Hailey's Kidneys Are Failing---She's Only 8 :(

[JerseyGirlInOz]

Have you joined the K9kidneys Yahoo group? They have tons of info there.

 

I did, but I find the format of Yahoo groups really clunky. There is so much to wade through, and I keep finding so much conflicting information that it's making my brain hurt.

 

On one site it says that things like rice and potatoes are OK in larger amounts, another says carbs unecessary and bad for CRF. Some say cooked vegetables are good, others say that unless you juice veggies they are not bioavailable for dogs so they are a waste of time and money.

[NeylasMom]

Try starting in the files section. I haven't been on that site since Neyla passed away, but usually there's stuff in the files section that summarizes things for you.

 

Are you considering a homemade diet? You pretty much need things like potatoes to keep the phosphorus low enough since phosphorus is quite high in meat. Veggies are fine if cooked or at least put through the food processor if fed raw. Most people cook renal diets though. The most important thing though, which you'll probably read a lot, is that she keeps eating so consider that when deciding what to do.

[Guest 2dogs4cats]

I had a GH with renal failure. She did well on a low phos diet, calcium, vit E, and Rehmannia 8 (Golden Book Tea, Chinese med). I never did the fluids or Azodyl, but the fluids seems to be the most popular route. Rehmannia isn't as well known, but it did wonders for my girl and there are a few others I ran into that have used it. There is Rehmannia 6 and 8, you could ask the vet about it. I remember my vet not being too keen on Azodyl, but can't seem to remember why. Sending healing thoughts. It's a tough disease.

[rascalsmom]

How is she doing today?

[JerseyGirlInOz]

How is she doing today?

 

She's not having a good day, unfortunately . She has vomited several times over the past 12 hours and is glued to her bed this morning. And Mokkah won't leave her side---when I was making school lunches he didn't even get up to investigate the rustle of butcher paper in the kitchen.

 

I have a call in to the vet to see if it's time to pout her on the anti-nausea meds and phosphorus binders.

[Batmom]

 

I'm sorry she's not feeling better and hope the vets can give you some meds to help.

[JerseyGirlInOz]

Try starting in the files section. I haven't been on that site since Neyla passed away, but usually there's stuff in the files section that summarizes things for you.

 

Are you considering a homemade diet? You pretty much need things like potatoes to keep the phosphorus low enough since phosphorus is quite high in meat. Veggies are fine if cooked or at least put through the food processor if fed raw. Most people cook renal diets though. The most important thing though, which you'll probably read a lot, is that she keeps eating so consider that when deciding what to do.

 

I have been giving her Hills k/d and Canin Renal, but she doesn't like it by itself so I have been mixing it in with white rice, boiled mashed sweet potato, spinach and a bit of ground beef or pork (since they are the lower-phosphorous meat options) just to keep her eating, and so far, so good. But the vomiting today is a worry.

[JerseyGirlInOz]

I had a GH with renal failure. She did well on a low phos diet, calcium, vit E, and Rehmannia 8 (Golden Book Tea, Chinese med). I never did the fluids or Azodyl, but the fluids seems to be the most popular route. Rehmannia isn't as well known, but it did wonders for my girl and there are a few others I ran into that have used it. There is Rehmannia 6 and 8, you could ask the vet about it. I remember my vet not being too keen on Azodyl, but can't seem to remember why. Sending healing thoughts. It's a tough disease.

 

What did her diet consist of?

 

It looks like Rehmannia is available here so I will ask my vet about it, but the regular vet had never even heard of Azodyl so I'm not confident that she would have heard of Rehmannia. What is the dosage?

[NeylasMom]

Try starting in the files section. I haven't been on that site since Neyla passed away, but usually there's stuff in the files section that summarizes things for you.

 

Are you considering a homemade diet? You pretty much need things like potatoes to keep the phosphorus low enough since phosphorus is quite high in meat. Veggies are fine if cooked or at least put through the food processor if fed raw. Most people cook renal diets though. The most important thing though, which you'll probably read a lot, is that she keeps eating so consider that when deciding what to do.

 

I have been giving her Hills k/d and Canin Renal, but she doesn't like it by itself so I have been mixing it in with white rice, boiled mashed sweet potato, spinach and a bit of ground beef or pork (since they are the lower-phosphorous meat options) just to keep her eating, and so far, so good. But the vomiting today is a worry.

The vomiting could be acid. I know you have her on an antacid - you might want to look into whether you have room to increase the dose or give it more frequently. Snacks throughout the day may also help - I have found the vomiting from acid is more likely when the stomach is empty.

