a_daerr Posted December 28, 2012 Share Posted December 28, 2012 He raced at 69, when I adopted him, he shot up to 73 in the first month, around 5 months of home living he dropped to the 67 and has maintained that weight. There has been a lot of speculation and testing, but the vet who has worked with greyhounds for a long time, believes it to be muscle loss. Dudley does not run very often, only if he is at the park, and after a poo, and only runs to me. He gets walked 3 times a day, but he is a lot less built than when I had him. You can feel and kinda see the last two ribs, but he still has a slim waist.My kennel manager (the group I adopted him from has their kennel along side the racing kennels) said that he could have very well been on steroids while racing (I didn't ask about all the regulations and such) So maybe that could account for it. He has no medical reason to be on grain-free except that the BB freedom gave him good poops after trying a few others. He's probably fine, but sometimes it's hard for dogs to keep weight on when they're fed grain-free. Many grain-free foods are high in protein, low in carbs (although some are also high in fat). I'm not certain how BB Freedom compares. But anyway, it's sort of the same for humans (like how people use the Atkins Diet to lose weight). Protein and carbs are both used to supply energy to the body, but protein is metabolized slower and used to build lean muscle whereas carbs are more likely to be stored as fat. Some greys, who already have a high metabolism, need the carbs to maintain weight. Grain-free is great for dogs with allergies or weight issues, but IMHO not necessary for a dog that's otherwise healthy. Then again, everyone has their own thoughts on food, and everyone knows their own dog best. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
4My2Greys Posted December 28, 2012 Share Posted December 28, 2012 He's probably fine, but sometimes it's hard for dogs to keep weight on when they're fed grain-free. Many grain-free foods are high in protein, low in carbs (although some are also high in fat). I'm not certain how BB Freedom compares. But anyway, it's sort of the same for humans (like how people use the Atkins Diet to lose weight). Protein and carbs are both used to supply energy to the body, but protein is metabolized slower and used to build lean muscle whereas carbs are more likely to be stored as fat. Some greys, who already have a high metabolism, need the carbs to maintain weight. Grain-free is great for dogs with allergies or weight issues, but IMHO not necessary for a dog that's otherwise healthy. Then again, everyone has their own thoughts on food, and everyone knows their own dog best. Just because a food is grain-free doesn't mean it's carb-free. Potatoes, sweet potatoes, peas or other carbohydrates take the place of grains. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
a_daerr Posted December 28, 2012 Share Posted December 28, 2012 Just because a food is grain-free doesn't mean it's carb-free. Potatoes, sweet potatoes, peas or other carbohydrates take the place of grains. Right, but I believe they're typically lower in carbs, in so far as the protein: fat: carb: ratio. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
4My2Greys Posted December 28, 2012 Share Posted December 28, 2012 Right, but I believe they're typically lower in carbs, in so far as the protein: fat: carb: ratio. Not necessarily. There are a few brands like Orijen, Acana and Evo that do state the meat to carb ratio because their ratios are high, but few other brands do this. I suspect because it is just the opposite and people would wonder why they are paying a higher price for fillers. Most foods don't even list the carbohydrate percentages so one really doesn't know. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Burpdog Posted December 28, 2012 Share Posted December 28, 2012 Some dogs are hungrier than humans. If you were hungry you would eat. The dogs don't have that luxury. Why must they be canned into some behavior mold? Sometimes I wonder.... Quote Diane & The Senior Gang Burpdog Biscuits Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
