Is Acepromazine Safe For Greys?

[Guest FordRacingRon]

Short version,,,yes or no.

 

 

Longer version, my dog is showing signs of canine cognitive disorder. Working with the vet we are trying supplements and diet change before putting her on anipryl because my thoughts are once you go that way you cannot turn back and I do not feel she is ready for that yet (yes we have had blood test to rule out anything like that and she is in no obious pain, she still wlaks a mile a day and she is 11). The changes are working for now for the most part, but once in a while she needs something to just calm her down. I think this ACE may be a bit too strong for her and I am wondering if it is even safe.

 

Vet has her for 2 a day on the bottle but on the written instructions it is as needed. I gave her 1/2 because she had a really rough night and I wanted her to relax a bit but she is way too relaxed for my liking.

 

My other though was maybe something we humans take could work for her to take the edge off when needed,,,like a xanax or valium or something.

[PatricksMom]

I would not use it for that purpose--it can mask their anxiety, so they're feeling anxious but can't express it. Xanax, Valium, that whole class of drugs is a possibility that I would discuss with your vet instead. Leo takes Ativan (not my top choice, but the vet was being stubborn), I would have gone with something with a longer half life.

[Guest FordRacingRon]

I would not use it for that purpose--it can mask their anxiety, so they're feeling anxious but can't express it. Xanax, Valium, that whole class of drugs is a possibility that I would discuss with your vet instead. Leo takes Ativan (not my top choice, but the vet was being stubborn), I would have gone with something with a longer half life.

I have already decided she has taken her last dose of ACE. i have to see the vet Fri,,I am making a change.

[DesiRayMom]

How about Composure by VetriScience? It's an herbal supplement and I know more than a few people who have tried it with good resultsl

[macoduck]

Ask your vet about Trazodone. Mazy needs it occasionally. She gets 1/2 of a 100mg pill and it lasts 4 hours. A larger dose does not last any longer, just stronger. It helped to relax her and she did not act stoned while on it.

 

It is available through most pharmacies if your vet doesn't carry it.

[KF_in_Georgia]

I think this is the article you want to print and take to your vet: http://fearfuldogs.com/acepromazine/

 

Here's the most relevant paragraph:

 

Research has shown these drugs function primarily as chemical restraints without affecting the animal’s emotional behavior. While under the effect of Ace, the animal still has a very strong fear, anxiety, avoidance or arousal response, but it does not physically display these reactions and is less able to react. The dog or cat appears calm and relaxed but mentally is lucid and still having an intense emotional reaction to its surroundings. Ace is a dissociative agent and prevents the patient from understanding his environment in a logical manner. So, the actual fear level of the animal is increased. Compounding the situation, the animal is being restrained and it makes a negative association with the entire experience.

 

 

Dogs taking ace experience increased reactivity to noise. They often have an inability to regulate their body temperature successfully. Neither of these things are what you want for a geriatric dog.

 

The article offers safer alternatives to ace.

[Guest FordRacingRon]

How about Composure by VetriScience? It's an herbal supplement and I know more than a few people who have tried it with good resultsl

She is taking one called Neutricks along with Hill's Prescription Diet B/D. I was very amazed at how it kept away the night thing and the sundowner effects and thought we were set for a while.

 

But last night she just went off the rails and I wanted something stronger for nights like last night . Her last, as I call them spells, was over 2 weeks ago and lasted about an hour which we can ride out. But last night was like the final straw that took us to the vet a month ago. So I just want something to take the edge off. She was pretty agitated most of the morning after her walk which is why I went to the vet to pick up the ACE. I gave her half of the dosage and she has been asleep for 3 hours,,not what I had in mind. She only really eats one meal a day now and I am afraid she won't even wake up for dinner today.

I think this is the article you want to print and take to your vet: http://fearfuldogs.com/acepromazine/

 

Here's the most relevant paragraph:

 

 

Dogs taking ace experience increased reactivity to noise. They often have an inability to regulate their body temperature successfully. Neither of these things are what you want for a geriatric dog.

