Endocrinology Interpretation? Thyroid Questions...

[fritofeet]

A houndies test results have me scratching my head.....I guess the diesel fumes here have gotten to me. Anybody want to give me the english version of what this says?

 

 

Endocrinology Interpretation:

 

Thyroid hormone concentrations are low but there is not the elevation of thyroid stimulating hormone that occurs with most cases of primary hypothyroidism. The negative autoantibody results decrease the likelihood of lymphocytic thyroiditis. These results present a diagonostic dilema. The pattern of results in this profile may reflect a metabolic response to other non-thyroidal illnesses and/or medication and the dog is not hypothyroid. However, hypothyroidism remains a possibility, as a small percentage of hypothyroid dogs do not have an elevation of thyroid stimulating hormone. A decision to initiate thyroid supplementaion depends on the strength of the clinical signs of hypothyroidism and the confidence that there is no other underlying illness.

 

 

scratch scratch scratch hmmmm, so the underlying message I got is they have no idea if I should treat or not.

 

 

TT4 = 5 L

TT3 = 1.0

FT4 = 5 L

FT3 = 2.5 L

T4 aa = 2

T3 aa = 5

thyroid stimulating hormone = 16

thyoglobulin autoantibody = 12

 

 

So this raises questions too, not only what I should ask the vet-but if you do treat with solaxine-what are the side effects if they don't need it?

 

Thanks in advance!

[feemandvm]

A houndies test results have me scratching my head.....I guess the diesel fumes here have gotten to me. Anybody want to give me the english version of what this says?

 

 

Endocrinology Interpretation:

 

Thyroid hormone concentrations are low but there is not the elevation of thyroid stimulating hormone that occurs with most cases of primary hypothyroidism. The negative autoantibody results decrease the likelihood of lymphocytic thyroiditis. These results present a diagonostic dilema. The pattern of results in this profile may reflect a metabolic response to other non-thyroidal illnesses and/or medication and the dog is not hypothyroid. However, hypothyroidism remains a possibility, as a small percentage of hypothyroid dogs do not have an elevation of thyroid stimulating hormone. A decision to initiate thyroid supplementaion depends on the strength of the clinical signs of hypothyroidism and the confidence that there is no other underlying illness.

 

 

scratch scratch scratch hmmmm, so the underlying message I got is they have no idea if I should treat or not.

 

 

TT4 = 5 L

TT3 = 1.0

FT4 = 5 L

FT3 = 2.5 L

T4 aa = 2

T3 aa = 5

thyroid stimulating hormone = 16

thyoglobulin autoantibody = 12

 

 

So this raises questions too, not only what I should ask the vet-but if you do treat with solaxine-what are the side effects if they don't need it?

 

Thanks in advance!

The thyroid results as a stand alone are unremarkable for a Greyhound for me. What you need to know is how many signs does the hound have that can be attributed to hypothyroidism and how sure are we that hypothyroidism is the primary cause?

 

Now you are starting to see why this diagnosis in hounds can be very hard!

 

 

[ahicks51]

When we started Coco on synthetic thyroid, we were informed that there were no negative side effects- no problems with withdrawl, etc. It's a no-lose situation to just try it and look (objectively!) for improvement.

 

Also note that the thyroid numbers we get on greys are very close to the detection limits- meaning that accuracy and precision are problematic. Assuming the test wasn't botched (a very real possibility), ANY blood value is a snapshot at the time taken anyway.

 

Skepticism!

[Burpdog]

Is this Hogan hound or grey hound? Are there symptoms? How old is the dog?

[silverfish]

I'd like to point out that while thyroxine doesn't usually give any side effects as such, if you dose with thyroxine when the dog doesn't need it, you are effectively OVER dosing, and overdosing with thyoxine can be bad in that it can put a strain on the heart and/or result in excitability.

 

As a person who suffers from myxoedema and takes thyroxine daily, that's my understanding.

