Guest xraychick Posted February 18, 2008 Share Posted February 18, 2008 I got my greys teeth cleaned today. The vet took blood. Said BUN was fine, but creatinine was 2.1 and they put him on a perscription purina NF kidney function food (dry). And in a month get his blood re-checked. I've been trying to do research about all this but am having a hard time understanding. I know greys have kidney problems, and their creatinines run higher etc etc. The vet told us we were feeding him food too high in protein. Anyone had any experiences like this? Is this food good for his kidneys? Help! I'm worried! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Burpdog Posted February 18, 2008 Share Posted February 18, 2008 (edited) If his BUN is ok, there is nothing wrong with his kidneys and he does NOT need to be on a prescription food. If you email me I'll send you articles on kidneys Burpdog@msn.com edited to add: I've had them go up to 2.3 or more and they are fine! Edited February 18, 2008 by Burpdog Quote Diane & The Senior Gang Burpdog Biscuits Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Batmom Posted February 18, 2008 Share Posted February 18, 2008 Depending on your lab ... sounds like your vet may not understand greyhounds. See here: http://www.animalmedicalcentreofmedina.com...y%20Failure.pdf Greyhounds can run creatinines a bit higher than normal for other dogs. My girl does. Has for years. Eats lots of protein currently (her diet is 95% beef/fish), and that hasn't changed her values at all. Quote Star aka Starz Ovation (Ronco x Oneco Maggie*, litter #48538), Coco aka Low Key (Kiowa Mon Manny x Party Hardy, litter # 59881), and mom in IllinoisWe miss Reko Batman (Trouper Zeke x Marque Louisiana), 11/15/95-6/29/06, Rocco the thistledown whippet, 04/29/93-10/14/08, Reko Zema (Mo Kick x Reko Princess), 8/16/98-4/18/10, the most beautiful girl in the whole USA, my good egg Joseph aka Won by a Nose (Oneco Cufflink x Buy Back), 09/22/2003-03/01/2013, and our gentle sweet Gidget (Digitizer, Dodgem by Design x Sobe Mulberry), 1/29/2006-11/22/2014, gone much too soon. Never forgetting CJC's Buckshot, 1/2/07-10/25/10. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Greys4Us Posted February 19, 2008 Share Posted February 19, 2008 Burpdog is right. One of my females (8 years old) runs a 2.1 creatinine level which is normal for her. I understand your concern. I would also not change food. There are a lot of vets who know greyhounds but still a lot who don't. Do the research first. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest WarmheartedPups Posted February 19, 2008 Share Posted February 19, 2008 My dog ...who is sick had a high creatinine...but everything else "kidney wise' checked out and no mention of different food. I think you need more than a high creatinine to have kidney issues. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maximum Posted February 19, 2008 Share Posted February 19, 2008 Greyhounds don't have kidney problems - they tend to have higher creatinine levels (their is a reason cannot recall right now - check Dr. Stack's website, www.greythealth.com). 2.1 is a *bit* high but not bad for a greyhound. As long as BUN is fine, their really isn't anything to worry about, can't imagine it requires perscription food. I'd get it checked annually but don't worry, it's okay... Quote My boys, together again... A hui hou kakou, my loves Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest spider9174 Posted February 19, 2008 Share Posted February 19, 2008 (edited) oops double post. Edited February 19, 2008 by spider9174 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest spider9174 Posted February 19, 2008 Share Posted February 19, 2008 (edited) How long have you had your boy? Yes. My grey's kidney function always fluctuates around 1.8 - 2.1. In fact, I just had blood drawn and his creatinine was 2.1. His BUN was 21. He's been as high as 30. I have his blood drawn every 6 months to watch this and it is ALWAYS around these values...even when he was dehydrated at the vet and getting iv fluids. Dehydration would make the values go up. The reference values are average creatinine and BUN. The papers report that there are dogs outside the reference values with normal kidney function. A couple of things you can ask to do a Urine test and ask for an ERD test. It's a highly sensitive test for microalbumin in urine--regular urine tests are not sensitive for it. There are also recommendations to have the urine