Bonding With A New Pup

[Samwise]

Yay, first post!

 

So my SO and I brought home our "foster with intent to flunk" first greyhound, Sam, three weeks ago. There have been all the ups and downs you expect bringing home a grey, but we're doing what we can to make the adjustment easy for him.

 

To all you lovely and experienced greyhound people: what are your recommendations for bonding with him during this adjustment period?

[macoduck]

Don't rush anything, but don't let Sam start any poor behaviors. Try handfeeding the kibble. Don't rush him into many new situations. After 3 weeks you should already be getting an idea whether or not he is relaxing.

 

This is still the honeymoon period. He may begin testing his bounds in a couple of months.

 

Otherwise relax and enjoy!

[greysmom]

Hand feeding his meals is a way to jump start the process. Lots of leash walking will also help things along. If he's shy, or having a more difficult time adjusting, just sitting close to him where he feels comfortable, on the floor, reading a book or magazine or some other quiet activity can be good for him. Ocassionally give him attention if he's open to that, and have some nice yummy treats to give every once in a while. Even if he's doing well, this can be a good thing.

 

If he's more outgoing and playful, do yard sessions with a toy, or toss a treat ball for him. In the house, do more low key play with a stuffy, or play "hide the treat" for him.

 

In general, just about any activity you do with him can be a bonding experience, depending on how relaxed he is. It just takes time and patience. The dog you have now will not be the dog you have in several months.

[Brandiandwe]

As above. And they're all different. Brandi, our first, took a while to settle - she wasn't truly happy till we got Paige, especially walking outside. But she bonded to me almost too quickly and had SA. Having said that, she has chilled out a bit but still can't contain herself when she sees me after I've been away for an unreasonably long period of time (read out of sight for longer than 15 minutes). Paige took weeks to bond with me - three weeks was the point that I felt her give her trust to me. Before that, she was ghosting around the house, completely shut down, or off the chain on walks with prey drive. It took her months to begin warming up to DH, and years till she began treating him the same way as she does me. She only nits on me though. Hermon walked into our house and onto the sofa like he's always been here and has never looked back. He bonded very quickly to DH and remains his dog.

 

Obedience training helped with Paige, but not with Brandi at least initially. Cuddles and affection worked with Boo. Hermon just needed a week or so to learn the routine and he was set.

[sobesmom]

Time. Patience. Keep it simple. Just focus on the basics right now - potty - good behavior - correct what needs to be corrected and praise when anything right is done.. IMHO - greys "bond" with someone they trust - and who gives them a stable environment that they can understand. Even if the dog isn't overly affectionate - doesn't mean it isn't bonding. They best bonding you can do right now - is to get that dog comfortable in your home. Sam will bond with you for that. Affection may come later.

 

Just because a dog isn't trying to sit on your lap doesn't mean it isn't bonding. Stability and trust first.

 

BTW - CONGRATS and welcome to GT. Ask LOTS of questions!

Edited February 17, 2014 by sobesmom

[Sambuca]

Walks together are good. Eventually going to obedience classes will be great, but I'd wait a month or more depending on the dog. Stick with positive reinforcement training/clicker training. If you do some research you can even start doing some simple stuff at home.

[Samwise]

For some further details: Sam is 3, raced until October 2013. He was then adopted by a family, but bounced for slightly foggy reasons (they say they just didn't like fe responsibility of having a dog, adoption ppl saw that they had a young child with bad dog manners) but nothing too serious happened. He then was fostered for 2-3 weeks, then came to us!

 

In terms of most behaviours, he's a dream: almost 100% good with his business in the house, sleeps through the night, no howling, no separation anxiety, walks like a dream on lead, excellent recall, no real issues with stairs, loves other dogs, is friendly and curious with other people, learns quickly, very patient with teeth brushing, nail trimming, wound cleaning, taking his leash, coat, boots and collar on and off. His gas isn't even that bad!

