Irritable Bowel Disease & Protein Losing Enteropathy

[Guest nico021]

Please advise. My Grey has had diarrhea for 3 months, literally. After many doctors, tests, medicines & 1000$ in food, here is where we are at. Being treated for the above (topic title). Low albumin& globulin & slightly low red count. All other tests ok. Ultrasound ok too. I will not anesthetize him, scared he will crash. Since last doctor visit (last week) our new great internist is going with budesonide & cyclosporine, 2 small doses of each. Also, after home cooking and trying I don't know countless holistic foods, I went RAW! For the first time good poop, however not consistently. I am also giving probiotics & an occasional freeze dried raw treat (he loved his treats). Still can't pinpoint what triggers the runs but the RAW seems to be the best so far. My pup is very thin and I need him to poop well & put on weight to raise his levels, he is so thin. Also I am giving B 12 injections and folate supplement . I never know what will trigger an explosion but before the raw food it was clear fluid out of his bottom straight into the ground . I just want good poop and for him to get through this. Has anyone ever experienced this with their gr has anyone ever experienced this with their Grey?

[greysmom]

Yes. I have a dog with IBS currently, and lost a dog to PLE several years ago. They are really two different sorts of diseases, though hopefully one fo the veterinary types here on GT can explain it.

 

Here's what I can tell you about what we've done for our IBD dog, Lilly.

 

#1) Make very very very sure your dog is completely worm free. Lilly had hooks when she came to us and it took 8 months of treatment to finally have three well-spaced negative fecals. And hookworms can really destroy the digestive tract of your dog. You can search through this section of Greytalk for many threads about how to effectively treat hookworms.

 

#2) Do a food trial to determine if a food allergy or intolerance is at the root of your dog's issues. Lilly can't have *any* chicken. Any at all. Not even way down the ingredient list that says "tocopherols for preservative (from chicken fat)" that supposed to be hydrolyzed so much to be tolerable. She can't eat Rx foods with chicken either. Sometimes a dog will do fine with the raw version of something they are allergic too, but Lilly won't eat raw (yes, she's weird). We discovered this by doing a food trial that took several months of feeding only one protein source and only once carb source at a time to see what she reacted too.

 

#3) The only way to definitively diagnose either disease is through a biopsy of the intestines, along with bloodwork. We did not do this. But Lilly had classic IBS symptoms - vomiting, nausau, constant diarrhea, not wanting to eat, horrible stomach noises throughout the day (squeaking and rumbling), inability to put on weight.

 

#4) Standard treatment for both is steroids and antibiotics - just like what you're doing. We did not do this either. Many dogs can do quite well under this regimen though.

 

#5) Before being referred to an internal specialist and going the medication treatment route we decided to give acupuncture a try. I had nothing against alternative treatments before, though I had never heard of using acupuncture for IBS. Turns out, acupuncture works very well for digestive disorders. We were recommended to a veterinary practitioner of holistic/chinese medicine from our regular vet. Treatment began with a series of 5-6 needle sessions. After the third session Lilly was so much better it was like a miracle! Her anxiety lessened dramatically. Her car sickness and morning vomiting disappeared. So did her stomach noises and much of her nausau. We found a food she liked and tolerated well, and within a month of beginning treatment her poops were 100% better. After her needle sessions Lilly began a course of chinese medicinal herb treatments which we are just now finishing. She has had several "touch up" needle sessions every 4-6 months.

 

#6) Food - Lilly didn't like kibble so she eats a (mostly) canned food diet. It's a "complete" food with a protein, carb, and supplements so there's no need for kibble. She still doesn't eat a lot, but she put on weight and is at a good level currently. She will now eat a little kibble for one meal. (Though kibble isn't necessary, it's only more cost effective than canned food). Along with her canned food she gets a purreed sweet potato add-in, and a cooked oat bran add-in to give her some added fiber. She gets a pro-/pre-biotic on her twice-daily meals. She also gets a snack (which my other dogs are very jealous of!) that helps her keep something on her stomach most of the time. She will also take (and eat!) treats now where she didn't before.

 

She's so much happier and has so much more energy now. I hope you can figure out your dog for the same outcome. Good luck!

[MaryJane]

My Lucy has IBD which was caused by one of her seizure meds. She is on B12 shots and at the beginning was also on probiotics. She is on a home-made diet (not raw) which has white fish (tilipia) as the protein and that has helped tremendously. She also gets veggies, rice, oatmeal and a few other snacks during the day. The oatmeal is very good for adding fiber. The internist and I discussed whether to use meds for the IBD and we both felt that she was already on too many meds (3) for the seizures and decided to try the route of fish only protein diet, B12, and Probiotics. It has been more than 2 years and she is stable and gained back the weight that she lost.

