Crating A Greyhound Overnight?

[Guest Greyt_dog_lover]

Ok, you have a few things going on here. As far as the crating issue goes, I wont address that but I do have a lot of experience with cats and greyhounds. I have been a cat tester for multiple groups as well as I foster greyhounds with my cats. You say you have been "correcting" your hound to help with the cats. While the correction method has is merits, in your situation, I would strongly suggest you use positive reinforcement FIRST, then correction if that doesn't work. Here is my method for the first few months I have new hounds in my house:

 

First week:

1) Muzzle does not come off the hound unless the cats are behind closed door, or hound is in crate, PERIOD.

2) Cats will be put behind closed doors for more than half of the day the hound is awake and I am home.

3) When the cats are around, the hound will have a leash attached (as well as muzzle, see above).

4) to work on desensitization, get some good small bites of food, such as cheese. Have significant other/friend help with the next few steps

5) One person has hound with muzzle and leash on one side of room, second person gets cat and walks into room holding cat. Person with cat sits on floor on opposite side of room and allows the hound to see the cat. Person holding hound calls his/her name, once the hound looks, give treat. REPEAT for 5-10 minutes. DO NOT allow cat to move or otherwise stir and make noise. If the cat gets upset, remove the cat, do not allow the cat to run or make noise as this may excite the hound.

6) do this multiple times during the day. After each session, the cat should be placed in a room, do not allow interaction.

 

Second week:

1) Muzzle does not come off the hound unless the cats are behind closed door, or hound is in crate, PERIOD.

2) Again, two people. One brings cat into room, one holds the hound with muzzle and leash. Person with cat should sit much closer to hound. The hound can be allowed to approach the cat and sniff. All the while the person holding the hound should call his/her name and treat when the hound looks away from the cat. If the hound does not look away from the cat, the person holding the hound on the leash should move away from the cat and get the hounds attention, if needed show the treat to the hound to break the hounds' attention.

3) REPEAT for 5-10 minutes multiple times during the day.

4) After each session the cat should be placed in a room, do not allow interaction.

 

Third week:

1) Muzzle does not come off the hound unless the cats are behind closed door, or hound is in crate, PERIOD (see the trend?).

2) Again, two people. The hound still has muzzle and leash. By this time the hound should be nearly 100% reliable in looking away from the cat for a treat. If not, repeat second week until you have 100% reliability.

3) Second person brings cat into room, sets the cat down and allows the cat to move around the room. The person with the hound should be ready for the hound to try to move, do NOT allow the hound to follow or approach the cat when it is moving around. Instead call the hounds name and treat. If during this week the cat takes off or the hound starts to get anxious (barking, panting, drooling, excessive pulling) you need to go back a week.

4) If you can now distract the hound while the cat is moving around the room, good. Keep this training up for a week.

 

Fourth week:

1) Muzzle does not come off the hound unless the cats are behind closed door, or hound is in crate, PERIOD.

2) Two people, same drill (muzzle and leash).

3) Now you want to get the cat riled up when you have the cat and hound in the room together. If the cat is calm, then push the cat to run out of the room or otherwise get the kitty to make noise. Hold the leash and repeat treating when the hound looks at you. If you cannot get the hounds attention, go back a few weeks in the training.

4) Repeat daily.

 

Once you can have the cat in the room running around and making noise and be able to get the hound to look at you for treats, THEN you can allow the cat to have free run of the house. At this time, put up the baby gates at strategic places around the home (such as hallways and maybe doorways) about 6" above the ground. This will allow for the cats to move freely, but the hound cannot follow. Also as others have said, pull away the furniture from the walls to allow the cats to slide behind. At this time I may allow the cats and dogs to be able to move around at night, but have to see both how calm the cats are around the hound and vise versa. Before this I do not allow the cats and dogs to be able to be in the same room at night when I sleep, period.

 

This method of desensitization is much more effective at getting hounds and cats to live together as it reinforces the behavior you want, as opposed to correcting the behavior you don't want. For correction to work, you have to be present.

 

Do not allow your cats and dogs to co-mingle while you are gone for at least the first 3-6 months, you never know what can happen when you are gone. The muzzle does not guarantee that your cat will not be harmed. A greyhound can still kill small animals with a muzzle on.

[Guest ariaadagio]

 

Okay, between this and the soloxine, I'm REAAAALLY questioning the reputability of this rescue.

 

 

 

I've really started to do that myself I'm a little boggled, to be honest. It's a large rescue with a large facility, and they've been around a long time.

