Incontinece Medication Research

[Guest MZH]

PS I'm very impressed with the short term use of the pseudoephedrin. Is this OTC or prescription?

 

Marcia

[feemandvm]

Both DES and Proin can have serious side effects although the significant ones are rare (at least if you dose the hounds at a lower level for PPA).

 

 

 

http://www.VeterinaryPartner.com/Content.plx?P=A&A=487

 

http://www.VeterinaryPartner.com/Content.plx?P=A&A=614

 

http://www.VeterinaryPartner.com/Content.plx?P=A&A=1724

 

 

[Guest MZH]

Good links; thank you Dr F.

 

Sparkle, our girl who died from the cerebral hemorrhage, was on no more than 12.5 mg once or twice twice a day. (I varied it depending on how she was doing.) That stuff just didn't agree with her; I guess she was one of the rare ones.

 

I'm glad there are other options for the next incontinent dog that comes along.

 

PS Our intersex puppy, now 8 months old, was on bethanichol for a couple to weeks this Fall to help her bladder empty better. It sorta helped but not enough to keep her it on it long term. She pees like a boy through a penis-like opening but is a girl, so that really messed up her urinary issues. She couldn't seem to pee completely so she peed often -- anytime, anywhere -- for 3 months before we figured out what is wrong -- OK, different -- about her!

 

Marcia

[JenniferS]

A few years ago Quiet Man was put on Proin for leaking and accidents. He was leaking a lot in his sleep and not even knowing he was doing it. He was never quite right on the proin, lethargic and not himself, although the accidents & leaking stopped. He then had an "episode" one night and I took him off it. By episode I mean in the past he has had a few times where he woke up to what can only be described as "after seizure" behavior. I've never seen him have a seizure before, but when he had these episodes he was very out of it and everyone I spoke with described it as how their dogs acted coming down from a seizure. Granted, this happened a few times before the Proin, but he had gone a really long time without one and as soon as I started the meds, it happened. I took him off it and it hasn't happened since.

Eventually the accidents and leaking stopped. He had tested negative for just about everything. The only things I can think of is I had started him on Merrick canned food, which I believe was too rich & salty for him, so I stopped it. And there were a lot of negative changes to my household at the time and I wonder if he was reacting to the stress?

I do know many people have had success with it, I am just sharing my personal experience. My vet had never heard of any side affects, so the decision to stop was purely mine.

[KF_in_Georgia]

Jacey had/has what my vet has called spay incontinence. She doesn't often leak, but she has trouble "finishing" when she pees; poor baby just stands there, knees bent, waiting for the last drops to come out.

 

At one point, she was leaking some, especially in her sleep. The vet checked her urine and found signs of infection, but the question then was whether it was bladder or urinary tract. She went on antibiotics for a time. The infection seemed to persist. A draw by needle of urine from her bladder confirmed that there was no bladder infection. The WBCs in her urine persisted, and the vet began to wonder if the infection was being triggered by urine retained after she peed. Meanwhile, the leaking in her sleep stopped, but the problem finishing up persisted.

 

We tried a low dose of PPA, but she started licking excessively. (I might not have noticed this--she licked when she was crated while I was at work--but she started pooping large quantities of white hair.) Jacey had previously been through a course of Clomicalm and Valium to deal with her separation anxiety. She was off those drugs at this point, but at the first sign of abnormal behavior on the PPA, I took her off it. (I think she took it for about four days.) We then tried DES. She was on that for a couple of weeks, but there was no change in her behavior. Now, nearly three years later, she still stays crouched for a while almost every time she pees. No incontinence, though.

 

Oh, at one point I tried her on cranberry pills for several months. No change.

 

I adopted Jacey nearly three years ago, and she will be 6 in May.

[packmom]

Angel has has occasional bouts of incontinance her whole life with me. Sine it was so sporadic I chose not to do anything. Now that she's older and has other illnesses it started to happen every night. She'd be soaked every morning. Since she started PPA it only happens maybe once a week and is so small I don't always see it. She takes Norvasc and Enalpril for high blood pressure also. She will turn 13 in 2 months.

[phall]

My senior boy (12 years old - will be 13 in May) has been on PPA/Proin for a number of years now (at least six) and has not had any side effects/bad reactions at all. It's really helped him a lot with his incontinence over the years. I have him checked twice a year by our vet to make sure.

 

He is on some other meds (as I noted when I voted above) - soloxine (thyroid), Previcox, and Tramadol (Previcox and Tramadol are for his arthritis).

 

Pat

[galgomum]

Paquita has spay incontinence since a few weeks.

Since I had lived a nightmare with Isa being on meds for that, they suggested PPA, much better, and she wouldn't be panting like crazy and a heartbeat that went insane.

This would be harmless compared to the other stuff, which I totally forgot the name of, but recognize when I hear it.

 

Anyway, I was relieved to have gotten this, but Paquita isn't eating great suddenly and she seems to be tired, panting more than normal during walks.

already brought it back from 60mg to 40 mg a day, which seems a lot still if I read dr Feeman.

