Leash Reactivity

[Guest Amber]

Good luck, hope it goes well. One thing that you can do in that fence running and barking behavior that you didn't like, put her on a leash and walk her away. You can't really expect her to behave perfectly off leash and free to do as she wants, when she still needs a lot of instruction on lead, so i would be on her straight away and removing her from an off leash situation where she is getting OTT.

 

I wouldn't expect the daycare to be a controlled setting, because the owners/handlers aren't there. But i guess it could be if they have a high ratio of trained, dog-wise staff who know all the dogs really well and are supervising and intervening if necessary.

Edited January 20, 2015 by Amber

[Guest Winnie2014]

Winnie was not a good fit for daycare. I'm going to go pick her up before lunch and take her for a walk before coming back to work.

 

It just wasn't a good fit. Perhaps we just need to do small Greyhound meetups instead of daycare with other dogs.

 

Edit: Ended up going back at work. She was perfectly fine when I picked her up. Happy to see me as much as she was happy to say hi to the people working at the daycare. On our walk we got some attention from a man who asked if she was a greyhound and when I got permission she got to come over to say hi. She licked and licked his face!

 

She's a sweetheart and a people-pleaser but she may need more of a low-key play group or even a Greyhound playdate. I didn't know how she would do unless we tried, and we did. So no harm in that.

Edited January 20, 2015 by Winnie2014

[Remolacha]

I am sorry the daycare didn't work out. It sounds like overall you are making great progress, though. I had a very leash reactive dog that I never had much success in training out of it. However, Fletcher was definitely protective and aggressive to other leashed dogs, sometimes even other greyhounds, if he thought they were giving him "attitude" It does not sound like Winnie is like that.

 

I have a new boy that started some barking at other leashed dogs about a week after I got him. Surprised me because for the first week, he had shown no reaction. Your thread reminded me to start the "look at me" training, and it is working very well. He still tenses up sometimes, but will be distracted. So it does work, just takes some time and patience!

 

Good luck, you are doing great!

[Guest Amber]

Sorry the daycare didn't work out. I'm glad she seemed happy enough when you went to get her tho. Maybe you can find some nice, steady dogs, greys or other, to go walking with? Parallel on leash walking or walking in a small group of non reactive dogs who are socially skilled and will ignore any inappropriate behaviour from her would be really beneficial in teaching her to calm down and chill out around other dogs. The parallel walking where the reactive dog walks Parallel to and gradually gets closer alongside the helper dog is a really useful technique, widely used, you could read up on it online.

 

Playdates and such where she is off leash at this stage may reinforce rough playing, high adrenalin, and could end up in one or other dog getting bitten if she gets out of control. I used to take my greys to off leash play with other greyhounds, but i wouldnt now, unless it was just 1 or 2 greys that i knew well. Believe me things can get hairy at these things! Since a lot of greys are rough players and they are so fast and some nip . Once she's learnt to be generally calmer and can listen to you on and off leash , that would be a good time for playdates with the right sort of dog.

 

If there's any good dog trainers near you maybe they have a balanced dog she can socialise with?

[Guest Winnie2014]

I'm not too concerned about her on-leash behavior any more...as long as we keep progressing, I'm happy. We'll eventually get to the point where we can pass dogs (either on my left or my right) and not react or sniff the grass instead of staring/jumping at the other dog (even if they do it first). We need to work more on recall on a long-lead at the park on a quiet day but when we're training in the apartment she will usually come when called. "Winnie!" or "Winnie, here!" - from about 2-3 feet away, so progress.

 

I'm just concerned that she isn't getting enough socialization with other dogs. A Greyhound meetup on leash might be a good option for her.

 

But how important is it for her to play with other dogs off-leash? I think she just gets really excited and while she isn't usually the instigator of the bad behavior, most of the dogs we meet I don't know the history of. If she's tired enough, she won't play at all with her toys, which is fine. Last Monday was really the last day she played with any of her stuffies when it was cooler outside. Now that we're up to mid 60's low 70's she is tired enough after our walks. (I don't want to think about the summer! 80-100 degrees + humidity...we're going to be doing short walks).

 

We've worked with a dog trainer but he usually doesn't bring his dog to his lessons and I don't really think that is an option as he comes to your home. Perhaps an obedience class might help her?