 

The article offers safer alternatives to ace.

I saw this too after I gave her the dosage. Thing is, she is out now,,sound a freakin sleep. But, she didn't sleep last night at all so this ACE made her relaxed enough to pass out,,but she is too out of it now. If there were an emergency (like an earthquake) I would have to carry her, she wouldn't probably get up.

[juliemac]

I have alprazolam (which I understand is doggie zanax) for Riley for loud noises (fireworks freak him out). Note that my vet describes it as 'sugar pills' if I don't give it to him BEFORE the event, but it does seem to work for him in low dosages if I administer early. And he does seem to relax without crashing out (and doesn't have his normal post-trauma crashout either).

 

Good luck!

[Guest grey_dreams]

A lot of animals can take Xanax, but a lot of animals have real problems with Xanax - it actually causes them to become more anxious, agitated, and aggressive. I would not choose Xanax as a first choice. There are other types of benzodiazepines, such as Klonipin and Valium, which don't have the adverse effects like Xanax.

 

You might try giving Zylkene, which works miracles for my crew. It's a small protein isolated from milk, so it's very safe and well-tolerated. One of our vets in Amsterdam used to take it herself when she had a very stressful day

[greysmom]

I second the suggestion of trazadone. Unlike xanax, it will actually have an effect if it is given *after* a spell starts. It has a shorter time to take effect, as well, and seems safer overall to me than xanax. But it is a very new drug for canine use, and an off label use of human pills. Many vets don't know a lot, if anything, about it.

 

If you want to get technical, it is a SARI (serotonin agonist re-uptake inhibitor) versus a SSRI (selective serotonin re-uptake inhibitor) like prozac or paxil. So sort of in the same class, but not. Xanax is a benzodiazepine, as are Ativan and Valium.

 

FYI, "alprazolam" is the generic version of xanax. Unlike many other drugs, I haven't experienced a big difference in the drug from generic to name brand.

[Guest FordRacingRon]

Well she is up and groggy,,this is not what I had in mind. I know what Alzhiemers is like,,it took my mother,,,so I know what to expect down the road as I don't think this is too different. My wife and I are thinking that maybe we should jump the shark and start Anypril. I guess I wonder if it would hurt if we started her on that drug.

[Guest FordRacingRon]

I second the suggestion of trazadone. Unlike xanax, it will actually have an effect if it is given *after* a spell starts. It has a shorter time to take effect, as well, and seems safer overall to me than xanax. But it is a very new drug for canine use, and an off label use of human pills. Many vets don't know a lot, if anything, about it.

 

If you want to get technical, it is a SARI (serotonin agonist re-uptake inhibitor) versus a SSRI (selective serotonin re-uptake inhibitor) like prozac or paxil. So sort of in the same class, but not. Xanax is a benzodiazepine, as are Ativan and Valium.

 

FYI, "alprazolam" is the generic version of xanax. Unlike many other drugs, I haven't experienced a big difference in the drug from generic to name brand.

My wife has a prescription for Trazadone , used to put her to sleep. Same drug I would assume. How much does a dog get?

[macoduck]

From my post above
Mazy gets 1/2 of a 100mg pill and it lasts 4 hours.

[Guest FordRacingRon]

From my post above

Mazy gets 1/2 of a 100mg pill and it lasts 4 hours.

Thank you, and , Mazy's ears are greyt.

[greysmom]

I have not noticed any sedative effect with Cash, though others have with their dogs.

 

The effects of the Ace can last for a while. I wouldn't make any decisions about her behavior until at least tomorrow.

[dante2zoe]

Ask your vet about Cholodin. It's an enzyme, I believe, and is used in conjunction with the Anipryl. I only used that with my whippet (I gave it to him daily) and it helped take the edge off with his sundowning. I also had timers for lights in the house so it never got dark until I was home with him.

 

It is so hard to watch them age.

 

Scritches to your sweetie.

[Guest FordRacingRon]

I have not noticed any sedative effect with Cash, though others have with their dogs.