She is a galgo/bordercollie mix and seems to have the habit to react to medication as a galgo would.

I will bring the dosage down even further, but am afraid she still leaks at times.

[GreyhoundNan]

It amazes me that they removed OTC meds for humans containing this ingredient BECAUSE IT CAUSED STROKES but still prescribe it for animals.

 

You know, I asked my vet that very same question and he told me that you have to look at a dog's digestive system (especially one that metabolizes things as fast as a greyhound does) as very different than a human's. Things pass through faster and they are just built to handle more than humans are because dogs are scavengers in the wild.

 

He also pointed out that humans can and will take more than they are supposed to of an alleged weight loss pill (which PPA was marketed as...Phen-Fen or something?) and dogs won't. Hunky has been on 100mg per day (1 50mg chewable 2x/day) for a long time now and has none of the crazy effects I saw during the first few days as his body was adjusting to it. He doesn't take any other meds except fish oil supplements, and I'm switching him back to raw because I've read that grains can irritate the urinary tract in some cases.

 

I trust my vets...they love Hunky as much as I do and never give me anything to give him that they haven't researched for both dogs in general and greyhounds specifically. YMMV with Proin though...some dogs can't handle it, some can.

[Guest lastlaff]

I am a real newbie here, but I read from this forum all of the time and thought perhaps I would actually try and contribute to see if this helps anyone.

 

So, I went to OSU (Super vets BTW, can't ask for better!) with my Roo - she leaks, like a sieve and is one walking side effect so I like to really know about any treatments she gets. We discussed the options for incontinence treatment..including the collagen injections:

 

Under general anesthesia, they inject collagen which then plumps the tissue surrounding the weakened bladder "sphincter". The swelling helps seal the bladder and thus the muscles can do the job maintaining continence even while compromised. They have an effectiveness of about 70%. But with no life threatening side effects(the stuff doesn't absorb like a drug into the bloodstream, it just sits there). Yes, the "sphincter" can over tighten and then they fix that, but it sounds like these guys do this enough now that the likely-hood is very slim.

 

Now, what they fail to do is put the owner on general anesthesia before giving you the price estimate. And note, it's not the procedure that costs, its the medical grade Collagen (meaning I don't think the vets are cashing in..the stuffs just pricey). I suspect the price is high as it's the same "filler" used for lips and so many woman will pay extremely high prices for it thus rendering those who need it helpless..doncha love vanity?..anyway, off my rant..$1400-$1800 generic estimate. Oh and it can over time wear off a year. In a year or less, you may need a touch up, but I failed to ask if the touch up would use less collagen, thus less cost..couldn't get jaw up off of floor.

 

I am seriously considering having it done as I personally don't like treating couch threatening conditions with potentially life threatening drugs, but wow, what a price! Anyway, it is a real option! Sorry this was so long..I am off now to get a lottery ticket or two...

[Rickiesmom]

My girl is on something called Propalin. It's a liquid. Original dosing was 6cc twice per day, we have gotten it down to 2cc twice per day and I will try 1.5 now that we are back from Sandy Paws.

 

Does anyone know, is this the same, in terms of active ingredients, as Proin?

[duncan41]

It is my understanding that Propalin, Proin and PPA are the same. Propalin is a liquid, Proin is a chewable tablet and PPA is a tablet

[Guest Judynyc]

This is my first post to this board so please forgive me for not introducing myself first.

I adopted my first GH last October and have been reading here since then.

 

I've had years of experience with this issue so maybe I've got some help. The way I understand it, there are 2 kinds of it....one is hormonal, due to aging and the other is spay incontinence, which is what my dog experienced from a botched spay!! It is hard to figure out which one your dog has though. Giving DES, if it is successful, does mean that it is hormonal.

 

I gave my dog PPA for about 13 yrs. As she got older, the leaking got worse and I was giving her more and more PPA. She was a 70 lb GSD/hound mix. I had her BP taken when she was on very high doses and it was normal, much to the vet's surprise. But it had gotten to the point where the PPA was no longer effective.

 

If the collagen injections work, how long does it last? or does it have to be done every couple of years?

I know that there is a vet at U of Penn vet school, who is a urologist and working on surgeries to correct this.

 

I hope that my experiences helps.

[Guest lastlaff]

We are planning to have the injections done April 14th up at OSU. Oh, I made a mistake, I think the cost is potentially up to 2400.00..I forgot they said she may need 2 vials of it, depends on the dog. I will post and let people know how she responds. It's a shame the cost I know and so we have had to save for quite some time, but honestly our costs in laundry detergent, and waterproof blanket purchases and everything else I am spending a lot either way. She leaks badly, so I am asking a lot of this stuff, it should be a good test.

 

It is supposed to last on average 17 months and then a touch up may be needed. Is studies it has lasted as long as 5 years without touch-ups in some, less than a year in others. But, if I understand it, it should cost less and be easier to do for touch ups. Some places use teflon, cheaper, but does not last as long. Hee Hee... just what I need, a grey hound with a bullet proof butt..