[Guest Amber]

Obedience class is really good idea, it definitely helped my Fey to build up confidence and also to get used to little dogs. We wait outside the hall and when the class before came out which was all the puppies and small dogs, she got to greet them on leash as they went past. At first I wasn't sure it would be good, as in the first class there was a rottie who was anti-social with other dogs (so we kept to our own end of the hall!) but thereafter, there were friendly dogs. Also was a small class, only 2 - 4 dogs, depending.

 

A smaller class is better. Plus, there you may meet people with nice dogs who want to meet up for walks as well, and she can make some friends.

 

I don't think it's that important for Fey to play off leash with other dogs and at first, she was a bit bossy and competitive. I didn't like that prey-drivey, chasing side of things, so I prefer to redirect her chase drive onto a ball and to play with me chucking the ball for her. She does occasionally play quite nicely with dogs we meet out on walks but she really prefers her ball, or someone chucking the ball and her and the other dog both chasing the ball. If she's playing and starts chasing the other dog and it gets a bit intense, that does make me a bit uncomfortable but I tell her to 'play nicely' or interrupt her. I'm lucky in that she is a very biddable greyhound in most respects, probably the most biddable of any I've had.

 

On the whole, I prefer to have a dog who I can walk off leash who will ignore other dogs and play with me instead. My big problem with her is someone else chucking a ball for their dog, as she swoops in really fast to steal their ball! She doesn't bother with the dog at all (I bet some owners are worried when they see her running over), just steals the ball. I'm finding this v. difficult to solve at the moment!

[Banjoman]

I have had Chancey just a year & she is still dog reactive on our walks except when we do a monthly greyhound walk when she just does the equivalent of "Oh we're walking with greyhounds, OK!" & walks as good as gold until we meet non greyhounds and then I 'm back to hanging on to her while she leaps in the air screaming with excitement, although if there are enough greyhounds around she doesn't always see the other dogs so easily and i can get her past them OK.

 

I have tried "Look at me" but have yet to find a treat that is more interesting than another dog and as she wears a muzzle whenever we are out walking it isn't easy to get food to her quickly. On the few occasions she has stood still enough for another dog to greet her her jaws have started snapping in the muzzle and the other dog has shied away or growled at her.

 

I am sure she is just excited at seeing other dogs and is not aggressive but she still has the chase instinct and play bitey urge. She is permanently alert when we are out walking and spots cyclists, pedestrians, cats, birds, anything that moves.

 

We regularly walk with another whippet and an Italian Greyhound but she'll get all silly with another greyhound that we meet out in the forest. I think she is getting better but I never know when she'll over react.

 

I've tried playing with a ball in the garden but she just runs after it then leaves it, it doesn't seem to occur to her to pick it up and play with it!

 

I've been told it will take anything up to 2 years for her to calm down - at least I'm half way there!

[Guest Amber]

Hi , that sounds quite extreme to me. I did once have a foster who was horrendously behaved with small dogs, leaping up and down on the spot and literally screaming. It was so bad and in the few months i looked after her didn't get better with exposure, as she was sure they were prey. So luckily she got adopted by a farmer way out in the sticks, private land, a lurcher friend and no near neighbours. She was fine with anything spaniel size up.

 

If you're ok with walking your chancey that's good , many people wouldn't be able to, especially if in an urban setting.

 

Maybe a 1 - 1 behaviourist could help to modify her reactions?

[Banjoman]

I think she is slowly improving, today we met a few other dogs & she was fairly quiet for a couple of them but if one is running around (whatever size) that just winds her up for the rest of the walk. Most of my walking is done in Forestry Commission land so the odds on seeing other dogs is quite high but I usually have space to take her to one side of the path.

 

I have thought about a behaviourist but need a veterinary referral here and I'm still hoping we can work through it! If she was being aggressive to other dogs it would be more important but at the moment she just needs to calm down.

Edited January 27, 2015 by Banjoman

[Guest Winnie2014]

I admit, it's a work in progress. Winnie definitely perks up/becomes more alert when she sees other dogs. We've gotten better about arcing around or turning to give the other dog more space with a "Let's go!" and treat. If we pass too close, sometimes she will move forward and tighten the leash, sometimes jump towards the dog, and other times growl (but not often), but I just keep walking and tell her to continue and I treat her after we pass and she listens to either her name or "Stay". When she is focused on the dog and staring, I can't get her attention until she settles back down and after we pass the dog if we're too close.