 

The only real issues are mild space aggression and a lack of affection. He growled and snapped at me on day two when we brought him home, broke skin but it wasn't a bite, when I got into his space when he was on his bed. He's also growled at the SO when the latter tried petting him on his bed (the SO thought he knew better than me!) and we've made sure to give him LOTS of space when he's on his bed-- lesson learnt!! The thing is, he also growled at me this past week when I placed a hand on his shoulder when I was sitting on the ground (he was standing, knew where I was, and had approached me). He also growled when I leaned over him when he was lying on the couch (he lost couch privileges for the rest of the day and most of the next). The space aggression just seems very inconsistent: he'll growl in a situation where he could have chattered the day before, and then go back to being happy with it if someone does the same thing the next day. It's nothing we haven't been told to expect from greyhounds during the adjustment period, but it's anxiety-inducing not to know if what we're doing is pleasant or stressful for the dog. For the record, his growls in these situations are very similar to those he gives my parents' dog when she's playing too enthusiastically or getting into his space (between the two of them, Sam is dominant and she's submissive).

 

He's also not very affectionate, but we're trying to be realistic about our expectations for the next few months as he adjusts, and know that three weeks is nowhere near enough time for his personality to come through. We let him come to is for lovin' (which he does rarely), walk him twice a day for 30-60 minutes each time, try to keep to a schedule, and have started NILIF with the only command he knows, "wait" (he's also good with his recalls). We've begun to hand-feed him as well, asking for a "wait" before each handful.

 

My concern is that we've just a got a not-very-affectionate grey who would prefer to snooze off on his own than next to me on the couch. Given how perfectly behaved he is in so many other capacities, I know for sure that he would make a family, person, or couple very, very happy. But both I and the SO hope to have a close and affectionate relationship with whatever dog we adopt. This is especially true for me, as I have disabilities which sometimes affect my human relationships, and I had been hoping for a relationship with that pure love I've known dogs can give (in before someone says it; I don't expect at relationship to happen immediately! I just hope it comes with time). As we are not in a position to adopt multiple dogs, we also know that if we formally adopt Sam, he's our dog, our one n only, for the next ten years or more. I'm just worried he'd miss out on "his" family, and we'd miss out on "our" grey, if he's not right for us and we keep him.

 

We've spoken to the adoption group and extended our foster period by a month to try to get a better feel for Sam, and for how he fits into our little family. He's the first grey and first dog for SO and I as a couple, though we've both had other dogs (two mutts and a beagle that ever lived) before we met. We are both 100% ready to give him or patience, time, effort, and love to help him become as comfortable and as happy as possible, but I'm worried about doing him and us both a disservice if we stick with something that's not right. I've had dogs that started off cool and warmed into love bugs, and dogs that lived 14 years as grumpy people-haters with whom I never managed to develop a real connection. I'm just not sure how to tell/how to make that call with this pup.

 

What do you think? You've all got more experience with this than I do!

 

Two kinds of questions:

 

how can I predict what will trigger his space aggression? How should I react when he growls in a way that tells him it's wrong but isn't too punitive? Right now, we just ignore him for a period and don't give him the reward of our attention, but since he growls to get us away it doesn't seem effective.

 

Can I expect a dog who is quite reserved to grow into a more affectionate dog over time, or should I allow him to find a better fitting family and try to find the Grey that fits us better? If I can expect him to become more affectionate with time, my original question applies: how can I make him more comfortable, quicker? How can I develop our bond?

 

Neither SO not I want to "give up" on Sam, but we don't want our stubbornness to end up hurting him or us. Ultimately, we want what's best for this amazing dog!

*waits anxiously for responses*

 

I'm worried that folks will read that and think I'm an unrealistic, idealistic, dog doggie mama. I promise, I'm trying to be realistic and just want to do right by the dog.

*waits anxiously for responses*

 

I'm worried that folks will read that and think I'm an unrealistic, idealistic, dog doggie mama. I promise, I'm trying to be realistic and just want to do right by the dog.

[Sambuca]

It takes time and there's no way to know for sure. It can take up to a year or more to come out of their shell completely. Has he had a physical to make sure there's nothing causing him discomfort while being pet causing the growl? The space issues can be worse depending on how tired the dog is, how anxious, how hungry. Just like we have moods, they have moods. Please don't correct the growling, I'll add a link in a bit to explain why much better than I can.

I really think some positive reinforcement training will help you, plus having a trainer to help is a good thing.

http://wildewmn.wordpress.com/2013/10/22/why-growling-is-good/

[Samwise]

Thanks for the article! Makes a lot of sense.

