Incontinence Meds...what Are The Options?

[gracegirl]

It's time to put Grace on incontinence meds. It's been a rough start to the year! Talk to me about incontinence meds and the options I have. I've seen references to all natural and herbal supplements as well as different meds that can be used. DES (estrogen), Proin, sinus tablets, Resources Canine Incontinence Support, etc. I don't know where to start. I've taken urine samples in before and everything has come back okay, with the exception of an elevated bilirubin level of 2+ . I'll take another sample in to see if the bilirubin is the same. In the last few weeks she's had maybe 5-6 accidents, all when she's been napping. Some have been small, the size of my hand....while one or two have been much larger. The spots are always clear and odor-free. Always while I'm home, always on the bedding, never while standing up.

 

Tell me my options, what would you do?

 

(I'd tend to go more the route of staring something slow....and increasing the dosage if the problems continues. ie. if we go with Proin, start with one tablet 3x/week, and increase up to the regular dosage of 2x/day if needed)

[grey14me]

honestly, if you have a vet who will listen to you, I would try her on a run of antibiotics first...just in case it's a low grade uti. I did that once with my angel, Bailey and she didn't have another problem...and the vet said, wow, you really know your dog, don't you I did try Proin first and she had a really scary reaction...I'd given her one pill with her meal. a little while later, driven her to the park for a walk and when she got out of the car she just stood there and seemed really wobbly and shaky and tail tucked, then she threw up. I didn't try another proin, but I did try the anitbios after that and it worked.

[gracegirl]

honestly, if you have a vet who will listen to you, I would try her on a run of antibiotics first...just in case it's a low grade uti. I did that once with my angel, Bailey and she didn't have another problem...and the vet said, wow, you really know your dog, don't you I did try Proin first and she had a really scary reaction...I'd given her one pill with her meal. a little while later, driven her to the park for a walk and when she got out of the car she just stood there and seemed really wobbly and shaky and tail tucked, then she threw up. I didn't try another proin, but I did try the anitbios after that and it worked.

 

Huh, interesting. Thanks for the reply, I appreciate it. So when Bailey was having accidents with the low grade UTI was she having them on her bedding and while sleeping? The only reason I'm NOT thinking UTI is because it's while sleeping....but if others have seen UTI related accidents while sleeping then maybe it's not a tell-tale sign.

[Guest KRKWMU]

We had the same issues with our Gracey. She was peeing in her sleep without knowing that she was doing it. It was just once, then again, then it became a more regular thing. We talked to our vet and decided the DES medication was the right way to go for us. She started the med.s once every few days, but now we've tapered it so she only gets one pill every 7 days. We haven't seen any side effects...except maybe that she's a little more playful! Good luck, whatever you decide.

[grey14me]

honestly, if you have a vet who will listen to you, I would try her on a run of antibiotics first...just in case it's a low grade uti. I did that once with my angel, Bailey and she didn't have another problem...and the vet said, wow, you really know your dog, don't you I did try Proin first and she had a really scary reaction...I'd given her one pill with her meal. a little while later, driven her to the park for a walk and when she got out of the car she just stood there and seemed really wobbly and shaky and tail tucked, then she threw up. I didn't try another proin, but I did try the anitbios after that and it worked.

 

Huh, interesting. Thanks for the reply, I appreciate it. So when Bailey was having accidents with the low grade UTI was she having them on her bedding and while sleeping? The only reason I'm NOT thinking UTI is because it's while sleeping....but if others have seen UTI related accidents while sleeping then maybe it's not a tell-tale sign.

 

yep, sorry I wasn't more clear. it was only while sleeping. it was like she didn't even realize she'd done it because I'd see her get up and look and sniff at her hind end like 'what the heck?!' I just figured it can't hurt to try the antibios first because of the issues with the incontinence meds.

[Batmom]

I would try the antibiotics first, too.

 

Also keep track for a bit of how much water is drunk when, when pup goes out to pee, when spots occur.

 

Zema's story:

Zema has had an intermittent problem with having to go out a lot and/or leaking for a few hours in the late afternoon / early evening. Sometimes when she does this, she has a urinary tract infection. Sometimes not. She drinks some extra water during that time -- not an extreme amount, nowhere near too much on a daily basis for her size, but kind of a lot over a short period of time.

 

Since her problem time is just before and a couple hours after her afternoon meal, I got the idea of changing her food. Took her completely off commercial food, homecooked only, starting similar to an elimination diet (only beef, eggshell for calcium, peas, sweet potatoes, white potatoes, NO supplements, NO additives, NO other treats). Starting within 24 hours, she was drinking less, going out less, no leaking.

