Back Legs Collapsing ?

[Guest grey_dreams]

Please be very cautious before giving another NSAID. He's already had two very bad reactions. You need to do a washout period anyway, time enough to run some blood tests and look at chemistry profiles. That would be good before trying another NSAID. (To be honest, I would be very reluctant to try any NSAIDs after two bad reactions, but that is me).

[Guest blueberri]

Well the reactions were both to the same medication, which to me just confirms he doesn't get on with that one AT ALL. Further confirmed by today's still not 100% behaviour, eg he peed inside for the first time since joining our family, kept walking in front of the pram (and getting donked by the wheel), having periods of hyperventilation... adverse effects are to be expected to a certain degree, just due to the way the medication works and while it has some desired effects, some undesired effects come through too (but then, it's because of such things that make antihistamines so good at helping with sleep!). It's just a shame he had such severe side effects. it's not an allergic reaction, it's just not appropriate to continue it for him.

 

The new one is Metacam, and yes we have been advised to have a washout period of 2-3 days. I'll keep a close eye on him when he starts that one.

 

Poor little bugger, he can't win lately.

[o_rooly]

No advice, but Sparky is adorable!!! and I hope you get some answers soon, and some relief for your pupper.

[Guest blueberri]

Have just returned from the orthopaedic specialist's appointment. He's confirmed there are major issues with Sparky's Lumbar region, and after examination agreed the R side seems more affected, he's clearly in pain in his back and legs - having made Sparky yelp several times (only once a drama queen response). Believes it to be LS, can't say 100% without imaging. Wants to give it 6 weeks on Metacam with Sparky on modified activity, no running, no ball-chasing (pout), no access to the yard off-leash, and only short walks of up to 20 mins on leash. No jumping up or down from car. Reckons there is a chance of the inflammation effectively resolving completely if we do this, and if not at least we haven't lost anything... it'll then be on to CT scan and either injectable or oral steroids, or surgery dependent on imaging findings.

 

He was kind enough to explore different ways to dispense Metacam, as 6 weeks worth would have cost around $500 in its current form (liquid). Half the cost for tablets (yay), and have found human version would only be $30, if I could find a GP prepared to prescribe it.

 

Am also feeling a bit incensed - the doc reckoned Sparky would have been retired due to this issue, and the racers would have known "without a doubt". Not that I would wish to have any other dog, Sparky is our heart!!, but sheesh give me a heads-up so we don't have to question ourselves as to whether we're imagining an issue or not! We even contacted the rehoming group and asked about prior injuries/issues - none. I wonder if they figured they'd retire him and sneak him through because his personality is so endearing...

 

Either way, we have answers, if not definitive ones, and hope of at least partial recovery/improvement. It's just sad the pup loses one of his favourite things as a result, as he loves chasing his ball at the dog park

[o_rooly]

I hope Sparky feels better soon. I've personally found that pinpointing causes of my own inflammation REALLY helped with my previous joint pain and stiffness.

As for the underlying-issue, I would give the adoption group the benefit of the doubt. We adopted Aston complete with a mystery limp (turned out to be a corn in a left-hind toe pad); Aston was skipped over by other adopters for about 10 months, and he was a bounce at that. Even if we had adopted a younger, healthy-looking dog, there are no guarantees in life. Sparky's a very lucky hound to have someone who cares and is investigating so thoroughly on his behalf.

Did the vet tell you that a human doctor would need to prescribe human metacam/meloxicam? back in Aston's "mystery" limp days, the vet put him on metacam; when I found out that I could get meloxicam (human) as a $4 generic at Target, the vet just wrote a script for meloxicam instead.

[Guest blueberri]

I don't think the adoption group had anything to do with it, and I realise that even if the trainers knew, the outcome is the same. I am blessed every day I get to spend with Sparky, and his spinal issues don't change that (although winning lotto would help!). And from what the vet said, the way in which their bodies move when racing, the forces involved etc can cause this, and if there is an underlying skeletal issue, the racing can cause the inflammation... Poor little buggers should get hazard pay!

 

I guess I'll explore this prescription thing a little further. I have a friend who is a doctor, so is entirely possible she'd be willing to prescribe... Will ask my pharmacist re vet prescriptions vs human.

 

Poor lil man is having a hard time with the enforced rest (no that's not sarcasm!!!!). He's used to having a run around the yard, going to the dog park 3-4 times a week and playing ball and running with the hounds... and at the moment he isn't allowed outside unless on leash (to stop him jumping up and down on the deck and stairs).