tested on a refractometer for specific gravity. I have an issue with my boy because he drinks a lot...I mean a lot, and this causes his sg to be low. However he's never tested positive for protein and his BUN/Creatinine has never gone up. (He's not cushings or addisions, tested for those too.) What kind of phoshorous content was the food you were on? What was the protein content? There is evidence that lowering phosphorous content is more benefitial than lowering protein. The k/d diets do have a low phosphorous content. I actually changed foods to a lower phosphorous, but I did not go to k/d, not necessary. Try some supplements like fish oil and vitamin E. They are both supposed to help lower hypertention and help kidney function. OH, I also found an article that says with normal kidney function a high protein diet won't make bun/creatinine go up. you could very well change the diet and the values won't budge. Look up some of the papers by William Freeman, DVM at OSU. He's done a lot of research in this area. Print them out, give them to your vet. If you need them, pm me I will forward. pm him, I think he's a gt'r. If his BUN is ok, there is nothing wrong with his kidneys and he does NOT need to be on a prescription food. If you email me I'll send you articles on kidneys Burpdog@msn.com edited to add: I've had them go up to 2.3 or more and they are fine! GEEZ...and I thought I was the only one! Edited February 19, 2008 by spider9174 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest greyhound_mommy Posted February 19, 2008 Share Posted February 19, 2008 We just went through this. Halle's was high and scared me to death. It was "normal" for her. I will find the paper with her levels to let you know but please check around before putting your pup on medicine. I am a believer in trusting your vet if you know them but I learned with Halle and on this board that sometimes they aren't right or may not always know best when it comes to their levels. Good luck. I will let you know her levels. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trudy Posted February 19, 2008 Share Posted February 19, 2008 If nothing else is off and his level is only a little high, I'd not be switching yet and asking my vet why he wants to switch when there are no other indications of kidney issues. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kudzu Posted February 19, 2008 Share Posted February 19, 2008 I got my greys teeth cleaned today. The vet took blood. Said BUN was fine, but creatinine was 2.1 and they put him on a perscription purina NF kidney function food (dry). And in a month get his blood re-checked. I've been trying to do research about all this but am having a hard time understanding. I know greys have kidney problems, and their creatinines run higher etc etc. The vet told us we were feeding him food too high in protein. Anyone had any experiences like this? Is this food good for his kidneys? Help! I'm worried! Since creatinine is a muscle metabolite it can be higher in those with more muscle mass. I think that is why Greyhounds may tend towards higher serum creatinine levels. Elevations in creatinine, however, can be a very good indicator of decreased kidney function. The key would be to know your dogs normal range & watch for elevations from that. Also, other tests could help narrow down any possible problem. A low USG, urine specific gravity, can also be a clue to kidney problems. Did your vet do a urinalysis? BTW, BUN elevations are less specific to renal functions. Dogs can show elevations in creatinine levels before BUN levels. My understanding is that protein does not damage kidneys but excess phosphorus can. If this were the beginning of renal problems but serum BUN levels are normal (for this dog) then you may want to reduce phosphorus but not so much protein. Am no sure why your vet thinks the protein in your dog's current food is too high. Without elevated BUN levels that would seem unlikely. However, it may have too high a phosphorus level for a dog with renal insufficiency. I think you need more info from your vet before you can decide this is a kidney problem. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tbhounds Posted February 19, 2008 Share Posted February 19, 2008 I agree with the others--I wouldn't be too concerned. Your vet should have checked the urine first before scaring you. Easiest thing to do is to check the first morning urine sample to check the specific gravity (to check the urine concentration). