Reaction To Vectra Flea Control

[macoduck]

My friend's little poodle mix is crashing. Friend put Vectra on her for the first time last night after a bath. Usually she uses Frontline but the vet at Banfield/Petsmart suggested Vectra.

This morning little "M" (I don't know how to spell her name) was very lethargic. Friend had to come in to work (where I do). Called Banfield, was advised to bathe her to remove the Vectra. Fortunately a neighbor was able to do that for her. She was able to leave work and took the dog to Banfield. Banfield vet swooped the dog to the back, gave her subQ fluids, said her temp was too low. No lab work done. Don't know how low the temp was but friend is going to call to find out.

Friend is home with M now. Then she noticed some vomit with blood in it that must have happened while she was at work.

I found a # for Vectra and their helpline then spoke with my friend and they were going to call the vet as well.

Vectra person said this flea control stays on the skin surface and is not absorbed I'm wondering if M might have licked it.

 

So anyone have a similar problem with Vectra?

 

Send little M some prayers please.

 

(I thought skin-applied products like this were not to be put on after a bath but to wait at least several days after a bath before applying. Does that sound right?)

Edited November 4, 2008 by macoduck

[Guest koolaidnconner]

I have no advice...just prayers and thoughts for the little gal!!

[Guest savvyprchick]

My advice is to get a second opinion from another vet! Prayers for the baby.

[Burpdog]

Had to go look it up. It's new and has a lot of poison in it.

 

Vectra 3-D for Dogs® (dinotefuran, permethrin, pyriproxifen) from Summit Vet Pharm

This product is a monthly spot-on application for flea, tick and mosquito control with an insect growth regulator. It provides long-lasting repellent, and is a fast acting adult flea killer that also provides control for the egg stage of the flea for at least 30 days. Permethrin is added to provide tick control and as a repellant. Pyriproxifen (Nylar) is added for flea egg control (See above.) Water and shampooing lowers efficacy after 14 days. Do not use on cats (because of the high concentration of permethrin). This product is fast-acting and should be very useful for households with flea allergy patients.

[Guest SueG201]

Way too many ingredients for our greys. I like Frontline and will not switch over to anything

else

[ahicks51]

Sounds like it's the dinotefuran, a third-generation neonicotinoid pesticide. The permethrin is a pyrethroid- not entirely safe, but generally okay- and the pyriproxifen is an insect growth regulator similar to methoprene, which is generally pretty safe stuff as its activity is to disrupt hormones in the insect (versus blocking its nerve channels unlike the dinotefuran). It's also possible there's a carrier or other compound in the product causing the problems, but my money is on the dinotefuran.

[ShantisMom]

(I thought skin-applied products like this were not to be put on after a bath but to wait at least several days after a bath before applying. Does that sound right?)

 

 

I have heard that too. At least 3 days. Shanti had a reaction to flea medication, but not that one and not like that.

 

We will keep the little one in our thoughts.

[macoduck]

Back from the vet again. When I went to my friend's apartment little M was still lethargic and I checked her temp: 92.3. She had to leave her there for over an hour while labs were run. Plus they continued to try and warm her.

Little M is a bit better now. Labs did not show anything definite. She was given a pill to help coat her tummy and intestines.

Vet's theory is she had some kind of reaction to the Vectra and by becoming inactive and by being a very small dog her temperature fell. That in turn made her not feel like eating, which made her nauseous and vomit. By the time we left her temp was up to 99.5

Blood glucose levels were OK. She is to be fed little teaspoons of baby food with just chicken/water/cornstarch in it. When she can hold that down then she can get teaspoons of canned I/D.

I think she may be over the worst of it.

Thanks for your prayers.

 

[MandysMom]

Poor little pup. Good thoughts for her.

[macoduck]

Little M is back at the vet. Been there all afternoon. She ate a little bit of the baby food recommended by the vet last night. Temp remains 99.something. Did drink some water. At lunch when my friend went home to check on her there was black diarrhea. Little M has been at the vet all afternoon and friend is awaiting a call with an update. We do know she was negative for parvo.