[greysmom]

In reality, you can't know. Because it just takes time. And yes, sometimes it never happens. But this is true of any dog you adopt, not just a greyhound. If you can't love the dog you have *right now* then let him be adopted by another family. Consider his time with you as a fostering experience for both of you.

 

And no. You can not *make* him more comfortable, or bond with him any faster than he is capable of. There are only things you can do to encourage him to trust you.

 

As far as his space aggression, it may be best, for the time being, to let dogs that are lieing down be. If you want to give him pets and attention, call him to you (or let him come to you). Growling is his only way of communicating to you that he is uncomfortable with something. If you take this away from him, he may escalate the situation to something firmer - as in a bite with no warning. Take his growling for what it is and don't take it personally. Just because you can't figure out what the trigger for it is, doesn't mean one doesn't exist - it's there for him, that's all that matters. Keep him off the couch and the people bed until you know he's trustworthy. Add in some really yummy treats if you do want to approach him when he is lieing down to help him associate something good with it.

[ChiliDog]

We've had 6 hounds over the years.

Ricochet and Logan were as aloof as aloof could be (Logan also had space aggression). Logan loved to be patted, but on his terms and we were OK with that.

Then we got Joe T Reporter who was the goofiest boy in the world, but he, too wanted loving oh HIS terms (not a space aggressive bone in his body but kind of doofey but with , in his words, "a ginormous hart".

Greta next and she was MY dog. She stuck to me like glue - I always had to be in her sight.

Buffy came next and she was hubby;'s "little Princess" - I was just "The Commandant" who made her do horrible things like eat and go out in -50 degree temperatures...

and finally Pepper who is also Daddy's boy

 

Affection is also in the eye of the beholder. Even Greta, who in my eyes was THE most affectionate of all our hounds would not be seen as affectionate by, say, people who own other breeds of dogs. Greta showed her affection by standing next to me, waiting to be petted, her big brown eyes looking up at me adoringly.

 

Don't get me wrong, some hounds will run and leap with glee at the sight of you, but with most of them once they see that it is you, home safe and sound, grab their cushions or sofas and take a nap from the exertion of all that running and leaping...

 

 

D.

[Brandiandwe]

Paige, my reserved girl, is the one who never shows too much affection openly (because it is undignified), but has gradually begun showing her silly side too. I will say that when I'm sick, she generally insists on sleeping on our bed, and doesn't let the other hounds too near me. When I was suffering from depression, she once lay beside me and let me hold her paw for nearly two hours without moving when I was curled into the fetal position, waiting for either the world to end or DH to get home from work to rescue me. Her language is subtle, as noted above. She asks for affection by standing politely beside me and if it isn't forthcoming, she walks away. She is always close to me, but rarely in my face. A shy or reserved grey takes time and patience, but is worth it. Learn to be still and watch him for little signs, and be open to them.

[greysmom]

I just wanted to add that greyhounds, for the most part, are not overly demonstrative dogs. They have been bred for hundreds of years to be independent - first as hunters, and then as racers. They enjoy the companionship of people, and are certainly more human-centric than many other breeds, but they don't show their affection and attachment like breeds which have been bred to work cooperatively with people. Dogs like labs or goldens, who are meant to hunt in the field with men on foot. Or border collies who work with shepherds to herd sheep. They are more likely to stand or lay across the room and watch you steadily with a loving gaze than run up and rub all over you. They ask for attention with a nose nudge under the hand, rather than a body slam. They lean against you while standing. They lay on the floor with their head across your feet. You might get 20 or 30 seconds of greeting before they go back to playing with a toy or laying down again.

 

My husband and I have had nine greyhounds (we currently have 5). The most affectionate one we have ever had still spends more time by herself than she does in our company. She is a greyhound we got as an 11 week old puppy, so there's no racing training or any other cause for this other than her natural inclination. She will snuggle with us in bed and ocassionally during the day in the living room. She likes to play with us sometimes, but she prefers to play with the other dogs. All of our greyhounds have been this way.

 

There are greyhounds who are more like labs. But you won't know if you have a greyhound like this until the one you have settles into home life, and learns to trust you, which can take anywhere from several months to a couple years.

[brianamac]

It sounds like you have a good handle on dogs and have received great responses.