 

I would suggest not using any chicken - cooked or otherwise as they treat chickens with antibiotics and with mass production - they are contaminated with bacteria (they used to dip chickens in bleach - don't know if they do that anymore). You can get tilapia at Walmart (sourced in China which is not great) for about $12 for 4 pounds which is a great price.

[Guest nico021]

Thank you both for your replies... Definitely food for thought! I am surely going to go for an accupuncture trial. The food has been such an ordeal though. Diego didn't want to eat until the RAW food was introduced. I was in a daily battle of what will he eat today and if he had some, he would not repeat it. I did pick up a diamond brand limited ingredient with hydrolyzed protein today. It seems this gets more complicated each day. Last week he had a neurological episode which I thought was a second case for him of vestibulitis, but it wasn't although it was very similar & today he coughed a bit (like if something was stuck in his throat) and was physically weak but he has improved since (not to mention he was first at the door when it was walking time for the others). Could cough be acid reflux? fluid in lungs? He had a physical last week and appeared overall stable. I truly hope this can be resolved as I just finished my first children's book which features my 3 rescues and sharing it without my beloved Diego would be heartbreaking and possibly impossible to do.

[greysmom]

If he's on metronidazole/Flagyl, one of the side effects is neurological issues. You may need to discuss changing his antibiotic to Tylan powder or another low level drug. The steroids are going to mess with his mind too.

 

Chicken and corn are the two foods that dogs are most often allergic to. You might try a food with limited ingredients using a unique protein like fish, rabbit, or bison, and stay away from chicken all together.

[Houndtime]

Our Fuzzy had some severe stomach issues. It was suspected to be pancreatitis or IBD. I spent $1300 in a very short time on tests, medicines, and specialty food at the vet. He lost 5 lbs in 11 days. Someone recommended the veterinarian's potato diet and within 12 hours the diarrhea stopped. We never looked back.

 

I also gave him slippery elm bark and a small amount of protein.

 

Cook together one white potato, one sweet potato, one leek and one turnip. I made double batches and added some home cooked oatmeal and one tablespoon canned (human grade) chicken.

 

I also refused to let him have a stomach scope or biopsy. We don't know what started the diarrhea but we know what stopped it. This was after taking tylan powder, flagyl and other meds. You can look up the diet on the internet. I think you can only do it for 4 or 5 days. Good luck with your boy.

[Guest nico021]

thank you... yes, no more flagyl or tylan- none worked... the neurological episode was b4 the steroid introduction but now researching and today's episodes are checking off on the acid reflux list... now to treat that...

yes diet contains no chicken, no grains corn etc... RAW nature's variety instinct & i may try a hydrolyzed protein kibble but I am so scared to try anything new & doing that would have him at 2 proteins... i will do my best...

[JenniferS]

Just to clarify, IBS is Irritable Bowel Syndrome, IBD is Inflammatory Bowel Disease, and more serious. I'm guessing your dog has IBD. Our Ducky had IBD & PLE, we did not do the scope to biopsy though. We kept him on a strict diet, and he had vit B12 shots, I think we eventually put him on prednisone, but it also caused a ton of weight loss and pee accidents. He did develop fluid around the lungs and unfortunately deteriorated. There are some support groups on facebook, etc.

[racindog]