Edited October 30, 2008 by macoduck

[Burpdog]

Have they called the mfg of the product? I would.

[macoduck]

Have they called the mfg of the product? I would.

Yup, I did that yesterday. Found a phone number online and they were eager to help. They called my friend immediately and called the vet.

[4greyhounds]

I have no advice, but sending lots of prayers and white light....

[macoduck]

I have no advice, but sending lots of prayers and white light....

Thanks, little M is really going to need it.

[Guest greyhound1]

Sending prayers!

[cmc333]

Any update on little M?

[macoduck]

Still not good. Hasn't eaten since Tuesday. Had some bloody diarrhea last night. Has spent the day at the vet. Xray showed no obstruction.

Has been on an IV drip all day. Vet now wants to put her on an antibiotic. Says there's a bacterial overgrowth. Irritated colon has caused the blood in the diarrhea.

My friend can't decide whether to take little M to my vet for a 2nd opinion or not. She's going to wait until she sees her this afternoon but if she wants to see my vet she has be to there by 4:30.

I do not know the names of the medication (pill) given yesterday to help her tummy and bowels. She needs to eat and drink and wag her tail.

[macoduck]

This is now day 3.

The only thing Petsmart vet has done is give subQ fluids for 2 days after a day with them then send her home. Today she had IV fluids all day.

The bill is now over $900.

She was sent home today with vibramycin (doxy) in liquid form.

The pill given yesterday was sucralphate (also spelled sucralfate). Since she won't swallow the pill owner is to break it up, mix with a bit of water and squirt into mouth via syringe.

What makes me mad is they gave her no medication today while she was with them. While they have her why not administer the sucralphate to help calm that colon?

I'm guessing little M won't eat anything because she remains so nauseous. she hasn't eaten in 3 days now.

 

Unless someone has a lightbulb moment here things are looking bleak.

 

I've offered to take little M to my vet but that won't be until tomorrow afternoon (since my friend can't leave work no matter what).

 

Question: how long should it take for sucralphate to begin having a positive effect? I couldn't find anything on the manufacturers site.

 

[CaliforniaGreys]

I don't know how I missed this! No experience here Ducky, but we sure have a lot of prayers for little"M"

[greyhndz]

Ducky, a few thoughts (and a lot of concerns - I'd recommend very strongly that she be taken to an E-clinic that can resuscitate her and do appropriate diagnostics.

 

Black stools may indicate a GI bleed, but not from the colon. This is generally from the stomach or small bowel (usually duodenum, immediately past the stomach). To confirm this, the vet could have easily done tested for occult blood in the stool. If she's bleeding to the point that she's having black (melenotic) stools, she may well be in shock, and that could account for low BP, elevated heart rate, hypothermia, and lethargy.

 

I think the only chance she has at this point is not just fluid resuscitation, but probably endoscopy, possibly transfusion depending upon what her numbers look like, and most importantly, getting her out of the hands of vets who don't seem to know j*cksh*t about a critically-ill dog.

 

I wouldn't expect to have seen much in the way of response to sucralfate at this point, not with a dog this sick.

 

Jordan

 

Pardon my French.

[feemandvm]

As previous poster noted... black stools would indicate an upper GI bleed (stomach or upper small intestine). That is a very serious and potentially life threatening problem. The fact that she cannot maintain a normal body temperature is also very concerning. It is good that x-rays were done and ruled out an obstruction but there is still cause for other concerns. What should be done?

 

1. Baseline bloodwork: CBC, profile, PLI (this is a test for pancreatitis). An elevated BUN and low red blood cell count would be typical of ulceration.

 

2. Medication: without doing an examination it is hard to comment specifically... but I would strongly consider

Carafate (already on) 1/2 tablet 3x/day given 30 minutes before Famotidine.