You may never know--you could simply foster Sam and let him go to another family, and your next foster, or the one after, will be cuddly and affectionate. Or you could foster dog after dog and none of them will ever become the dog you are hoping for in the amount of time that fostering usually lasts for.

I think "your dog, your one and only" doesn't exist and/or can't be determined in a short period of time. A dog that you have the pure love and affection you desire will probably also have other issues that may be bigger--all dogs do, as you know. What if you get the cuddly, immediate bond dog who has severe SA, or is aggressive with other dogs, or terrified of strangers? IMO, a lack of affection if the easiest 'issue' to deal with, as that will grow. I know it's hard to believe after 3 weeks of feeding, training, and trying to love on Sam. But it WILL come, though it may be subtle.

You mentioned a disability that makes you want for a dog to have a special bond with. I understand where you are coming from, I needed that too. My first Grey will always be a 'people hater' as you say... however, he has healed and helped me much more than my cuddly guy. Cuddles and attention from the people hater, when they happen, mean so much.

At the end of the day, if you look at the dog laying next to you on the couch and you don't feel a connection, you've answered your own question. He should go to another family.

I just need to say that I was ready to let Boo go to a family that was more 'suited' for him... we didn't... and 2 years later I think keeping him was the best decision we've ever made (and Boo had a LOT of issues that Sam doesn't seem to have).

Good luck and keep us posted.

[Samwise]

I asked him for a sign that we were right for each other... and he does this.

https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=10152227922381119&set=gm.730645056960176&type=1

He hadn't 'till that point spent much time on the couch, but now he won't get off!

Thank you all for your kind words.

[Brandiandwe]

That may have been a tactical error.......you do have another couch, right?

[ChiliDog]

That may have been a tactical error.......you do have another couch, right?

 

[Guest lunasmom]

That may have been a tactical error.......you do have another couch, right?

 

 

 

I have had Luna for almost 7 months now and she just recently has began initiating snuggle time. I keep getting to the point where I start to think she has fully settled in and then things like that happen. Like others have said, it takes time. Good luck with your new boy

[Guest RMarie]

As far as bonding/snuggling, that will come in time...after he's learned to trust you. Our boy is quite independent, but he also shows us his softer side. It's been more than a year since we got him and he's still increasing his snugglyness with us. It's awesome. Enjoy the journey.

[Samwise]

Just wanted to follow up with this...

 

SO and I have decided to sign Sam's papers and officially flunk this foster

 

I figure it's important for me to focus on the good qualities in my boy, and focus on the dog I have instead of the perfect dream dog that exists only in my head. Even if he doesn't change (though I'm sure he will) I can still take time to appreciate all the reasons he's wonderful, just the way he is.

 

Here is my one-month-in list of the reasons why Sam is wonderful:

• He follows me from room to room and always checks in to see where I am
• He's 99% clean in the house (and the two accidents have been my fault for forgetting to let him out!)
• He gives plenty of warning when he's stressed or upset
• He is smart as hell, and has already learnt "wait" and "come". "Up", "off", and "look at me" are well on their way! I can even interrupt him eating or chewing on a high-value treat if I tell him "wait"
• He is extremely soft. I didn't realize just how soft until I pet other greyhounds at a meet and greet, but he is silky-soft even for a grey
• Possibly related to the above, but he is VERY tolerant of cold weather. A must for us here in the greyt white north!
• He is VERY patient with being handled, everything from my fumbling attempts to put his boots on to my disinfecting an ouchie to tooth-brushing!
• He is friendly and curious to all strangers & dogs, but not obnoxiously in-their-face
• He gets along beautifully with my parents' dog, who is a handful but is an important part of our life
• We climbed five (5!!!) flights of stairs on Tuesday when a friend's elevator wasn't working properly.
• He's a brave boy--not scared of much at all
• He doesn't have any sleep startle
• He played with a toy for the first time today! It was "hunt the stuffed squirrel as mamma makes it dance across the floor." He even threw it for himself to catch.
• He ROOS! I started howling today and he joined in beautifully. Here is our first duet (hope the video works...)
• His initial preference for the SO seems to have worn off, and he loves us equally (okay, maybe he prefers me a little bit, but that's because I feed him and we lick each others' mouths in a really gross display of affection)
• He will let me stroke his butt when we're both on the couch, and has even started getting his head in the way of my petting hand hoping for a stray pat or two...