 

The effects of the Ace can last for a while. I wouldn't make any decisions about her behavior until at least tomorrow.

She snapped out of the ACE coma like it never happened. I honestly thought I had overdosed her and I gave her half of what the vet told me to give her.

 

Last night she got antsy about 9pm, I gave her a little less then half of an ACE and she calmed right down and had a normal nights sleep (thank you doG). She was a little antsy this afternoon so I gave her about 1/3 of a pill and it really took the edge off for her again, she is doing a normal dog nap now.

 

I a seeing the vet again tomorrow and and am taking a list of the meds you all suggested but I am leaning toward the trazadone.

 

My SIL called last night and wanted to know if we were going to send Leia to the bridge this week. Geez,,she is far away from that, this is just starting. We still have a ways to go. She is far from losing her facilities. That hit me like a ton of bricks. Then I wanted to hit her with a ton of bricks.

[greyhead]

How are the various aspects of her functioning? For instance, has her appetite changed? Does she wander and look over her shoulder? Is she enthused about leaving for walks? What are the behavioral changes?

[Guest FordRacingRon]

How are the various aspects of her functioning? For instance, has her appetite changed? Does she wander and look over her shoulder? Is she enthused about leaving for walks? What are the behavioral changes?

Well in the morning she is the dog we always knew. We go for our walk, no problem. Then she naps while she waits for me to run an errand. Then up to 2 days ago, after the errand she naps unless it is cool, then in the middle of the nap, another walk.

 

What happens at night ranges. The mildest thing is she stand around huffing and puffing and acting as though she just isn't happy in her skin. This almost always starts after she eats. But lately getting her to eat is an adventure. Anyway that would last about 1 to 3 hours, then she settles and does whatever she normally does.

 

But this is what happened about 3 weeks ago which prompted the vet. She starts shaking really badly like she is most terrified. Her entire body shakes from head to toe Again happens just at night. She wants to go outside when this is happening. after a couple of hours it is done and she come back in. But it happened two days in a row and that is when we went to the vet. That was perhaps her 4th episode like that in 6 months.

 

Now what is different is, two nights ago she had one of these shaking episodes at 1130pm and she was up and antsy until about 330am. The shaking part stopped in about 20 minutes, the rest of the time was huffing and puffing. Longest ever.

 

I read in a book by Huffs Veterinary college about if you dog has dementia and you try meds try a pain pill first to see if pain is the actual culprit before you go to anipryl. We tried, no change. Then I thought about something to take the edge off (also recommended if you don't wan to go the anipryl route yet) so that brings us to where we are now.

 

I give her half a dose of the ACE and she sleeps like a baby Now I could see giving her this if we had to be away for like 5 or so hours, but I want something a little lighter for when we are here,,which is 90% of the time.

 

I also need to know,,when is it really time for anipryl. BTW...today, kind of antsy, gave her a half dose which wore off by 5. she sat outside for 2 hours, came in and ate like a champ and is now napping. she puffed for about 20 minuted after dinner and that was it.

[greyhead]

The reason I asked, Ron & Ann, is that we just went through something similar with Shane, and it turned out to be remedied by Gas-X! I got the idea from another recent H&M thread called Peculiar Behavior Unusual Behavior and the posts/video by Neyla'sMom. Seriously, we went through tranquilizers, pain meds (which he needs for musculoskeletal stuff, so we have them on hand), etc. He was also eating less and less. It was weird, but the gas wasn't perceptible to us, leading some to suspect a blockage. His vets recommended another abdominal ultrasound, when I told them of the GT thread I just mentioned and whatnot. But he just had one in January, so I thought we'd try the Gas-X first. And, yes, the symptoms were mostly at night, certainly worst at night.

 

It was so bad, we had to take turns sleeping on the couch, to give him Benedryl when the panting, shaking, standing, restlessness became too much. He has been susceptible to heat stress for the last year, any time he's unsettled, so we can't let that kind of thing persist. But before a week was out, it got to where even the Benedryl wasn't working!