[Batmom]

If those were my results, I would want to see some symptoms that were pretty specific to hypothyroidism -- and not something else -- before starting dosing. To me those symptoms would almost have to be hair loss (other than a shedding or baldness pattern that's considered normal for the breed), lethargy, and weight gain on very little food. A lot of the other things that people attribute to low thyroid are specific for anything but. Giving a bit of additional thyroid, whether it's needed or not, will result in a "brighter," more energetic dog who probably grows more hair; giving too much can result in problems with nervousness, aggression, weight loss .......

 

Thyroid meds are pretty safe but can cause problems if there are heart issues, adrenal disorders, etc.

[Guest greytmonty]

I am not sure if you saw my thread this week on the same topic.

Monty HAS clinical signs so we are treating for one month and reevaluating.

http://forum.greytalk.com/index.php?showto...&hl=thyroid

 

[fritofeet]

I am not sure if you saw my thread this week on the same topic.

Monty HAS clinical signs so we are treating for one month and reevaluating.

http://forum.greytalk.com/index.php?showto...&hl=thyroid

 

 

I did read that with great interest and threw out a big old long pm to Dr. Bill.

 

 

There is just a lot of questions that the report created, and I really need to make sure before I "test" the soloxine.

 

[fritofeet]

If those were my results, I would want to see some symptoms that were pretty specific to hypothyroidism -- and not something else -- before starting dosing. To me those symptoms would almost have to be hair loss (other than a shedding or baldness pattern that's considered normal for the breed), lethargy, and weight gain on very little food. A lot of the other things that people attribute to low thyroid are specific for anything but. Giving a bit of additional thyroid, whether it's needed or not, will result in a "brighter," more energetic dog who probably grows more hair; giving too much can result in problems with nervousness, aggression, weight loss .......

 

Thyroid meds are pretty safe but can cause problems if there are heart issues, adrenal disorders, etc.

 

 

There are some symptoms that pointed to testing...but I think you just answered my question.

 

I don't need too much meds in this dog.

 

Thanks Batmom, you always have good advice and kind words.

[zimsmom]

My vet also starting questioning low functioning thyroid in Zim. I went to Dr. Stack web site & printed out normals for greyhounds. She fell in the range. She also is skinny, anxiety ridden & very active for a grey so no signs of low functioning thyroid; no meds needed.

Try to check out Dr. Stacks web site.

Patty

[Batmom]

How old is the dog?

 

Just to muddy the waters a bit .... that is a relevant question. If you have done the other obvious tests and you have an older dog who is failing (or a young one in particularly bad shape), it may be worth a trial of meds to see if pup improves. Doesn't prevent you from continuing to look for or continue testing for other problems, and doesn't prevent you from ending the trial if it doesn't work out.

 

I tend to be skeptical of borderline thyroid results but when all else fails and you are looking at the dog's quality of life, trying meds isn't a bad thing to do.

[feemandvm]

Several things:

 

1. The blood testing you can do for food allergies is VERY inaccurate so I would basically ignore those test results. The environmental allergens are likely significant and would need to be addressed.

2. I would consider a trial of hypoallergenic food, my personal preference is for Hill's SD Z/D or Purina HA. Many other options exist but I really like the hydrolyzed protein diets.

3. Try to control the itching with medications such as fatty acid supplementation (give 10mg of EPA per 10 lbs. of body weight... I normally use 3V HP caps to accomplish this), anti-histamines, shampoos and rinses. If these combinations are not working you can ask your vet about Atopica which is an effective but very $$$ treatment option. : ( Sounds like he did NOT do well on the steroids!

4. If possible, you may want to consult with a dermatologist to help decide if you think the skin problems are related to a low thyroid level. The problem is that the test results could be compatible with hypothyroidism or a non-thyroidal illness that is suppressing thyroid function. A skin specialist may be able to help you sort that out a bit easier.