Famotidine 2x/day (this is generic for Pepcid AC)

Metronidazole 2x/day antibiotic for diarrhea

Cerenia 1x/day for nausea/vomiting

IV fluids and heated cage until able to maintain body temperature

 

3. Get a 2nd opinion at your vet. Not saying the 1st vet did anything wrong, sometimes just getting a 2nd set of eyes on a case is beneficial.

 

We don't use Vectra at our clinic but I've not heard of any reactions like that. What did the mfg say?

[macoduck]

As previous poster noted... black stools would indicate an upper GI bleed (stomach or upper small intestine). That is a very serious and potentially life threatening problem. The fact that she cannot maintain a normal body temperature is also very concerning. It is good that x-rays were done and ruled out an obstruction but there is still cause for other concerns. What should be done?

 

1. Baseline bloodwork: CBC, profile, PLI (this is a test for pancreatitis). An elevated BUN and low red blood cell count would be typical of ulceration.

 

2. Medication: without doing an examination it is hard to comment specifically... but I would strongly consider

Carafate (already on) 1/2 tablet 3x/day given 30 minutes before Famotidine.

Famotidine 2x/day (this is generic for Pepcid AC)

Metronidazole 2x/day antibiotic for diarrhea

Cerenia 1x/day for nausea/vomiting

IV fluids and heated cage until able to maintain body temperature

 

3. Get a 2nd opinion at your vet. Not saying the 1st vet did anything wrong, sometimes just getting a 2nd set of eyes on a case is beneficial.

 

We don't use Vectra at our clinic but I've not heard of any reactions like that. What did the mfg say?

Thank you Dr Feeman.

The manufacturer only asked questions of the owner and of the veterinarian and to my knowledge did not make any suggestions.

[feemandvm]

As previous poster noted... black stools would indicate an upper GI bleed (stomach or upper small intestine). That is a very serious and potentially life threatening problem. The fact that she cannot maintain a normal body temperature is also very concerning. It is good that x-rays were done and ruled out an obstruction but there is still cause for other concerns. What should be done?

 

1. Baseline bloodwork: CBC, profile, PLI (this is a test for pancreatitis). An elevated BUN and low red blood cell count would be typical of ulceration.

 

2. Medication: without doing an examination it is hard to comment specifically... but I would strongly consider

Carafate (already on) 1/2 tablet 3x/day given 30 minutes before Famotidine.

Famotidine 2x/day (this is generic for Pepcid AC)

Metronidazole 2x/day antibiotic for diarrhea

Cerenia 1x/day for nausea/vomiting

IV fluids and heated cage until able to maintain body temperature

 

3. Get a 2nd opinion at your vet. Not saying the 1st vet did anything wrong, sometimes just getting a 2nd set of eyes on a case is beneficial.

 

We don't use Vectra at our clinic but I've not heard of any reactions like that. What did the mfg say?

Thank you Dr Feeman.

The manufacturer only asked questions of the owner and of the veterinarian and to my knowledge did not make any suggestions.

If the vet contacts them... they will be connected to the medical services dept. and they should be able to answer if any other similar problems have been reported.

 

[macoduck]

We are headed to the E-vet now................

[macoduck]

Back with a happy ending!

 

In 3 hours at the E-vet little M got better care than in 3 days at Banfield. Banfield was content to send her home yesterday with "we don't know what else to do other than send you out of town for an ultrasound" - omitting that a local vet does ultrasounds. She spent all day in their care yet she was discharged with very dry very pale gums - obviously still dehydrated.

 

E-vet administered IV fluid containing sucrose (?) to help give her blood some viscosity, gave subQ fluids, gave a Cerenia injection to calm the bowels, and gave a pepcid injection.

She said nothing -food-medicine-water was to be given by mouth until 24 hours after vomiting had stopped (contrary to Banfield's order).

 

By this morning little M had perked up, by lunchtime she was even better. We just got back from another visit to the E-vet for another round of IV fluids. tomorrow the catheter can come out and she can try to eat again.

 

Thank you all for your prayers, and Dr Feeman, thank you so much for your advice.