Putting Old, Sick Dogs Under Anaesthetic

[Guest Amber]

Re. Oscar and his infected lymph gland (lump in jaw).

 

The vet says she doesn't know what to do with him! The antibiotics he's on seemed to help at first, but not so much now, but she has given me more of the same antibiotics.

 

Other option is to put him under and see if they can find a root cause of infection in mouth. However, she couldn't give me a straight answer as to how risky this would be - he is 11, with early stage heart failure.

 

Really not sure what to do...I will ask to see my regular vet next time we go on Friday, as this one I have been seeing for the infection is new to me. She said no hesitation in investigating under anaesthetic if he was a 2 year old, but at the mo, we're doing a wait and see to see if antibiotics do anything...been on these ones a week now...maybe she should have given him different ones again?

 

I just don't want to risk him on the operating table when he still has a quality of life and his infection may clear up with the a-bs, but OTOH, it doesn't seem to be responding well to the a-bs and he is definitely feeling unwell.

 

Has anyone had an old, sick dog go through an operation/anaesthetic, does anyone know how much more riskly it is ?

 

 

[Guest EmilyAnne]

I had a pointer that had numerous problems in old age and only made it to 12 yrs old. At age 10, he had an obscenely large lump in his groin area. The vet kept wanting to leave it, and finally it just got too ridiculous, and I flat out insisted it be removed. It was over 4 lbs.

 

He had epilepsy and diabetes, and was older, and made it through the surgery ok, but the recovery was terribly difficult. I slept with him for the next few nights on his bed. He'd cry all night long. I cried with him, regretting that I had put him through the surgery.

 

Fast forward a couple weeks later, and it was unbelievable how much better he was compared to *before* the surgery. I was even able to take him off his arthritis meds, and for awhile he went back to bouncing and playing and running which he had not done in awhile, an I was SO glad I had done the surgery! In the future I would not be as hestitant to do the surgery, and I am glad I insisted my vet do it.

 

Sure the surgery can be hard on them, but not doing the surgery is sometimes even harder on them. I can't advise on the anesthesia risk so much, and Alfalfa was a pointer mix and he never had a problem with that. They checked his values and stuff before surgery, and they did say one of his values looked iffy for the surgery, but they proceeded anyways, being extra careful, and there were no problems with the anesthesia. When they gave him Valium instead of Acepromazine before the surgery, Alfalfa would recover quicker. Alfalfa had bad luck and kept having surgeries on almost a yearly basis.

Edited July 15, 2008 by EmilyAnne

[CaliforniaGreys]

When I had to have my 12 yr old put under because he needed teeth pulled, I was a wreck having him put under at his age. My vet assured me that the drug he uses has the least amt of risk, but let's face it, there's always a risk. Tanner was really hurting with these teeth so it had to be done for his comfort. He pulled through like a champ. Granted his recovery was a little slower I think because of his age but I didn't regret doing it. Prayers for your boy

[PatricksMom]

How has his blood work been? My vet likes to say old age in and of itself isn't a disease.

[Guest Amber]

He had his bloods checked the other week and they were all fine. He's had a fine needle aspirate on the lump and the results came back saying they couldn't find any cancer cells.

 

He's been on the abs for 10 days - the first ones didn't do anything at all; the new lot worked for a while, but now his temp is back up again to 103 and he doesn't seem well.

 

The purpose of the operation would be exploratory - they don't know what exactly they hope to find, or if they will find anything - just some reason for the infection that may be able to be surgically removed, I guess.

 

It's really hard knowing what to do, especially as I am due to go on holiday on 26 July and have a dogsitter coming to the house for a week! I'm really confused about what to do if he doesn't start to pick up on the antibiotics before then.

Edited July 15, 2008 by Amber

[PatricksMom]

I can see how that would be a really tough choice. That's good that his bloodwork is good, either way. I guess I'd take into account how happy vs. uncomfortable he seems.

 

You also might want a second opinion; I had a vet tell us we either needed surgery or euthanasia for my very elderly bunny (rabbits don't do well with surgery even if young and healthy). We really couldn't decide, I got an expert second opinion, who said she's fine. We did neither, that was 1.5 years ago, and she's still going strong.

[MP_the4pack]

Onyx was 11 when she had a laryngeal tieback last year. She did terrific. She has a low grade heart murmur. She was done by a highly recommended surgeon.

