Standing Dentals?

[tydyelady]

With the tragic horror stories about anesthesia, I want to limit any avoidable anesthesia for Opie. So a few weeks ago I read on my local adoption site about anesthesia free dentals being offered at a dog day care center here in Seattle. A dentist and technician were scheduling appts. for the day (today) for pups to get their teeth cleaned. I scheduled Opie, and he had the procedure done today - included scaling and polishing. This was only for dogs that needed cleaning. If there were any serious tooth or gum issues, or extractions needed, they would not do the procedure and would refer back to your vet. I must say, I am very pleased with the outcome. Despite getting a turkey neck chunk or chicken leg every day, his teeth were still dingy yellow. Now they are pearly white. Opie is not a shy dog, and went willingly with the technician. He doesn't mind being handled, so he was a good patient. Although we do have to go back for a follow up in a month for the backs of his front teeth. (only $24 for this follow up.) After all, there is only so much tooth cleaning a boy can stand in one day!

So was wondering if anyone else has had this done?? Hopefully with regular brushing, and repeat procedure every year we can avoid the "going under" dental.

Thoughts or experience with this??

[Guest MomofSweetPotatoes]

So they just basically clean the visible tooth? what about stuff above the gumline?

[tydyelady]

They scale at the gumline and then polish, from what I understand. This is not offered everywhere, as from what I hear it takes some skill to do this to an awake dog.

[ahicks51]

Some wisdom imparted by Dr. Feeman: two links he posted that should be read when considering this option.

 

http://www.avdc.org/Dental_Scaling_Without...0statement'

 

http://www.bayparkpetclinic.com/article.ph...re+for+Your+Pet

 

 

[Guest guinness_the_greyt]

I did this with Guinness in Solvang at the Greyhound gathering... His teeth came out really really nice. However that being said... Guinn has good teeth to begin with. I'm unsure if its because I got him so young or if he just has good teeth. Either way I also knew he would allow the guy to clean his teeth. : As a matter of fact Guinn was the first dog who wanted to still stay laying in his lap when he was done! Thats my boy! As long as he can lay down he's good!

 

My other hounds had regular dentals at the vets office. Their teeth are in a worse condition and they will not allow someone to scale and polish their teeth.

[Guest MZH]

I brush Rita's teeth almost every day. She still gets plaque very quickly. She also has a pronounced overbite and an odd bite so that may not be helping. She does enjoy chewing bully sticks and that helps a bit.

 

People with dry mouths often have bad dental problems. Rita doesn't drink much water so all these things may be contributing to her incessant plaque buildup.

 

I knew a dog who never had a dental, was not fed raw, nor did his owner brush his teeth. When he died at 12+ his teeth were still pearly white. Good genes must have a lot to do with good teeth.

 

PS Edited to add she'd never tolerate a standing dental. Even if she would I doubt that they'd be able to reach some of her back teeth. I can barely find them when I brush.

Edited May 29, 2008 by MZH

[RobinM]

As per some literature from Dr. Bill Feeman:

 

"Opting for anesthetic-free dental care is not an appropriate solution to the problem. While anesthetic-free dentals may result in removal of superficial tartar and plaque, the effect is purely cosmetic and does not address the serious medical concerns that occur under the gum line. It is also virtually impossible to thoroughly clean the inner surface of the teeth, so money spent on anesthetic-free dentistry is money wasted."

 

It's a nice thought, but is not going to treat the issues in the mouth correctly,

 

[patricia]

I spoke to Dr. Beth about this as Angel LaceyLaine was aging and I had the fear of the whole anesthesia idea. She told me that it is pretty much cosmetic and she actually showed me pictures of what the dentist does and there is no way a complete cleaning could be done without anesthesia. She had her traditional dental and did very well.

[Guest myjazzy]

I've always wondered if dentals could be done under mild sedation instead of full anesthesia.

[RobinM]

I've always wondered if dentals could be done under mild sedation instead of full anesthesia.

 

See above posts!