 

So I'm not saying that's what's going on with your dog, of course. But we were astounded at the immediate, drastic improvement, so it's something you might consider. And I have to repeat, it looked a lot like dementia to me. Good luck!

 

ETA: Shane was doing the comatose thing too, during the day. We concluded in the end that that was due to no sleep at night, perhaps exacerbated by his meds.

Edited May 10, 2014 by greyhead

[Guest FordRacingRon]

I may have figured out the right combo for now. When she goes to bed at 1030pm I give her less then half a prescribed dosage of the ACE. She sleeps through the night. It has worn off by the time I wake up. We have our normal morning with walks and errands etc. Around noonish she will get anxious and start her panting routine. 25 mg of Trazadone takes the edge of just enough. We have our afternoon walk, nap, dinner, more nap. Then around 9pm she starts up again (pacing and panting) but it is only a bit before her next ACE pills so she relaxes and goes to bed.

 

Went to vet yesterday to have full blood done again. Had to order the Anipryl from him,,,goign for the lowest possible dosage. Now my only concern is drug interaction.

[Guest FordRacingRon]

Ask your vet about Cholodin. It's an enzyme, I believe, and is used in conjunction with the Anipryl. I only used that with my whippet (I gave it to him daily) and it helped take the edge off with his sundowning. I also had timers for lights in the house so it never got dark until I was home with him.

 

It is so hard to watch them age.

 

Scritches to your sweetie.

Here is where my mind is standing now and I need a little input.

 

Currently Leia gets about 25 mg of TRazadone around noon and that takes care of her most of the day. At bed time I give her 12 mg of ACE to sleep through the night. Occasionally (one out of 3 days) I give her an extra 12 mg of Trazadone around 5 to stave off a sundowner spell. This combo works great.

 

What I am toying with:

 

1. COntinue the above

 

2. Going to Anipryl with a small amount of Traz if she needs it or ACE to sleep. But as I understand, Traz and Anipryl are not compatible,,but the vet said Leia gets such a small amount of Traz it won't matter. Also I understand ACE is not recommended for sighthounds but again she gets a tiny dose.

 

3. Go to just Anipryl with Cholodin

 

Seems like number one would be the best choice for now.

[greysmom]

Unless there are extenuating circumstances, I'm of the opinion that giving the least amount of medication is best. But also, if something is working, just go with it. Does she have break out periods on the current regimen that would be fixed by switching? What, if anything, will change if you switch to the anipryl combo now?

[Guest FordRacingRon]

Unless there are extenuating circumstances, I'm of the opinion that giving the least amount of medication is best. But also, if something is working, just go with it. Does she have break out periods on the current regimen that would be fixed by switching? What, if anything, will change if you switch to the anipryl combo now

Right now she is the closest to the Leia we know. So we are basically giving her and anti-depressant (Traz) which makes her our Leia, and a tranq (ACE) to put her to sleep. The best description is, when she has a "spell" she seems so uncomfortable in her skin. Once about every 3 days has has,,my DW calls them seizures,,when she shakes uncontrollably. In either case, a Trazadone works. ANd only the 12 mg to control the shakes. And FYI she take like 1/5 the dosage a dog her size can take. She takes no more then 40 mg a day,,usually on 25 and and extra 15 if she goes into a shake. And the ACE let's her sleep all night but I give her only about 10 mg of that.

 

So if I switch her I know I have to stop the Traz as a drug interaction problem could occur and I do not know what the Anipryl will do. I read all the brochures and it seems that in some drugs it peps them up and she does not need that. It also highly recommends not o use it with an antidepressant. I do know it is not a tranq.

 

So really taking her off what I do know and put her on something that could actually repair problems, not mask them. But perhaps pep her up (I would be afraid to use the ACE if she were on the Anipryl).

 

Also, one other thing, in the evening,,like right now,,she prefers to sit outside in the same one or two spot for up to 3 hours sometimes. She is calm when outside in her spots.