 

She's thankfully been great with other runners/bikers/kids on our trail. Sometimes she perks up, but I can get her to look at me with "Winnie!" before she decides she might want to jump on the person...which happens sometimes.

[Brandiandwe]

Can I just say that it has taken me three years of constant work to get Paige to where she can hold it together near other dogs. Three years. Of daily walks, sometimes twice or three times a day, with exposure to others, training classes, building a relationship. Three years. That's a lot of miles and hours to put into a dog. Now, admittedly, Paige is also high prey, a dominant bitch and very independent. She's quirky. But the reality is that this takes time. Not just a week, or a month. But a serious amount of time and energy. So I'd be settling in for the long haul.

[Guest Winnie2014]

We have our good days and bad days. I now know that if she is straining on the leash to get closer to the other dog, it's best for me to just turn her around and tell her let's go. Otherwise, that's when I get the barking/growling/straining to get to the other dog.

 

I may talk to our trainer again to see if he can assist in setting Winnie up for success. She's still just so focused on other dogs that I'm unclear of how to help her. We've met dogs on leash when we're on my apartments property - and she seems fine until she hyper focuses on them. I think she wants to play, but these interactions may have influenced the other on-leash interactions. She sniffs nicely, and then focuses on the other dog and at that time it's best we just leave.

[Brandiandwe]

Do you carry treats? Let her sniff nicely, then immediately call her attention to you, give her a treat and tell her she's fabulous, say 'Let's go!' Happily and head away. Reward the good behaviour. But make sure the treats are awesome, like roast chicken. Some in irresistible.

[Guest Winnie2014]

I always have treats on me now! Haha. I usually utilize the smelly treats, but I have a mix so she never knows what she is going to get. Freeze dried chicken, freeze dried cheese (so much easier to use...doesn't shred), and some Blue training treats that I split in half.

 

We have been doing really well but there is a "problem" area on the trail so to speak that even turning around with a "Let's go!" "Winnie" "yes/click" and treat doesn't always work. I try to start calling her when we first see the dog and she perks up and if she continues to respond to her name and the treat we will keep walking. This usually requires more distance but we've gotten successful at keeping her attention to me and not becoming overexcited/unresponsive. The problem area is a narrow area and if she strains against the leash, she is sure to bark/growl/react. If she doesn't respond to her name is when I will turn, tell her "Let's go!" and go through that process.

 

Dogs off leash are still an issue. Took her to a dog park early enough yesterday for her to roam around alone but left after another owner brought their large dog into the small dog area on the other end of the fence because "he wasn't friendly". Well Winnie and the dog growled/barked/snarled at each other chasing them on the fence so I just leashed her and left. Not a behavior I want to see by any means. She was overstimulated and wouldn't relax until 10-20 minutes after we arrived at my parent's house. And the other owner was okay with it.

 

When Winnie is hyper focused on something - dogs, squirrels, stray cats...no use in trying to get her attention. Best to just go with "Let's go!" and lead her away from it.

[Brandiandwe]

Yeah. Fixation is too late to be doing anything. With Paige she used to froth at the mouth, tremble and make this very frightening high pitched noise which makes the hairs stand up on the back of my neck. In that state she was a danger as she would have killed whatever it was she was fixated on which could have been up to 500 metres away.

 

I used to nudge her shoulder, pushing her sideways with my knee as soon as I saw it starting, swing her round in a tight circle and keep her moving, and just be happy. This generally pushed her either back to me mentally or, if I didn't do it fast enough or she had already fixed, used to push her into an explosion of frustration. She'd also explode if she fixated too long but couldn't go anywhere - if she moved, found herself restrained. So then I had a whirling, snarling, barking bundle on the leash. Then all I could do is move her away, staying calm. After the initial explosion, she would be barking, which is when a treat would be dropped into her mouth.

 

I'd also begin wedging treats if she fixed and was licking her lips I'd just had her mouth open slightly. It used to be that they'd just get dropped, but gradually she started to chew on the treats while fixating (jerky worked well for this), and her reactions became less intense. I could move her away. I don't know but I suspect the chewing and the food released (endorphins? Calming hormones?) something which slowed her escalation. After years, she got to the point where she would react by barking then looking to me for a treat. Now she just looks at me for her reward. Msometimes she prances to the end of the leash, bounces about, barks once then returns to me - I don't know who's in charge in those instances!