[Guest MomoftheFuzzy]

As per some literature from Dr. Bill Feeman:

 

"Opting for anesthetic-free dental care is not an appropriate solution to the problem. While anesthetic-free dentals may result in removal of superficial tartar and plaque, the effect is purely cosmetic and does not address the serious medical concerns that occur under the gum line. It is also virtually impossible to thoroughly clean the inner surface of the teeth, so money spent on anesthetic-free dentistry is money wasted."

 

It's a nice thought, but is not going to treat the issues in the mouth correctly,

 

Interesting stuff I did not know.

 

Robin, can you recommend a good NY-area vet for dentals with greys? I'm thinking of trying someone who comes with good recs rather than our current vet for Speck's next dental.

 

[Guest greytpets]

Jester has a hyper-senstivity to plaque meaning he needs regular dentals every 3 months or so. but he also has a heart condition which so he doesnt do well with that much anaesthesia.

Hes a very good patient (as he used to live at the hospital) so we've been doing him with just a sedation and my vet does a great job of it, complete just as normal.

 

Its also a hell of a lot cheaper only about $36 compared to $400 (as he needs complete monitoring by a specialised anaesthesist and tons of equip)

 

my problem child

 

edited to add more: so it is actually a possibilty but youve got to have a willing vet and a very good dog. Jesters only the second dog my vet ever been able to do without anaesthesia.

 

(he also doesnt stand-up during the dental)

Edited May 31, 2008 by greytpets

[PatricksMom]

I've only done dentals w/anesthesia, but I always wondered why people can get awake dentals? Is the procedure actually different for dogs, or is it just that they won't cooperate for what we sit through?

 

 

More on topic, in my opinion Dr. Feeman is well worth listening to on any medical issue involving greyhounds.

 

eta: fix a typo

Edited May 31, 2008 by PatricksMom

[RobinM]

As per some literature from Dr. Bill Feeman:

 

"Opting for anesthetic-free dental care is not an appropriate solution to the problem. While anesthetic-free dentals may result in removal of superficial tartar and plaque, the effect is purely cosmetic and does not address the serious medical concerns that occur under the gum line. It is also virtually impossible to thoroughly clean the inner surface of the teeth, so money spent on anesthetic-free dentistry is money wasted."

 

It's a nice thought, but is not going to treat the issues in the mouth correctly,

 

Interesting stuff I did not know.

 

Robin, can you recommend a good NY-area vet for dentals with greys? I'm thinking of trying someone who comes with good recs rather than our current vet for Speck's next dental.

 

Absolutely..

 

A&A in Franklin Square. Exit 15 off the SS. Wasy for you to get to from the city.

 

Either Dr. Friedman, Longo or (forgot his name, a greek name) but any of them are 110% mor than qualified to do the dentals with full anesethia.

They do all the vetting for both LI groups and "get it".

 

As per some literature from Dr. Bill Feeman:

 

"Opting for anesthetic-free dental care is not an appropriate solution to the problem. While anesthetic-free dentals may result in removal of superficial tartar and plaque, the effect is purely cosmetic and does not address the serious medical concerns that occur under the gum line. It is also virtually impossible to thoroughly clean the inner surface of the teeth, so money spent on anesthetic-free dentistry is money wasted."

 

It's a nice thought, but is not going to treat the issues in the mouth correctly,

 

Interesting stuff I did not know.

 

Robin, can you recommend a good NY-area vet for dentals with greys? I'm thinking of trying someone who comes with good recs rather than our current vet for Speck's next dental.

 

Absolutely..

 

A&A in Franklin Square. Exit 15 off the SS. Wasy for you to get to from the city.

 

Either Dr. Friedman, Longo or (forgot his name, a greek name) but any of them are 110% mor than qualified to do the dentals with full anesethia.

They do all the vetting for both LI groups and "get it".

[Guest BlackandBrindle]

I've only done dentals w/anesthesia, but I always wondered why people can get awake dentals? Is the procedure actually different for dogs, or is it just that they won't cooperate for what we sit through?