 

 

Here is my method for the first few months I have new hounds in my house:

 

Thank you very much for the suggestion! My dog seems currently somewhere between week 3 and 4, in that she has no interest in the cats when they're not moving, and is easy to divert if she chases, but it's felt like her interest in the cats is escalating, not diminishing, when I was told the opposite should happen. I've been wondering if I've been doing something wrong, or inadvertently reinforcing her behavior somehow. I think I might try your method, starting on week 1, just to see how it goes, if I can con my friend into helping me daily for a whole month.

 

Three questions.

 

1. Do you have a recommendation for a muzzle? My rescue said not to use one, so I don't have one, yet. (I'm starting to see a bad trend with this.)

2. Is it okay to allow the cats to be around the dog if the dog is crated, or should I keep them completely separate for the duration of your method except during the training sessions?

3. If I don't have another person to help me, can I put the cat in a carrier for weeks 1 and 2, or is that not effective?

[Batmom]

The type of muzzle you want is a plastic "turnout" or "basket" muzzle like this: http://www.gemgreyhounds.net/GEM-Store/kennel-muzzle/

 

Wondering if maybe there's someone in your area with a spare you can borrow, until you can get your own? The link posted above normally ships *very* quickly but still. If you were to start a new topic in "Everything Else" with a title something like "Need to Borrow a Muzzle in __________" giving your general area, might turn up something.

 

I can't help with your other questions, no cats here.

 

Good luck!

[Guest Greyt_dog_lover]

To answer your questions:

1) muzzle, as Batmom says, plastic basket muzzle.

2) you can have the cat out when the hound is in the crate, but if the cat gets around the crate and the hound gets excited (barking, whining, jumping around crate, etc.) then you will want to be sure to remove the cat as to not keep the hounds interest growing. But you should allow the hound time without the cats around as well. I just keep the cat behind closed doors because cats do so much better confined to a single room compared to a greyhound being put in a room. Greyhounds tend to not mind a crate when they can see you, but for some reason being in a room where they cant see you tends to bother them.

3) putting the cat in a carrier doesn't really work that well. The hound needs to be able to see the cat. I don't know about your cat, but my cats tend to make noise and move around a lot in a crate, so the agitated cat in a crate wouldn't do well for your training, unless you are in the 3rd or 4th week of my described method.

 

I do not bash other groups, each has their own specific reason for the rules they apply. That said, it seems that the safety of your cat could be compromised without the use of a muzzle and/or crate. If you do some research, you will see that greyhounds are used to both crates and basket muzzles. They can eat food, drink water, play with toys even sleep with a basket muzzle on. They are used to always having a muzzle on when they are outside their crates. And they are used to, even comfortable in their racing kennels. I have one female that is on the shy side and whenever we have a gathering of more than 5 people she gets so stressed she cannot lay down or sleep, the minute I put her in her crate, she will be asleep roaching away (sleeping on back with legs in the air). So contrary to what others may tell you, there are greyhounds that do not have a problem with crates.

 

Are you in Arizona by chance? I know of a group in that area that is very anti-racing and they don't like crates or muzzles. Just wondering.

Edited May 31, 2013 by Greyt_dog_lover

[Guest ariaadagio]

I do not bash other groups, each has their own specific reason for the rules they apply.

 

Oh, I definitely didn't mean to come off like I was bashing. I'm very sorry if I did! The rescue people are extremely nice, their facility is well kept, and I'm sure they mean well and love the dogs! I'm just starting to wonder if their rules are not a good fit for me and my personal situation with the kitties, etc. I'm completely new at this and had no idea what to expect when I was looking around for a rescue, which probably contributed.

 

Thank you very much for answering my questions.

 

Are you in Arizona by chance? I know of a group in that area that is very anti-racing and they don't like crates or muzzles. Just wondering.

 

No; I'm in SoCal

Edited May 31, 2013 by ariaadagio

[inugrey]

No worries, he wasn't say you were bashing, rather prefacing his statement. I want to commend you on being open to learning from the board while NOT letting too much information about your group out there.

 

Thyroid and crating are two of the bigger "great debates" on this board. The group I adopted from has been maligned on this board for recommending crating. Go figure.

 

I've been very impressed with your questions and responses. You guys will do great together by continuing to listen, research and come to your own conclusions.

[Guest jbbuzby]

Uhhhh yeah. You need a turn out muzzle. The dogs are used to wearing them EVERY day, and while it's not an every day thing for my dogs since their retirement, I still keep them around years after the fact for various reasons. If we visit a house with a cat, just to be on the safe side, is one of the main reasons. They also come in handy if your pup gets a boo boo, because cones don't always work so well for their tiny little heads and they find them more comfortable.