 

The clever little man has had more training time instead. We went from "stay" and managing 3 feet... to "stay" and having me go through the gate into the kitchen, hall, round to the other door and back round (full circle), with him staying put. So proud!!! AND! We had to figure out a way for him to have his bones without going outside (normally is given them on the deck and he takes them and gnaws in the grass). I took one of the fine folk here's suggestion to use a towel... so he now knows "mat" and that he's allowed bones on the "mat" but not on his "bed". If only my DH learned that quickly!

[JJNg]

I guess I'll explore this prescription thing a little further. I have a friend who is a doctor, so is entirely possible she'd be willing to prescribe... Will ask my pharmacist re vet prescriptions vs human.

I see that you're in New Zealand, and regulations there may be different. Here in the U.S., vets prescribe medication for animals, and human doctors prescribe for humans. It doesn't matter what the medication is. The majority of the medications that vets dispense and prescribe for our animal patients are actually human generics.

[Guest blueberri]

JJ: That's how it works here too, but human medication is subsidised by the govt, and animal medication isn't. Hence $30 vs $500.

[Guest Scouts_mom]

If at all possible, I recommend you try accupunture for Sparky. It worked miracles on a grey of mine that had hind-end weakness. It can be started immediately and won't interfer with the drugs or what the specialist will do (and is a lot cheaper). It may take a few weeks of treatments before you see results.

[JJNg]

JJ: That's how it works here too, but human medication is subsidised by the govt, and animal medication isn't. Hence $30 vs $500.

Ah, I see. Here the price is the same unless private insurance is covering it. But the generic meds are usually fairly inexpensive, regardless of whether you have insurance. The expensive meds are usually the brand name ones, both human and animal. Most of the NSAIDs used for dogs are only available as expensive brand name veterinary products. The only one available as a human generic is meloxicam, which is only a fraction of the cost of the brand name drugs.

 

It sounds like it was the brand name Metacam (which is a veterinary specific drug) that would be $500, and generic meloxicam would be $30. If it's similar to here, that price for generic meloxicam from a human pharmacy shouldn't change depending on whether your vet prescribed it or if a doctor prescribed it. And as far as I know, a human doctor can't legally prescribe for your dog.

[Hubcitypam]

Could you ask your vet about writing a script for Meloxicam? Two different vets wrote them for Rex when he was ill. I believe it is $4 here at Sam's/Wal Mart. Some people dismiss it as they say the dose is to hard to calculate but it worked fine for Rex and also for a very long time on Kenny Roo Who, the crippled shepherd grey mix and is a tiny fraction of the cost of the liquid.

[JJNg]

Personally, I'm only comfortable prescribing generic meloxicam for dogs that are 80 lbs or over. For a dog that size, 1/2 of the 7.5 mg tablet daily is an appropriate dose. For smaller greyhounds in the 50-60 lb range, you would need to give 1/3 of a tablet. Some people here say it's doable, but from what I can find, the tablets are usually round, and I don't see how you can cut it into thirds accurately. Quartering the pills might be easier, but that might not be an effective dose unless the dog is closer to 40-45 lbs.

 

If you decide to go this route, it is much safer to round down the dose given. I've seen some round up and give 1/2 of the 7.5 mg tablet for dogs in the 50-70 lb range, and while some dogs may be ok with this, it does increase the risk of GI ulceration. And a stomach or intestinal ulcer that perforates can be fatal. I remember reading a study that looked into dogs that died from meloxicam, and I believe many of them were on the human generic and being given slightly higher than the recommended dose.

[Guest blueberri]

He's on 1 1/2 tabs at 2.5mg/tab, so 3.75mg/day. At 32.4kg he's not quite a lightweight. He's not loving the reduced level of activity.

[greyhead]

Glad you have new medicine and a plan for Sparky. Just want to encourage you to do at least one 20-minute walk per day, and perhaps two, because six weeks is a pretty long time. We were told four years ago that keeping the muscles up as much as possible would be very important to Spencer's prognosis with his LS, and it has proven to be true. (Now that he is losing more muscle at age 12, his back end is doing much less well.) But I laugh at myself writing this, because Sparky will probably give you more encouragement than you need, right?

[Guest blueberri]

Yeah he's certainly letting us know when he's getting cabin fever. We're sticking to the "maximum" of 2 x 20min walks, with lots of snuggy time in between. As a result of us walking him down the stairs slowly he's no longer bolting back up them, or jumping off/on the deck, which helps.