 

 

More on topic, in my opinion Dr. Feeman is well worth listening to on any medical issue involving greyhounds.

 

eta: fix a typo

 

 

I think the difference is you know why the dentist is going after you, and if it hurts, it's logical to you. The dog just sees someone coming at them, usually in a vulnerable position, and doesn't really understand the 'why' of it.

 

I also think the actual dental is more involved than what we go through as far as the gums are concerned, thus more painful.

 

This is just my uneducated guess though Neither of my dogs have required dentals while under my care. They are raw fed.

[feemandvm]

I have never met a person that has had severe calculus and tartar on their teeth the way most dogs do when they are in for cleanings. The tartar you can see grossly with the naked eye is not the "worst" of it... although it contributes to dental disease it is the subgingival (under the gumline) tartar that really results in gingivitis, bone loss and periodontal disease. The tools used to clean under the gumline are very sharp so they can clean away the tartar and calculus but can be irritating. There is honestly no way to clean well and safely underneath hte gumline of an awake dog. So a dog that undergoes a "standing dental" will have a pearly white smile, meanwhile the tartar and calculus is left under the gumline to progress the periodontal disease and the bacteria causing it can continue to invade into the body as it is left untouched. The owner is lulled into a false sense of security b/c the teeth "look great". : (

 

This is one of those procedures that "sounds great" in theory but fails in practice. : ( There aren't any dental speicalists that recommend the procedure either which would raise red flags for me!

 

 

[Guest gpagreys]

 

 

Both feet first here....I have done my own pups dentals for years. granted they are given raw wings, necks and occasional knuckle bone to chew on so my intervention with them is minimal. Also they have fine healthy gums. I have also scaled and polished a few foster pups right off the track. Gross scale first, peridex application daily for a week or two, juicy wing and chicken backs ( a couple every other day) will get most of the remainder and finish up with a final fine scale and polish.

 

This does include the inside of the mouth if needed but I personally have found that raw meaty bones do wonders for those guys who do not have periodontal disease.

 

Griff, Finn, Jr and toofless ig Bini

[Guest KennelMom]

Dentals are one of those things I leave to the person with DVM after their name - for reasons elaborated on by Dr. Feeman.

[celbee]

My babies are getting theirs done this morning under general anesthesia.

I, too, hate the idea of general anesthesia (as I know some of what happens at the cellular level). A couple of weeks ago, I asked our vet whether or not it would be worth it for me to learn to do some of the scaling myself to mimimize these "anesthesia events". The cost is an issue, but the main issue for me is the repeat anesthesia. We have dental tools about the house as Mark uses them for fossils and minerals. The vet said mostly what has been said above-- that even I could keep the plaque/tartar off of the visible teeth, that I still would not be able to address the back teeth and things at the gumline.

 

Nothing really new to add, but confirming that many concur on this point.

 

Carol

(who will be trying REALLY HARD to do the at least every other day brushing and other preventive care)

Edited June 2, 2008 by celbee

[tydyelady]

Well, a bunch of interesting replies, and some concrete info from vets. To be clear on this, I did not have this procedure INSTEAD of a regular dental. Opie's vet felt his teeth were OK, and did not need a dental at this time. I do give him necks and wings, and his teeth have improved since I got him. His teeth were just yellow and I felt this was more like a cleaning, to perhaps keep his teeth from getting bad. Just as you brush your dog's teeth, this was another tool for prevention. If my vet felt he needed a regular dental, then that's what I would have done.

[GeorgeofNE]

My vet gives antibiotics started several days before a dental, and continuing for a course of 10 days. From what I understand, you can actually cause infections poking around with dental tools, and I imagine you're far more likely to poke into the gums if the dog is awake and moving.

 

Most vets are pretty well educated and understand that greyhounds have special needs when it comes to anesthesia--at least in my area they are. Even Dr. Stacks more recent articles say that the risks of anesthesia have vastly decreased with better medications and more education.