 

Pearl just came off a dental where she lost 11 teeth. She's 11 1/2, severe heart disease, hypertension and mild kidney disease. I was a nervous wreck. But we did lots of pre-op immediately before she went under. She was done by a dentist not a regular vet. (my regular vets won't touch Pearl with a 10 foot anesthesia hose).

She came thru with flying colors.

 

My recommendation is to go to a specialist at a hospital, not the regular GP.

 

 

If you're near NJ, I can give you some good recommendations.

 

 

 

 

PS. If you go to Everything Else Greyhound, you'll read about Genies recent surgery to remove 4 growths. She's 20!!!

 

She's a spunky one, she is!

 

 

Edited July 15, 2008 by MP_the4pack

[Guest LynnM]

Isofluorane, the most commonly used inhalant anesthetic for veterinary practices, is also the one with the lowest incidence of cardiovascular side effects. So.. that's a good thing.

 

From personal experience, if the dog's condition is being medically managed and the dog is carefully observed during the procedure, I'd say the benefit almost definately outweighs the risk. From super-personal experience, I can relate how Isaac had tumors removed from his mouth twice in 3 weeks about a year ago and he was diagnosed with congestive heart failure 6 months before that. If he hadn't had those surgeries, he'd have been long dead.

 

Lynn

[Greytlady94]

I would talk to the regular vet who has his medical history and should have a better grasp of his general health. I would also seek out a second opinion on the condition that is the reason for surgery.

 

My Molly had surgery twice after age 10 and did well with the anesthesia, but her surgery was for a specific reason, to remove tumors. They have all had dentals requiring anesthesia as a part of their health care all through their life. My Renie, age 10 has been under anesthesia 3 times in the last few months, but these were for testing not surgery.

 

Where I would be questioning is the lack of a diagnosis. I would want every effort to be made to find the cause before resorting to surgery. What I got from your post, it seems the vet doesn't know what the surgery is for, or if it is going to help at all.

 

Have tick titers been done? I would definitely want tick titers done. click here

[silverfish]

If there is a good reason, then I'd do it. You also have to remember that chronic infection can affect other organs, as in rotting teeth contributing to kidney failure - and this is most critical in the elderly and frail.

 

Jack will be thirteen next month. There are things which could do with some attention, and we are monitoring him. One is a tumour near his anus which is looking a little odd. He had some removed from the same spot about three years ago and the labs came back benign, so this is likely benign too .. except it's looking as if it might ulcerate. If that happens, we'll put him under and deal with it, plus get his teeth cleaned once more while he's out and get him thoroughly looked over too. He might be thirteen, but he's otherwise in good shape and he may live for years yet, with care and with luck.

 

If I were you, I might be thinking about a specialist opinion to get that infected glad properly diagnosed, but be warned that they too might want to do an exploration under GA.

[Guest Amber]

Thanks all.

 

Maybe I should ask for a referral to the Vet School. Oscar had really, really bad septic arthritis about 18 months ago (he was much sicker than he is now) and eventually we were referred to a specialist at the vet school.

 

I don't have that much faith in the vet I've been seeing - saying "I don't know what to do with him"!! I was like 'Well, take his temperature, for a start!" Grief.

 

My normal vet is on holiday until Monday, but if there is not a drastic improvement by next week, I may well ask her if we can see someone at the vet School...problem being, its 2.5 hours drive away, hopefully there may be time before I go away, although they do tend to want you to come back all the time.

 

At least the vet school deals directly with the pet insurance co., so you don't have to pay massive bills upfront.

 

In the past 10 days, I've spent £600 (that's like $1200?) on vet bills! For what - a few tests and antibiotics and no diagnosis.

 

Apart from that, I would trust the Vet School to do an exploratory op much sooner than I would my normal vet, so yes, think that's good advice, thanks.

Edited July 15, 2008 by Amber

[tbhounds]

A university/vet school would be a good idea as they would be properly equipped in case of an emergency. They have all the bells and whistles as far as anesthesia monitoring equipment, they also have specialists on hand--i.e. cardiologists. I would definitely, at the very minimum would have a consultation with them.

[Guest Amber]

Update!

 

Oscar's lump has almost gone and he seems much better in himself! So I'm hopeful that the a-bs are working and there will be no need for any surgeries for this infection.

 

Am really relieved that he seems to be feeling so much better - almost his old self!

[6greyhounds]

Glad Oscar is feeling better - Softee who will be 15 next month had surgery a few months ago for Squamous cell carcinoma and had a toe removed and she did greyt there are a couple of pic here of her in another post

[PatricksMom]

great news!