[Walliered]

I order medicines all the time from India (Alldaychemist.com) and also from Canada. You do not need a prescription from a doctor. Get the right dose from your vet and order it from India. I have COPD and have used this system for years.

[Guest blueberri]

Well, we did the 6 week trial of reduced activity and NSAIDs, and he was back to his bouncy sweet self. Stopped them prior to the specialist' follow up appointment, and bam, yelping when sitting down and a very miserable wee bear indeed. Since then (4 days) he's been on high dose steroids to try and really blat the inflammation. It has totally flattened him. He's just not our dog anymore. He looks miserable He's losing weight despite me feeding him double what he was getting, and acts like he's starved between meal times. And today he peed inside, only a metre away from the open door to the back yard. We've got 3 days in which to decide whether to go forwards with surgery or not.... my heart is breaking seeing my bouncy cheeky loving boy effectively switched off.

 

I hate this

[greyhead]

Oh dear, I'm so sorry the good effects didn't last long. Now you have to make this hard decision. With a dog that young, I'd be tempted to have the surgery if I could afford it and were sure that the anesthesia would be greyhound appropriate and closely monitored, including fluid administration during surgery and afterward. By the time we found it in Spencer, he was much older and quickly developed other, life-threatening conditions that put surgery out of the question. It's still a tough call, and I wish you all the best as you make it. (P.S.: I hope he gets a chance to recover himself a bit, going off the steroids a bit before surgery if you decide to have it. Putting a bit of weight back on would be all to the good, IMHO.)

[robinw]

I'm sorry...

[Guest blueberri]

Thanks guys. The weight is continuing to fall off him. His hip/pelvic bones now jut out sharply, and all ribs are apparent and sticking out. He once again peed inside last night, quite likely because he couldn't let us know as we sleep down the other end of the house, and we know he's peeing a lot on these steroids. Am wondering if it's diabetes insipidus (if dogs get that??)

 

He's a little brighter today at least. We went to the dog park and he got to play with one of his grey friends, so I saw him smile for the first time in a week.

 

Have just noticed a few raw patches up his front leg, so am gonna go search about that. Don't know if it's from licking lots, or an injury. If he was human I'd say one was an ulcer....

 

Weird question for anyone reading... do greys' noses normally drip?

[JJNg]

The increased urination, as well as the weight loss and increased appetite, are all common side effects of steroid use in greyhounds. I wouldn't worry about diabetes insipidus (which dogs do get, but is pretty rare) since the urination is most likely just due to the steroids.

 

Sorry to hear the problems came back when he was off meds. I'd see whether the improvement continues after he is weaned off the steroids, but if he doesn't seem able to maintain the improvement off meds, I'd seriously consider the surgical options. Sending good thoughts.

 

Greyhounds often get drippy noses when they are nervous or excited.

[Guest blueberri]

Thanks JJNg That's really reassuring I'll wait til the review on Tuesday then. I just can't believe how much food is going in, and how the weight is dropping so drastically. (Part of me wants to know the trick )

 

for the review. I think we're gonna end up with a CT scan just to find out ** is going on with the poor lad.

[Guest blueberri]

At review today he didn't so much as shoot the specialist a dark look when his back end was being poked and prodded (as opposed to yelping and screaming at previous reviews), so it's looking like the steroids are doing the right thing.

 

We had a good talk about where to from here. Both of us are still hoping the issues are inflammatory and reversible, and that a period of reduced inflammation will be curative. If not, we need to proceed to imaging and decompression surgery. In that vein, we're booked in tomorrow for a GA, x-rays and steroid shots, and a further two lots as per a protocol they use for police dogs here. At best this will completely resolve the issues Sparky is having in his LS area. At worst, it buys us some time to accrue the funds for the surgery (or rather, save more so that our nest egg doesn't disappear completely).

 

I sit back at times and smack myself for not having gotten insurance when we got Sparky... but then they likely would have argued this was a pre-existing condition and refused coverage anyway.

 

So, after all that, I'd really appreciate any prayers that could be spared, both for a good longterm outcome, but also for the usual risks of anaesthesia on a hound.

 

Thanks all!

[4My2Greys]

You'll have good thoughts and white light coming from me.

[robinw]

Are you able to purchase this harness where you live? I used it for Loca when her rear legs were collapsing and it was very useful. Of course you both continue to be in my thoughts