4My2Greys Posted December 28, 2012 Share Posted December 28, 2012 ... I will often feed Dudley right when I wake up, around 4:30 am. He normally eats at 7 am and 5:30-6pm .I get home usually around 1 pm, by 3 pm, Dudley is barking, whining and in general just acting like I am torturing .... If you look at Dudley's old schedule there was 10-1/2 to 11 hours between meals. Now he eats at 4:30 and whines 10-1/2 hours later like clockwork at 3:00. His internal clock is telling him its time to eat. So, yes, to him he is hungry. Its not so much the time of day, but length between meals that is the problem. I know greys at a kennel may only eat once a day, but they are fed an entire day's portion and have become accustomed to eating like this. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RaineysMom Posted December 28, 2012 Share Posted December 28, 2012 Not necessarily. There are a few brands like Orijen, Acana and Evo that do state the meat to carb ratio because their ratios are high, but few other brands do this. I suspect because it is just the opposite and people would wonder why they are paying a higher price for fillers. Most foods don't even list the carbohydrate percentages so one really doesn't know. I personally had a DEVIL of a time looking for a low carb or carb-free kibble when Nube was diagnosed with Osteo -- that's why I ended up just doing home cooking for him. You can get an idea of how many carbs are in something by adding up all the stuff in the breakdown on the bag (except fiber, which is carbs), factor in something called "ash" and subtract that from 100 -- that's the % of carbs. here's the info I had found: How to Quickly Calculate the Carbohydrate Content of Any Dog Food Basically, the bulk of all dog foods consist of four major nutrients… Proteins Fats Carbohydrates Moisture (water) In addition, all these products include something called ash. Ash is the non-combustible mineral residue that’s left over after burning away all the protein, fats and carbohydrates. Ash content usually measures about five to eight percent of each finished product1 . So, I routinely allow about 8 percent as a benchmark for this important variable. Together, the protein, fat, ash, carbohydrate and water content must account for roughly 100 percent of the total pre-cooking weight of any dog food. OK. Now, some simple math… Subtract the reported protein, fat, water and ash percentages from the 100 percent total. And you’ll get a fairly good idea of the carbohydrate content in that dog food. By the way, if you’re wondering why I’m ignoring the fiber content… it’s because fiber is actually a carbohydrate. So, its percentage is automatically included in your carbohydrate calculations. A Real Life Example Say a particular dog food contains 26% protein, 14% fat and 10% water. Now, allowing for an ash content of 8%… how much carbohydrate should you expect to find in that product? No problem… Simply start with a total of 100 percent… then subtract the protein, fat and moisture. And don’t forget to allow for an average ash content of about 8 percent, too. Carbohydrates = 100% – 26% – 14% – 10% – 8% = 42% In other words, if you remove all the “known” nutrients from the food, you’d be left with just the carbohydrates… in this case, about 42 percent. ******************************************************************************************************* Quote Kim and Bruce - with Rick (Rick Roufus 6/30/16) and missing my sweet greyhound Angels Rainey (LG's Rainey 10/4/2000 - 3/8/2011), Anubis (RJ's Saint Nick 12/25/2001 - 9/12/12) and Zeke (Hey Who Whiz It 4/6/2009 - 7/20/2020) and Larry (PTL Laroach 2/24/2007 - 8/2/2020) -- and Chester (Lab) (8/31/1990 - 5/3/2005), Captain (Schipperke) (10/12/1992 - 6/13/2005) and Remy (GSP) (?/?/1998 - 1/6/2005) at the bridge"Always do sober what you said you'd do drunk. That will teach you to keep your mouth shut." -- Ernest Hemmingway Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
4My2Greys Posted December 28, 2012 Share Posted December 28, 2012 Thanks for that information . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Clawsandpaws Posted December 29, 2012 Share Posted December 29, 2012 I personally had a DEVIL of a time looking for a low carb or carb-free kibble when Nube was diagnosed with Osteo -- that's why I ended up just doing home cooking for him. You can get an idea of how many carbs are in something by adding up all the stuff in the breakdown on the bag (except fiber, which is carbs), factor in something called "ash" and subtract that from 100 -- that's the % of carbs. here's the info I had found: How to Quickly Calculate the Carbohydrate Content of Any Dog Food Basically, the bulk of all dog foods consist of four major nutrients… Proteins Fats Carbohydrates Moisture (water) In addition, all these products include something called ash. Ash is the non-combustible mineral residue that’s left over after burning away all the protein, fats and carbohydrates. Ash content usually measures about five to eight percent of each finished product1 . So, I routinely allow about 8 percent as a benchmark for this important variable. Together, the protein, fat, ash, carbohydrate and water content must account for roughly 100 percent of the total