 

As for cats and the dog being in the crate, I feel like this is the BEST way to acclimate your dog. It gets the dog used to seeing the cats doing their normal cat thing and not getting to chase, and generally learning they just do their thing and it makes you happy (and maybe even gets the dog a treat) for just laying down and watching instead of reacting. True, it might be too much if the dog gets upset, but from what you describe I feel like it would help a lot, especially for your cats to get used to the new dog without feeling the immediate threat.

 

If you are going to give the crate a go, make sure you make it a super happy fun experience, not jail . Good luck!

[JJNg]

I'm familiar with groups that are against crating, but this is the first time I've heard of a group tell adopters not to use the kennel muzzle. Our group sends all dogs to their foster or adoptive homes with their kennel muzzle. It's such a convenient safety tool that they are already accustomed to. Plus it comes in handy if you need to prevent them from licking wounds (with a poop cup or strategically placed duct tape), and most greyhounds are much more comfortable wearing their muzzle than one of the big cones.

[Guest Wasserbuffel]

 

 

Plus it comes in handy if you need to prevent them from licking wounds (with a poop cup or strategically placed duct tape), and most greyhounds are much more comfortable wearing their muzzle than one of the big cones.

 

This exactly. My grey currently has a cut on her foot that needed bandaging. She's been wearing her muzzle pretty much non-stop for three days to keep her from messing the bandage, and it's caused her no distress other than the time I slid a treat inside and it dropped back out before she could eat it, but that was quickly fixed.

[brianamac]

Muzzles and crates are wonderful tools. Since it sounds like your group may not have a crate to lend you, many can be found on kijiji or craiglist for great prices. Good luck!

[TheFullHouse]

Muzzles and crates are used in my home as safety equipment. I have 3 in crates at night or when we are away from the house. Would you believe they prefer it that way, which is why they are still in their crates, one after several years in my home! He loves his crate to sleep at night. The other two are the same way. We had a temporary foster here for 3 days and we moved one of our dogs out of the crate to put the foster in. Would you believe my dog was so unhappy because she couldn't have her crate at bed time! Nothing wrong with crates in my opinion. Better to crate your dog than have something happen to your cats while you're away. All my dogs wear muzzles when they go outside. The muzzles have saved me a ton of money in vet bills from accidents when the dogs are playing.

[Batmom]

As you can see, most folks don't see anything wrong with judicious use of crates and basket muzzles. They're safety equipment as Judy said .

 

Adoption groups (and individual adoption representatives) tend to do/say what they feel is appropriate for most folks. There'll always be an exception or four. I have a new dog in the home right now, and this is the first time I've found it useful to crate overnight and to crate at times during the day for reasons other than alone training / potty training. This particular dog benefits from some quiet time, as does the older dog (and the older people) in the home .

[Guest ariaadagio]

Well, I don't have a crate, yet, nor somebody to help me on a regular basis, so I kind of did a hybrid of what was suggested. I put the cat in the room and brought the dog in on a leash. Whenever the dog paid attention to the cat, I'd repeat sternly, "No kitty!" until the dog looked away and/or came to me, at which point I would praise her or give her a treat. I did this at varying distances. I found that unless I'm practically sitting on top of the cat, or the cat is moving, the dog is way more interested in treats than cats. I'm hoping that if I repeat this exercise every day, and combine it with the overnight crate so they can see each other more, I'll be able to desensitize her. Does this seem like I'm on the right track, now? I really don't want to mistakenly encourage her behavior.

[robinw]

I had this cat problem with bridge angel Loca. She kept trying to kill my cat. I had to keep her tethered to my waist with her leash for a month and a half. Every time she looked at my cat she was corrected, and sometimes even squirted with a water bottle if she especially focused on Linus. I praised her whenever she ignored her. She was muzzled whenever i wasn't home. I never crated her. Like I said, it took a month and a half of consistent hard work, but they ended up being good friends.

Edited June 3, 2013 by robinw

[Guest Greyt_dog_lover]

Well, I don't have a crate, yet, nor somebody to help me on a regular basis, so I kind of did a hybrid of what was suggested. I put the cat in the room and brought the dog in on a leash. Whenever the dog paid attention to the cat, I'd repeat sternly, "No kitty!" until the dog looked away and/or came to me, at which point I would praise her or give her a treat. I did this at varying distances. I found that unless I'm practically sitting on top of the cat, or the cat is moving, the dog is way more interested in treats than cats. I'm hoping that if I repeat this exercise every day, and combine it with the overnight crate so they can see each other more, I'll be able to desensitize her. Does this seem like I'm on the right track, now? I really don't want to mistakenly encourage her behavior.