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest rubysdad Posted February 19, 2008 Share Posted February 19, 2008 If his BUN is ok, there is nothing wrong with his kidneys and he does NOT need to be on a prescription food. If you email me I'll send you articles on kidneys Burpdog@msn.com edited to add: I've had them go up to 2.3 or more and they are fine! BURPDOG I would like more info on kidney disease, but the forum will not permit me to email you for the articles. Pls. show those websites here. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GeorgeofNE Posted February 19, 2008 Share Posted February 19, 2008 You need to take urine--if his specific gravity is OK and the urine is "clean," the high creatine (that's actually even high for a greyhound) can be overlooked. My George's creatine is 2.0. 1.9 is considered the upper level of "normal" for a Greyhound. His BUN is good, his urine is perfect, he has no symptoms. Tests have been re-run FOUR times, and he has high creatine. I sent his most recent blood and urine tests to Dr. Couto, because my vet wants to retest AGAIN and Dr. C. said given the facts and the results, he would consider 2.0 normal FOR GEORGE. And he says he regularly sees values like that in perfectly healthy dogs--but you have to have otherwise normal results to safely ignore an elevated creatine. Of course VPI won't insure him... Quote Susan, Hamish, Mister Bigglesworth and Nikita Stanislav. Missing Ming, George, and Buck Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Sassy Posted February 19, 2008 Share Posted February 19, 2008 RudysDad and XrayChick and all other interested folks: Thes maynot be the articles BurbDog had in mind, but the is terrific information on this website. Under the 1st FAQ, which is creatine specific, there are links to some articles on kidney disease (or the lack there of) in greyhounds. http://www.vet.ohio-state.edu/2376.htm Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest spider9174 Posted February 19, 2008 Share Posted February 19, 2008 http://www.arizonaadoptagreyhound.org/blood_tests.html http://dogaware.com/kidney.html There is a pdf that you can access via google. search bun creatine freeman greyhound and you should be directed to a pdf called 'Greyhound Medial Idiosyncracies.' if you can't get that pdf (spider9174@hotmai.com) email or pm me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Burpdog Posted February 19, 2008 Share Posted February 19, 2008 Also, bad teeth (or needing a dental) will increase both the creatine and BUN. I've emailed you all the papers. I would not be using a kidney diet food! Quote Diane & The Senior Gang Burpdog Biscuits Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
greyhoundgang Posted February 19, 2008 Share Posted February 19, 2008 Please give your vet a copy of Dr. Stack the Deck for Greyt Health. It's a collection of all Dr. Stack's articles. You can also read these at Greyt Health. You can also read about Kidney issues and Understanding Blood Work values in Greyhounds at Greyhound Gang - Learn - Medical. Your hound absolutely does not need to be on prescription food. Your hound is not having kidney issues. That BUN is normal for a greyhound. Quote Claudia & Greyhound Gang100% Helps Hounds GIG Bound! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
retiredracers Posted February 19, 2008 Share Posted February 19, 2008 (edited) What Burpdog said! Greys have higher creatinine values due to their increased muscles... I think that's the reason, I know there's a reason. If the BUN is normal and the urine specific gravity is good, too, I think he's okay. If they haven't looked at his urine sp. gravity, ask them to check it. You just have to give them a small urine sample... well, he does, not you. Ooops, I hadn't read the other responses and I now see that everything I said, others have already told you. Edited February 19, 2008 by retiredracers Quote Elphie, Kulee, Amanda, Harmony, Alex (hound mix), Phantom, Norbet, Willis (dsh), Autumn (Siamese) & Max (OSH) & mama rat, LaLa & baby Poppy! My bridge kids: Crooke & Mouse (always in my heart), Flake, Buzz, Snake, Prince (GSD), Justin & Gentry (Siamese), Belle (Aussie/Dalmatian mix), Rupert (amstaff) and Fred, Sirius, Severus, Albus, George, Hagrid, Hermione, Minerva, Marilyn, Wren, Molly, Luna, Tonks, Fleur, Ginny, Neville, Bill, Percy, Rose & Charlie (rats) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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