 

The fact that she's vomited several times in one day though makes me think it might not be acid in this case, but it's something else to consider. Do you know what her phosphorus level is? My understanding is that if it falls toward the high end of the "normal" range that's still too high for an animal with CKD and diet adjustment or phosphorus binders are needed. How long has she been on kidney diet?

 

There's still also the possibility of fluids - those might be a good idea anyway until you can get her a bit more stabilized.

 

Mostly talking out of my ass here - I like to sound like an expert when I'm not. But things for you to bring up with your vet maybe.

 

FYI, Rehmannia is a chinese herb blend so I suspect unless your vet is certified in chinese medicine she won't be familiar with it. You generally can't just order those on the internet either (my vet happens to be so we've used some in the past for other issues, though not that one). Lots of good reports on the kidney cat board though so it's worth a try if you can get it.

 

I hope your girl feels better soon.

Edited October 18, 2012 by NeylasMom

[galgrey]

I had a GH with renal failure. She did well on a low phos diet, calcium, vit E, and Rehmannia 8 (Golden Book Tea, Chinese med). I never did the fluids or Azodyl, but the fluids seems to be the most popular route. Rehmannia isn't as well known, but it did wonders for my girl and there are a few others I ran into that have used it. There is Rehmannia 6 and 8, you could ask the vet about it. I remember my vet not being too keen on Azodyl, but can't seem to remember why. Sending healing thoughts. It's a tough disease.

 

What did her diet consist of?

 

It looks like Rehmannia is available here so I will ask my vet about it, but the regular vet had never even heard of Azodyl so I'm not confident that she would have heard of Rehmannia. What is the dosage?

 

Cruz is on Rehmannia. Here's the dosing instructions:

• Start with 1/2 recommended dosage and increase over 3 - 5 days
  

Dog Under 20 lbs 3 Pills 2 times per day 20 - 40 lbs 5 Pills two times per day Over 50 lbs 6 – 10 Pills two times per day

I'm also giving him a homeopathic product by Newton homeopathics called Detoxifier. It's formulated for the kidneys and liver for symptoms associated with toxicity. I give him 6 drops per day on his food. I put him on Azodyl when he was first diagnosed, but he seems to be doing much better on the Rehmannia and Detoxifier right now. Here's a link for the Detoxifier: http://www.onlynaturalpet.com/products/Newton-Homeopathics-Detoxifier/161012.aspx I decided to try it after reading the reviews on this site and it has exceeded my expectations. Sending good thoughts for you and your sweet girl. I know how stressful this is.

[Guest 2dogs4cats]

I had a GH with renal failure. She did well on a low phos diet, calcium, vit E, and Rehmannia 8 (Golden Book Tea, Chinese med). I never did the fluids or Azodyl, but the fluids seems to be the most popular route. Rehmannia isn't as well known, but it did wonders for my girl and there are a few others I ran into that have used it. There is Rehmannia 6 and 8, you could ask the vet about it. I remember my vet not being too keen on Azodyl, but can't seem to remember why. Sending healing thoughts. It's a tough disease.

 

What did her diet consist of?

 

It looks like Rehmannia is available here so I will ask my vet about it, but the regular vet had never even heard of Azodyl so I'm not confident that she would have heard of Rehmannia. What is the dosage?

 

You can buy Rehmannia online (Chinese Herbs direct) or if you have a Chinatown nearby, it's cheaper. Rehmannia 6 formula is the same as the 8 minus the warming herbs. My dog was always shivering, so I gave her the 8. I gave her 4 pills twice a day and she was 65 pounds. It looks like the post above gave a much higher dose. I started out at 2 pills 2x per day for a week and then 4 pills 2x per day. She stopped having accidents at 4 pills, so I held to that dose.

 

I fed her some canned food (Canidae Platinum, Royal Canin Renal) and a homemade diet (bread, Total cereal and ground beef). I balanced the phos and the calcium. I am not recommending this diet. It's just what I came up with that was balanced and that she would eat. Sometimes you just have to come up with stuff that they will eat as appetite is one of the hardest things to overcome. The vomiting is worrisome. Depending on her lab numbers, it could be a sign that a "flush" is needed. Sometimes IV fluids can give them a boost until the diet and meds start bringing the numbers down.

 

I hope she feels better soon.

[JerseyGirlInOz]

I had a GH with renal failure. She did well on a low phos diet, calcium, vit E, and Rehmannia 8 (Golden Book Tea, Chinese med). I never did the fluids or Azodyl, but the fluids seems to be the most popular route. Rehmannia isn't as well known, but it did wonders for my girl and there are a few others I ran into that have used it. There is Rehmannia 6 and 8, you could ask the vet about it. I remember my vet not being too keen on Azodyl, but can't seem to remember why. Sending healing thoughts. It's a tough disease.

