman250

[Guest Pipi5]

I believe that because God made dogs for us to enjoy, they are His creatures & when they die, they go back to Him. However, I believe also that a little part of them stay in our hearts for us to enjoy their life after they have left us. I don't believe God would have created such a wonderful creature if He had intended for them to not come back to Him when their journey was completed here on earth.

[SAVED2]

In most of the above post they say ( I believe that etc. etc. ) well its just that , its what you believe not what GOD created , and don't believe what some human says just because he believes it , only believe the inspired word of GOD which over thousands of years have never been proven wrong and that hundred of predictions have come to pass.