pre-cooking weight of any dog food. OK. Now, some simple math… Subtract the reported protein, fat, water and ash percentages from the 100 percent total. And you’ll get a fairly good idea of the carbohydrate content in that dog food. By the way, if you’re wondering why I’m ignoring the fiber content… it’s because fiber is actually a carbohydrate. So, its percentage is automatically included in your carbohydrate calculations. A Real Life Example Say a particular dog food contains 26% protein, 14% fat and 10% water. Now, allowing for an ash content of 8%… how much carbohydrate should you expect to find in that product? No problem… Simply start with a total of 100 percent… then subtract the protein, fat and moisture. And don’t forget to allow for an average ash content of about 8 percent, too. In other words, if you remove all the “known” nutrients from the food, you’d be left with just the carbohydrates… in this case, about 42 percent. ******************************************************************************************************* Will I look weird sitting on the floor of the pet store with a calculator and bags of food? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Clawsandpaws Posted December 29, 2012 Share Posted December 29, 2012 PS, a bit off topic (I don't want to TP again) but what makes "IAMs Green Bag" so good? I have heard several people swear by this food, but the ingredients don't seem that great? (Dudley's poop is average in the am to soft/some times unpickupable in the pm) I was thinking about switching, to lower my costs and give him bouncy poops... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beachbum1 Posted December 29, 2012 Share Posted December 29, 2012 Will I look weird sitting on the floor of the pet store with a calculator and bags of food? No weirder than me dragging 2 bags of food to someplace where I can compare the numbers Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Clawsandpaws Posted December 29, 2012 Share Posted December 29, 2012 No weirder than me dragging 2 bags of food to someplace where I can compare the numbers I was going to fb message you about the IAMS, do you buy proactive mini, adult or large breed for Taylor? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beachbum1 Posted December 30, 2012 Share Posted December 30, 2012 I was going to fb message you about the IAMS, do you buy proactive mini, adult or large breed for Taylor? He gets the ProActive Mini Chunks......same ingredients as the adult green bag with the standard sized chunks. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RaineysMom Posted December 30, 2012 Share Posted December 30, 2012 Will I look weird sitting on the floor of the pet store with a calculator and bags of food? nah!!! I actually was able to get all the info online Quote Kim and Bruce - with Rick (Rick Roufus 6/30/16) and missing my sweet greyhound Angels Rainey (LG's Rainey 10/4/2000 - 3/8/2011), Anubis (RJ's Saint Nick 12/25/2001 - 9/12/12) and Zeke (Hey Who Whiz It 4/6/2009 - 7/20/2020) and Larry (PTL Laroach 2/24/2007 - 8/2/2020) -- and Chester (Lab) (8/31/1990 - 5/3/2005), Captain (Schipperke) (10/12/1992 - 6/13/2005) and Remy (GSP) (?/?/1998 - 1/6/2005) at the bridge"Always do sober what you said you'd do drunk. That will teach you to keep your mouth shut." -- Ernest Hemmingway Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Clawsandpaws Posted December 30, 2012 Share Posted December 30, 2012 nah!!! I actually was able to get all the info online I love the internet. Oh well. We shall see about the results to all these good suggestions. Vet's next week (Just in case) already adding mix ins, and maybe a food switch. Plus snacks! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
a_daerr Posted December 30, 2012 Share Posted December 30, 2012 We do Iams green bag (large breed formula, "bigger" chunks). I prefer the bigger chunks for the dental aspect, although the same ingredients are in both formulas. The ingredient that makes the poops better is the beet pulp, which is a source of fiber that greyhounds seem to do well on. For us, it also seems to be the right combination of ingredients to make the poops pick up-able, without causing gas or skin problems. With two dogs, it's also very cost effective. I can get the huge bag from Sam's for a little over $30. We tried four different grain-free, organic, limited ingredient (i.e. fad foods) over the years. Iams has been the best so far- shiny coats, good teeth, firm poops, and no gas. It's not the terrible food made of ground up flea collars and horse hooves that people think it is. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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