Only a month in, and our relationship has grown so much. I don't know how much of it I would put down to him getting more comfortable, but I know that a BIG part of it has been adjusting my expectations and learning how to love and respect him for who he is ("Bones Would Rain From The Sky" by Suzanne Clothier has been a big part of that!)

 

I am lucky to have a handsome, clever cowdog in my life. Thank you all for your support

 

Can't wait to see what's coming up next in the adventure!

AH YES and here are some pictures of the handsome boy.

 

It makes me sad to think that he was posted as a "happy tail" when he was first adopted but eventually given up. I'm happy to know that he's found a home with us now

[Guest rarmstrong]

Just wanted to follow up with this...

 

SO and I have decided to sign Sam's papers and officially flunk this foster

 

I figure it's important for me to focus on the good qualities in my boy, and focus on the dog I have instead of the perfect dream dog that exists only in my head. Even if he doesn't change (though I'm sure he will) I can still take time to appreciate all the reasons he's wonderful, just the way he is.

 

Here is my one-month-in list of the reasons why Sam is wonderful:

• He follows me from room to room and always checks in to see where I am
• He's 99% clean in the house (and the two accidents have been my fault for forgetting to let him out!)
• He gives plenty of warning when he's stressed or upset
• He is smart as hell, and has already learnt "wait" and "come". "Up", "off", and "look at me" are well on their way! I can even interrupt him eating or chewing on a high-value treat if I tell him "wait"
• He is extremely soft. I didn't realize just how soft until I pet other greyhounds at a meet and greet, but he is silky-soft even for a grey
• Possibly related to the above, but he is VERY tolerant of cold weather. A must for us here in the greyt white north!
• He is VERY patient with being handled, everything from my fumbling attempts to put his boots on to my disinfecting an ouchie to tooth-brushing!
• He is friendly and curious to all strangers & dogs, but not obnoxiously in-their-face
• He gets along beautifully with my parents' dog, who is a handful but is an important part of our life
• We climbed five (5!!!) flights of stairs on Tuesday when a friend's elevator wasn't working properly.
• He's a brave boy--not scared of much at all
• He doesn't have any sleep startle
• He played with a toy for the first time today! It was "hunt the stuffed squirrel as mamma makes it dance across the floor." He even threw it for himself to catch.
• He ROOS! I started howling today and he joined in beautifully. Here is our first duet (hope the video works...)
• His initial preference for the SO seems to have worn off, and he loves us equally (okay, maybe he prefers me a little bit, but that's because I feed him and we lick each others' mouths in a really gross display of affection)
• He will let me stroke his butt when we're both on the couch, and has even started getting his head in the way of my petting hand hoping for a stray pat or two...

Only a month in, and our relationship has grown so much. I don't know how much of it I would put down to him getting more comfortable, but I know that a BIG part of it has been adjusting my expectations and learning how to love and respect him for who he is ("Bones Would Rain From The Sky" by Suzanne Clothier has been a big part of that!)

 

I am lucky to have a handsome, clever cowdog in my life. Thank you all for your support

 

Can't wait to see what's coming up next in the adventure!

AH YES and here are some pictures of the handsome boy.

 

It makes me sad to think that he was posted as a "happy tail" when he was first adopted but eventually given up. I'm happy to know that he's found a home with us now

 

The video of you and Sam rooing got Willis all kinds of confused btw haha

[Brandiandwe]

Love the update! He sounds pretty affectionate and bonded to me. Post again in six months about how you find other dogs obnoxious, and how truly perfect he is for you - something he knew all along but which took you a bit longer!

[Samwise]

As I write this, he has stuffed his (cold, wet) nose into the bottom of my foot as I sit on the couch cross-legged...

 

Also forgot to add: zero leash pulling. He (and I) always make sure to adjust our pace to each other so that there is some slash in the leash.

Edited February 28, 2014 by Samwise

[Guest lunasmom]

yay Sam!

 

Luna only perked her ears up at the video, she didnt even lift her head. Oh well, I guess I don't have a rooer.

[Guest june]

Congratulations to you and Sam!