 

So, I know it can be done, but I also know it isn't a quick fix.

[Guest Winnie2014]

Just curious as it looks like you have other grey's - did walking with other dogs help Paige?

 

Winnie is a lot calmer on walks when someone else joins us in the afternoon (looking for all the pets and treats!), so I would think having a second dog walk with her might be useful. If only my friends had dogs!

 

A lot of this is just due to socialization with other dogs that aren't Greyhounds for Winnie. Small dogs still might equal crazy fixation, but we sometimes greet them nicely (sniffing!) around my apartment complex. The minute Winnie fixates, I turn her with our "Let's go!" routine and it seems to help. She seems to want to play with other dogs - but she fixates or gets too rough with them. At daycare, she didn't like any dog getting in her face and mainly stuck to hanging around the caretakers.

[Brandiandwe]

For a loooong time, Paige was my top dog. She taught Brandi how to be reactive. Joy. Paige has settled a lot since she's grown up, but also since we got Hermon. He's definitely a nice calm leader where Paige is more high energy. When he arrived, he took charge and I think that helped Paige relax, but that's only been in the last 12 months. I had two years of coping with PK before him.

 

Another dog might help assuming that yours will take cues from it. Paige didn't till she met Hermon.

[Guest Winnie2014]

Very interesting, thanks!

 

I think Winnie is going to be my only dog (at least for now while I live in my apartment). She's such a people pleaser when people come over/when I take her out and just loves to be in the same room as me (but not always).

 

She gets excited, but she's rather low energy when we're inside and it's just us. She definitely much rather have been napping the day she was at Daycare. Every day is a gift with her and she always manages to put a smile on my face. I think the reactivity is more excitement than aggression, same goes for the dog we met off leash. As long as we get some socialization from other dogs during the week (sniffing on leash), she'll continue to do well.

[Guest Winnie2014]

Well I feel like we take two steps forward, one step back.

 

I'm sure this is 100% me, but when I try and turn her sometimes she just statues and stares at the other dog as it passes. I try and arc her, but once again, Winnie stops, stares and then reacts (lunges, growls, barks, etc.) I'm sure she has picked up on my body language but she always listens before and immediately after she does this. Majority of time in this one area of the trail that I wish we could avoid.

 

It usually goes like this:

"Winnie!" she looks at me, "Yes!" treat, "Let's go!" and we keep going with "Easy" and "Relax" to get her to calm down. Sometimes we "stay" as well.

 

I've gotten her to the point that when we pass people who are exciting, she will look at them and then at me, so we're going forward with that if she reacts to people at all.

 

Am I doing the right thing? Or am I going crazy with all of this?

[Guest Amber]

This is a really common problem, the freezing and zoning in. I remember my boy Oscar could be just like that too, he was so focused that he just couldn't listen to me.

 

As this tends to happen most in the narrow area of the trail, it's most likely the lack of space and being too close to the trigger that makes it hard for her to respond.

 

it's only human to get a little tense in these situations too. If it's possible, you might try blocking her by standing in front of her, either facing her or facing out, in these tight corners where there is little room. Try to keep her behind you and then heap praise and treats if she stays there without reacting.

 

Everyone has their own way though and many people like to keep the dog moving, but for those situations where she statues and won't move off, having her hide behind you can be really useful. As with all these techniques, a lot of it is in the execution and the relationship between dog and handler.

 

but i think youare doing great, and often it is one step forward, two steps back with this type of problem. Or any type of problem!

[Brandiandwe]

The other thing to think about is what type of treat you are giving. I like jerky because Paige couldn't (or didn't) just chew and swallow. She actually has to chew it a good few times before she can swallow which makes her mouth full for longer so she doesn't react. Can you get her another treat as she starts to statue? This rewards her for 'not' reacting. So it looks like:

 

'Winnie' (looks at you). Treat.

She statues.

"Winnie' (looks at you). Treat. Back to dog while chewing.

Let's go!

 

Or if she doesn't look back at you, wedge a treat into her mouth at the side where there is a little gap in the teeth.