Greys commonly have digestive "issues" especially soft poop or diarrhea. I recently "discovered" something that has helped my Gilly Boy and shows a lot of promise I think for such things. First a little background. I am a working dog handler. I was at the K9 Cops Conference in Louisville, KY and a lady at a Naturich's K9 Finest booth basically handed me a good size jar of it as I was walking by. I am extremely particular about what I feed so I had no particular interest in what at the time I considered to be just another supplement in the sea of supplements that are available. I too prefer to feed raw because in my experience they do better on it. Gilly Boy though for some reason does better(poop wise) on a mostly kibble diet. My working dog, a maligator, does best on the raw. I am not surprised your boy does better on the raw. One major advantage it has is that it contains all the enzymes necessary for its digestion so his poor stressed body doesn't have to produce them. Green tripe would probably be especially beneficial to him. Anyway I read the info that was supplied with it and it said it contained a PRE-biotic (different than a probiotic) and it seemed to be particularly good for digestive poop issues. Weeks later Gilly Boy had to have a large tooth extracted and was on a good bit of antibiotics. I was concerned he would develop diarrhea and ~ 2/3 of the way through the course of antibiotics I remembered I had that jar of K9 Finest so I started him on it. Not only did he not develop any diarrhea but his coat noticeably improved and he clearly felt better! I had him on Springtimes Skin & Coat Oil for over a year but he still had bad dandruff when I started the K9 Finest. K9 Finest totally got rid of the dandruff and I took him off the Springtime Skin & Coat Oil quite a while ago now. His poops are more firm; he looks better; and last night I could hardly believe my eyes-he ran and played more than he EVER has-and he is an old man now! I also have not seen any of the digestive issues-he seems to be digesting his food noticeably better. After seeing how much Gilly improved I also put my working dog on it and while her improvements have not been as remarkable(she was much 'healthier' to begin with) her coat has added sheen. I have them both on the K9 Finest now and Fresh Factors(of course!) and am extremely pleased. I ordered a 1 lb container some time ago and am fixing to order a 5 lb when I get this post done as I don't want to take a chance on running out hehe.

 

Naturich also makes a tube prep that is highly touted for eliminating/preventing diarrhea. Your poor guys system is so upset now I would give him one of the tubes and then start him on the supplement right away. If you contact them I am sure they will be happy to make recommendations but you can probably find out everything you need to know from their web site. I have been involved with greyhounds for MANY years and I am so happy to have found this product. While it was designed originally to help working dogs deliver peak performance and deal with stress it is every bit as useful for helping the greyhounds sensitive digestive/poop issues too. It is now the FIRST thing I would try for such a greyhound. If you try it let me know how you houndie does. While I was originally skeptical I cannot argue with the results. I have never seen Gilly Boy feel so good and do so good. Last night seeing him run and run and run-just because he felt(and looked) so good- was all I needed to see to know it was 'working'. He gets 2 teaspoons a day because he weighs 80 lbs and it is very reasonably priced as well. The tube preparation is a little high, ~$15 I think, but not when you consider its effectiveness at helping the dog over the diarrhea-or preventing it all together. Be sure and check out the 'testimonials'. Here is the link: http://www.k9finest.com/index.html

Edited May 2, 2017 by racindog

[Guest nico021]

Thank you so much! I will look into it!! Sadly Diego had a stroke, but he is ok. We will start accupuncture on Friday to help him with all his issues. Poor thing lost 4 lbs in a week (unless the vet scale had a twitch either day). Yet, he has eaten well on his RAW this past week and finally! Good Poop! This was on only Raw with zero supplementation of any probiotics or digestive enzymes which are usually accompanied by a yogurt or applesauce or raw goat's milk to administer. no treats either of any kind. I just don't understand how he lost weight after eating better than he has in a long time released completing meals on delivering each time . As Long as he keeps on fighting we will do so as well. going to check on K9 finest.

[tbhounds]

Just wanted to mention that budesonide gave my severely afflicted ibd dog 3 extra years I don't think I would have had without it.

All the best.

[Guest nico021]

yes! he takes budesonide once a day, but I truly think the change to RAW made alllllll the difference because he pooped solid with raw and no med. Hoping the good poop will reverse this and allow him to absorb vitamins and nutrients and put on some weight!! He is also better today from his stroke. Praying for my pup.

[tbhounds]

The budesonide will reduce the inflammation within the gut. Believe it or not-a dog could have severe ibd and still have normal stools.

When are they having you repeat bloods?

[greyhead]

yes! he takes budesonide once a day, but I truly think the change to RAW made alllllll the difference because he pooped solid with raw and no med. Hoping the good poop will reverse this and allow him to absorb vitamins and nutrients and put on some weight!! He is also better today from his stroke. Praying for my pup.

Our dog with severe IBD required a multiple-treatment approach, and I'm sure yours does too. Raw food had to make up exactly 1/3 of his diet, with the rest being a novel-protein kibble (we picked venison). (You should understand the need for a single novel protein if you don't already.) Budesonide was a crucial component, and I agree with Tracy about that. We gave metronidazole, tylosin, sucralfate, and other things as needed (determined by symptoms a particular time). B-12 was crucial too, and he received acupuncture/chiro (mostly for his weakening back end but the doc said she was addressing his IBD also). We have to be careful about seeing improvement with a particular intervention and then concluding that that one thing is "it," as we all tend to do.