 

Vet thought problem might be salt. Tried a low-salt prescription diet. Back to drinking more, peeing more starting day one; having some leaking by day 5. Gave it a couple more days just in case. No change.

 

Resumed elimination diet. Problem disappeared again within 24 hours. Could be coincidence but hmmmmm. At this point I have added fish and a pet multivitamin to her diet; on day 10 of the multivitamin and she is still doing fine. So we will keep going and add one thing every 2-3 weeks and see what happens.

 

Now I'm sort of targeting one of the limited-ingredient commercial kibbles; if she can have all the separate ingredients besides the vitamin/mineral stuff they add, we'll try kibble again and see what happens. That's @ 2 months off. If it turns out she can't have commercial food for a reason we may never pinpoint, OK by me. Right now she seems happy and healthy, has energy and a lovely coat.

 

NOT saying this is your dog's problem, just that it's worth exploring a bit since the incontinence meds can have side effects for some dogs.

[fourofem]

I had the same problem with Stel; after just about every test and ultrasound known, she was put on a potassium supplement (RenaKare). Check out Robert McDowell's site; I can't remember exactly the url but if you do a search on his name, you'll find it. He's a herbalist in Australia...he's very familiar with greys and after talking to him a couple of times, I tried his incontinence formula on her. I can't really say if it was the RenaKare or the herbs, but within a month or so, the sleeping flood stopped. She'll be on the RenaKare forever but I have since stopped the drops and she's still cruising....that's not to say she won't have an accident now and then (usually when it's really nasty outside and she just doesn't want to get her feet wet!). She had a horrible reaction to Proin...I've never seen a dog vomit so much in eight hours as she did after one pill! I'd advise against that.

[Guest Greyhoundbaby]

Julie "leaks" when she's sleeping. The vet didn't consider it incontinence - because it was only a leak and only when she was sleeping. She's been on one half Proin twice a day and we've not had a problem.

[Guest KennelMom]

I had Haley on DES for spay incontinence then switched her to Proin b/c Caesar took that for age-related incontinence and it was easier to keep track of one med. She did fine on both...they both worked. She's not always on Proin - only when she starts to have a problem and she'll take it for a few months or so and we wean her off and she's good for another long while.

 

Good advice above, though, on ruling out a low grade UTI. Haley was definitely spay incontinence - leaking when she slept, obsessive cleaning. During the day, she could hold her pee forever...just when she relaxed she lost control.

[Guest vahoundlover]

Dolly started off having a full bladder release in her sleep, it happened once and didn't happen again for well over a year..I passed it off as a one time thing...the second time it happened, it was the same...she was sleeping and it didn't occur again for 6 months.. then she started having full bladder releases daily..she was at the vets 3 out of the last 5 days before we lost her....the vet put her on Phenylpropanamine on monday she died from a toxic reaction to it tuesday night. She was 6 wks shy of her 6th birthday

 

The holistic vet that I use is also on the board for the EVet here, she knew Dolly's story well, even before she realized that THAT Dolly was my Dolly. She told me she has had really good success with herbals. If any of my dogs start having incontinence problems, I will go that route.

 

Here is an old thread I found on incontinence

http://forum.greytalk.com/index.php?showtopic=4056

[gracegirl]

Dolly started off having a full bladder release in her sleep, it happened once and didn't happen again for well over a year..I passed it off as a one time thing...the second time it happened, it was the same...she was sleeping and it didn't occur again for 6 months.. then she started having full bladder releases daily..she was at the vets 3 out of the last 5 days before we lost her....the vet put her on Phenylpropanamine on monday she died from a toxic reaction to it tuesday night. She was 6 wks shy of her 6th birthday

 

The holistic vet that I use is also on the board for the EVet here, she knew Dolly's story well, even before she realized that THAT Dolly was my Dolly. She told me she has had really good success with herbals. If any of my dogs start having incontinence problems, I will go that route.

 

Here is an old thread I found on incontinence

http://forum.greytalk.com/index.php?showtopic=4056

Oh no, I'm so sorry to read this! That is so sad. Thanks for the link!

[greyhoundlov]

the vet put her on Phenylpropanamine on monday she died from a toxic reaction to it tuesday night. She was 6 wks shy of her 6th birthday

 

My China Blue had a stroke while on PPA (Proin).