 

Yes and no. You should not correct your hound when she looks at the cat. Its ok to look at the cat. What you want to do is have the hound in the room, and simply call your hound name. When she looks, then treat. There is no reason to correct her for simply looking at the cat. If she does not look away from the cat when you call her name, waft the treat in front of her face so she knows you have something better than looking at the cat. Repeat many times. Keep it up and things will work out fine. You don't want to use correction and positive reinforcement in the same training session, very confusing to the hound. Keep with the positive reinforcement, it works much better in the long run.

 

Chad

 

Chad

[Guest ariaadagio]

I'll do that. Thanks!

[Guest Marsroving]

I will say I am not a crate person but the crate was absolutely essential when mars first came home! Crating for the first few weeks allows the dog to feel safe and acclimate to the new environment! Don't give up and one day you'll have cute pics of cuddling cats and doggies like I do.

 

Also, get a muzzle ASAP! They are sooo useful, especially if your dog ever gets a skin tear and needs to be prevented from licking, you just throw some tape over it and you are good to go! Plus mars, although cat safe, is not small dog safe in any situation. If we go anywhere that there maybe small dogs I always have his basket muzzle accessible just in case.

Edited June 3, 2013 by Marsroving

[BatterseaBrindl]

I will say I am not a crate person but the crate was absolutely essential when mars first came home! Crating for the first few weeks allows the dog to feel safe and acclimate to the new environment! Don't give up and one day you'll have cute pics of cuddling cats and doggies like I do.

 

Also, get a muzzle ASAP! They are sooo useful, especially if your dog ever gets a skin tear and needs to be prevented from licking, you just throw some tape over it and you are good to go! Plus mars, although cat safe, is not small dog safe in any situation. If we go anywhere that there maybe small dogs I always have his basket muzzle accessible just in case.

 

Not all Greyhounds enjoy being crated.

Yes...they're 'used' to crates, but in the kennel environment they have a crated hound on either side of them and one on top/under them.

This is not the same as being put in a crate in a home and being left alone.

 

I have two hounds here that reacted very negatively to being crated once they were in a home environment.

[Guest psdirector]

One of my hounds is ok about being crated, but the other gets hysterical in a crate and tries to gnaw his way out. He broke several teeth when crated in his prison program. He also doesn't react well when his brother is crated and he is not, so we don't use the crates. It is making acclimating them to the cats more challenging, but not impossible. Thank goodness for our cats' safe room - it has saved my sanity.

 

My dad moved in with us and brought his tiny, white (hyper, yappy) poodle with him. We keep a baby gate in between the hounds and the poodle just because it makes my dad feel safer about his dog, but my hounds barely notice her any more, even when she's jumping around, whining or barking. My dad brought the poodle into the family room where the hounds are to watch a movie and they didn't even notice her - too busy napping. She jumped around trying to get down to play with them, but they didn't even care about that.

 

It makes me feel encouraged for their getting to be the same way about the cats eventually.

[Guest Scarter55]

Congrats on the new addition to your family. It sounds like you've gotten plenty of input, but my dog (Lady) is in her crate quite a bit. She spends all night in there and while we are out of the house as well. Except for night, we never leave her in there for more than 6 hours at a time. Granted, she is a puppy (just turned 1 yr) and not an adult dog, and this is how we raised her. Many house dogs spend their whole lives in and out of crates, and we were encouraged to use it simply for training purposes. Lady loves her crate and usually ends the evening in there. In fact, sometimes it can be hard to get her out when I want her to go outside before bedtime. Even when she isn't in the mood to go in her crate, she dutifully trots to her crate when I ask her too. Don't feel guilty about keeping her in a crate, particularly if you put it in your bedroom while you sleep.

 

We also have cats and manage to keep them seperated to some degree. I'm not sure how your house is laid out of how this would work, but we keep Lady confined to the "great room" leaving the rest of the house (basically just upstairs) the kitty territory. They spend much of their time downstairs, and it is usually ok, but they know that they have their safe spots. We also have some "vertical territory", a piano, on which the cats can get away from the dog and be safe, even while downstairs, so that is something else that might work.

Edited June 5, 2013 by Scarter55