[Guest Winnie2014]

I can try and block her if she freezes, but she usually wiggles out in front of me to stare at the dog. I wish I could avoid the trigger area, but it's about where we turn around to go back home on our walks.

 

She got excited about just about everything passing this morning, can never tell if she's going to be tail-wagging, "I'm gonna go say hi!" jump to other people/dogs, or her growling phase. Even with people, I have to keep her attention with "Winnie!" if she looks too interested and treat/praise her once we've past the person so she doesn't try jumping towards them to say hi.

 

Far enough away, and she might not even notice the dog. Or the dog runs past with it's owner rather quickly, and while she strains on the leash to get to the dog, I'm constantly working through, "Winnie!" look, and "Stay" to get her to stop and look at me, which helps. Also using our "Easy" with a slight tug on the leash when she starts pulling/gets too far ahead of me.

 

I'm going to talk to our dog trainer again to see if he can work with Winnie and I to see if there is anything else I can be doing. In the meantime, we're going to a Grey meet and greet on Saturday and I'll ask some of the people there about obedience classes.

[Fruitycake]

I can try and block her if she freezes, but she usually wiggles out in front of me to stare at the dog. I wish I could avoid the trigger area, but it's about where we turn around to go back home on our walks.

 

It sounds as if you could avoid this area (and it might be a stressful area for her since she has been stressed there often enough - so she's always getting keyed up when approaching that spot) by turning around early and avoiding that spot by not going that far. If it means that you go home and then continue a little bit further (do two shorter trips as one walk), it would be one way to avoid the spot where she may be learning to associate that scene with getting stressed. My Allie is dog reactive, and there is an area where she always goes on alert because she has been barked at by another dog there a few times - even when there is no dog there to bark at her she just has learned to expect it. So I try to avoid that area, so she cannot be reinforced in her expectations of "dog going to bark at me here" because sometimes it does and sometimes it doesn't happen. Unfortunately it means that I either have to walk around an extra huge block, or go back the opposite direction (which means that Monty is on the wrong side of the sidewalk to pee), so I try to avoid a direction that might put us there if the weather is particularly cold or yucky and I might want to take that short cut. My husband will walk her there, and so she is still learning that there is a possibility of being barked at there, and she will try to go that direction with her entire being "on alert" and tail up and ears forward and little huffs and chuffs coming from her until I tell her we're going a different direction and come on. Then she will tone everything down because the different route doesn't have that "evil barker" to get her goat.

[Guest Winnie2014]

It's a possibility - but it's just a shame because if I shorten it there, we have about a 20 minute walk vs 30-35 minutes. She loves to smell past the trigger area and seems to do alright once the trail widens again there. The trail does go the other way, but that is also underneath some freeways that I do not feel comfortable walking under at night or by myself.

 

I'll see how she does this afternoon, but she walks a lot of the time with her ears up and alert and tail wagging sometimes when she sees people/dogs. Also because I'm consistently working with her to turn, stay, respond to her name, etc throughout the walk to keep her engaged and interested. The past few mornings we've been walking in the dark with no lights - and they're usually lit so she was a bit more aware this morning and reactive to people passing us. Tail wagging, prancy walk, etc.

 

Edit: We're going to continue to work on this, but I've set up a refresher with our dog trainer next month to hopefully help solve some of this reactivity to other dogs. Peace of mind for me to set this up.

 

It's just funny though - at the beginning Winnie did not react at all to other dogs. She would just whine, put her head down, and then pee right after they passed. Greyhounds change as they spend more time in a home for sure. And while I'm sure some of this was sparked by my behavior, I'm not 100% sure that she wouldn't have started reacting to other dogs anyway as time passed.

Edited February 5, 2015 by Winnie2014

[Guest Amber]

Well i think you're right about that. whining and peeing Aren't exactly the behaviour of a super confident dog. It's all so strange to them at first, plus we don't know exactly what their interactions with other dogs have been like thus far when we take them home. Mostly though, we know that they've not been trained as pets and largely left to their own devices playing (rough ) with their litter mates and then kennel mates at turn out. And then being competitive on the track.

 

I don't think that your handling is the cause honestly, you come across as a very calm and cheerful person who is putting a lot of effort into this dog. Some greys are just more exciteable than others.

 

If you could get her into a good, small obedience class and maybe then go onto agility or flyball, thatwould give you both something else to focus on.