5. Side effects with Soloxine are generally rare. Here is what is listed in the drug book:

 

Adverse Effects/Warnings

 

When administered at an appropriate dose to patients requiring thyroid hormone replacement, there should not be any adverse effects associated with therapy. For adverse effects associated with overdosage, see below.

 

Overdosage

 

Chronic overdosage will produce symptoms of hyperthyroidism, including tachycardia, polyphagia, PU/PD, excitability, nervousness and excessive panting. Dosage should be reduced and/or temporarily withheld until symptoms subside. Some (10%?) cats may exhibit symptoms of "apathetic" (listlessness, anorexia, etc.) hyperthyroidism.

 

A single acute overdose in small animals is less likely to cause severe thyrotoxicosis than with chronic overdosage. Vomiting, diarrhea, hyperactivity to lethargy, hypertension, tachycardia, tachypnea, dyspnea, and abnormal pupillary light reflexes may be noted in dogs or cats. In dogs, clinical signs may appear within 1-9 hours after ingestion. If ingestion occurred within 2 hours, treatment to reduce absorption of drug should be accomplished using standard protocols (emetics, cathartics, charcoal) unless contraindicated by the patient's condition. Treatment is supportive and symptomatic. Oxygen, artificial ventilation, cardiac glycosides, beta-blockers (e.g., propranolol), fluids, dextrose and antipyretic agents have all been suggested for use if necessary. It is recommended to contact a veterinary poison control center for further guidance.

 

6. With all hte changes that you described in your PM... I would consider thyroid supplementation in my own dog if I were in that scenario. Obviously I can't diagnose him on-line but if seeing a dermatologist wasn't a possiblity... then I would likely opt for trial therapy.

 

PM me back if you have more questions. I replied to the message board b/c I needed to review his thyroid panel.

 

 

 

 

[fritofeet]

This is the red hound, Hogan. He's almost a grey hound. He's almost 3-and with the really freaky and scary reaction to the Temeril P we have been diligent about his food and trying to control his environmental allergies. The vet constantly shakes his head about allergies since he is so shiny on top-but you flip him over and he chews all the fur off his legs and chest. So between that and the agression on the steroids, we thought we would run a full panel on his thyroid.

 

I'm going out of town for the weekend, and have an appointment at the vet on tuesday-so I'll have a bunch of questions now for them.

 

Thank you Dr. Bill, I really appreciate your post. It helps.

[Burpdog]

Have you talked with the breeder about him?

[Guest SillyDog]

I'd like to point out that while thyroxine doesn't usually give any side effects as such, if you dose with thyroxine when the dog doesn't need it, you are effectively OVER dosing, and overdosing with thyoxine can be bad in that it can put a strain on the heart and/or result in excitability.

 

As a person who suffers from myxoedema and takes thyroxine daily, that's my understanding.

 

 

Yes, mine, too. Whenever I've been over-supplemented my doctor reduces my dosage. Over-supplementing can lead to hear problems, mood problems and lose of bone density. You're in effect making the dog/human go from hypothyroidism to hyperthyroidism.

 

 

 

If those were my results, I would want to see some symptoms that were pretty specific to hypothyroidism -- and not something else -- before starting dosing. To me those symptoms would almost have to be hair loss (other than a shedding or baldness pattern that's considered normal for the breed), lethargy, and weight gain on very little food. A lot of the other things that people attribute to low thyroid are specific for anything but. Giving a bit of additional thyroid, whether it's needed or not, will result in a "brighter," more energetic dog who probably grows more hair; giving too much can result in problems with nervousness, aggression, weight loss .......

 

Thyroid meds are pretty safe but can cause problems if there are heart issues, adrenal disorders, etc.

 

 

There are some symptoms that pointed to testing...but I think you just answered my question.

 

I don't need too much meds in this dog.

 

Thanks Batmom, you always have good advice and kind words.

 

 

Well, it's not generally known by MDs, but euthyroid or low thyroid can cause hives. I had some problems with hives before I was diagnosed. I could probably pull up some med journal articles that talk about this. So, do the HOHO's skin problems start with hives?