[sweetdogs]

Here is an article on incontinence that talks about uti's, meds, a grain-free diet & some herbal options. Hope Gracie doesn't have to go on meds - yikes.

[Guest minzenon]

I would start on the sinus tablets first (as long as its not an infection you are dealing with) Make sure the sinus tablets are pure Pseudoephedrin -1 tablet twice a day for 4-5 days then down to 1 tablet a day for another couple of days. You will soon know if this medication will work for your grey. This medication actually works on the central nervous system which in turn controls the bladder, this dosage in humans only works on the nasal system. They have been having lots of success with this medication for incontinence in dogs. It worked wonders for my boy. There was also no side effects that I noticed, and its only a short course, and it doesnt cost a lot of money.

[Guest vahoundlover]

Lauren, I know Montgomery2524 (Lynda) had success using this...she's not on GT very often, I bet Alisha (2hounds) could put you in touch with her if you want to ask her about it.

 

http://www.onlynaturalpet.com/product_deta...9038&click=

[Guest lapatte]

well, Hima is starting to pee in her sleep as well! it's been a couple of days now... and it's not only a few drops... it's full bladder! yuck!

 

we are off to the vet on Thursday... and I will be prepared =o) thanks to the board...

 

I'll post how it goes...

 

nat

[gracegirl]

Let us know how it goes with the vet, Nat!

 

I had Grace to the vet this AM. Did a urine draw directly from her bladder. No UTI. The culture will be back in a few days. Knowing Grace, I'm 99.9% sure it's spay incontinence and not a UTI. I got a message from the vet this afternoon to talk about options, but he's off now so I'll call tomorrow morning. He mentioned Proin and DES in the message. I'll let you know what I decide.

 

Grace has recently been on antibiotics, I'll have to check her paperwork to see which two. Would those have killed any bacteria from a UTI, or is there a specific med for a UTI?? I'm thinking if she was on the antibiotics already for her wounds and nothing changed, there is no reason to try MORE antibiotics. I'll talk to the vet tomorrow as well.

[Guest greybookends]

Lauren Sheana is on the Proin and has been for the last 2 years. She takes 1/2 a pill twice a day. She has had no ill effects. As a matter of fact next time we go to the vet we may have to increase the dosage as she has resently leaked a little.

[Guest Carla]

I'm sorry to hear about your Grace.

 

I would strongly suggest you try herbals first.

 

My Major was on Proin for incontinence and also on soloxine for thyroid. Major had a stroke and my vet thought the combination of the Proin and Soloxine may have caused the high blood pressure that contributed to Major's stroke. Major had the stroke in February 2004 and recovered. In January 2005, we sadly made the difficult decision to end Major's suffering from halth problems associated with the infirmities of old age.

 

Hope you get Grace's incontinence under control.

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Guest MZH]

I'm with Carla and Mary.

 

Our Sparkle also had a fatal hemorrhagic stroke from Proin/ppa. She had been fighting me when I was giving it to her towards the end. In retrospect I know she was trying to tell me to not give her the Proin. She refused to chew it; I had to put it down her throat. I'll not give that again. It's too bad because it works very well.

 

Marcia in SC

 

 

[Guest LolasMom]

I had very good luck using acupuncture and herbs for my older girls incontinence. We never had to resort to drugs. When we began her treatment there was dripping throughout the day as well as the bladder often emptying during the night (3-4 times a week). Hers was not spay incontinence but age related.

The drugs I know are also extremely effective.

[gracegirl]

Thanks for your feedback everyone. I'm trying her on Resources Canine Incontinence Support supplements. The main ingredients are wild yam root, bee pollen, rehmannia, angelica sinensis, psoralea, glandalai, and licorice. Today is day one on the supplements...I'll let you know how it's going.

[Guest vahoundlover]

I've been wondering what you decided to go with. Will keep my fingers crossed this does the trick!

[seeh2o]

I found this on another board where someone's senior pugs are having a problem:

"Proin" is the medication for incontinence and "Phyto B" (made by Bezwecken) is the natural supplement. Phyto B is actually a natural horomone supplement made for women but apparently is used for animals as well, in case anyone googles it make sure to include "dogs"...anyway, those are two things prescribed by both a western and eastern practicing vet that have been successful...."

[Guest lapatte]

the vet told us her blood was normal for a greyhound...and that the urine was bacteria free as well... so we will be going on incontinence drugs... not sure what... picking them up tomorrow... let's hope this works out well!

nat