 

What did her diet consist of?

 

It looks like Rehmannia is available here so I will ask my vet about it, but the regular vet had never even heard of Azodyl so I'm not confident that she would have heard of Rehmannia. What is the dosage?

 

Cruz is on Rehmannia. Here's the dosing instructions:

• Start with 1/2 recommended dosage and increase over 3 - 5 days
  

Dog Under 20 lbs 3 Pills 2 times per day 20 - 40 lbs 5 Pills two times per day Over 50 lbs 6 – 10 Pills two times per day

I'm also giving him a homeopathic product by Newton homeopathics called Detoxifier. It's formulated for the kidneys and liver for symptoms associated with toxicity. I give him 6 drops per day on his food. I put him on Azodyl when he was first diagnosed, but he seems to be doing much better on the Rehmannia and Detoxifier right now. Here's a link for the Detoxifier: http://www.onlynatur...ier/161012.aspx I decided to try it after reading the reviews on this site and it has exceeded my expectations. Sending good thoughts for you and your sweet girl. I know how stressful this is.

 

 

Aaaaand.... Detoxifier isn't available in Australia either. I can get it through eBay, but the sellers charge $20 for shipping, which is more than the cost of the actual product. . I'll have to get my sister in San Diego to send it to me---hopefully it will clear customs.

 

So far I have only able to find the Rehmannia in a blend (http://www.vitaminwa...dney-Tonic.html). Is the one you're giving Cruz straight up, or in a blend of other stuff?

[rascalsmom]

I haven't read all the responses, but is she getting subcutaneous fluids? When our cat was in kidney failure we gave her fluids, and it helped tremendously for a while. It flushed the toxins out.

[JerseyGirlInOz]

I haven't read all the responses, but is she getting subcutaneous fluids? When our cat was in kidney failure we gave her fluids, and it helped tremendously for a while. It flushed the toxins out.

 

When she was first diagnosed, she was in for 4 days getting IV drips, then 2 days the following week, but hasn't started subQ's yet because she was eating and drinking fine. But she is having another really bad day today---even worse than yesterday---so I am bringing her in to the vet later today so we can get her started on subQ's. I need her to stop vomiting long enough for the meds and sups to start to work.

[galgrey]

I had a GH with renal failure. She did well on a low phos diet, calcium, vit E, and Rehmannia 8 (Golden Book Tea, Chinese med). I never did the fluids or Azodyl, but the fluids seems to be the most popular route. Rehmannia isn't as well known, but it did wonders for my girl and there are a few others I ran into that have used it. There is Rehmannia 6 and 8, you could ask the vet about it. I remember my vet not being too keen on Azodyl, but can't seem to remember why. Sending healing thoughts. It's a tough disease.

 

What did her diet consist of?

 

It looks like Rehmannia is available here so I will ask my vet about it, but the regular vet had never even heard of Azodyl so I'm not confident that she would have heard of Rehmannia. What is the dosage?

 

Cruz is on Rehmannia. Here's the dosing instructions:

• Start with 1/2 recommended dosage and increase over 3 - 5 days
  

Dog Under 20 lbs 3 Pills 2 times per day 20 - 40 lbs 5 Pills two times per day Over 50 lbs 6 – 10 Pills two times per day

I'm also giving him a homeopathic product by Newton homeopathics called Detoxifier. It's formulated for the kidneys and liver for symptoms associated with toxicity. I give him 6 drops per day on his food. I put him on Azodyl when he was first diagnosed, but he seems to be doing much better on the Rehmannia and Detoxifier right now. Here's a link for the Detoxifier: http://www.onlynatur...ier/161012.aspx I decided to try it after reading the reviews on this site and it has exceeded my expectations. Sending good thoughts for you and your sweet girl. I know how stressful this is.

 

 

Aaaaand.... Detoxifier isn't available in Australia either. I can get it through eBay, but the sellers charge $20 for shipping, which is more than the cost of the actual product. . I'll have to get my sister in San Diego to send it to me---hopefully it will clear customs.

 

So far I have only able to find the Rehmannia in a blend (http://www.vitaminwa...dney-Tonic.html). Is the one you're giving Cruz straight up, or in a blend of other stuff?

 

This is the one I'm giving Cruz : http://www.onlynatur...#entry-overview I ordered it from this site, but it's available on others. He's still incontinent, but doing so much better in all ways otherwise.

 

ETA:

The ingredients in the Golden Book teapills I'm using and the Kidney Tonic in your link are similiar but not exactly the same.

Edited October 19, 2012 by galgrey

[Valencia]

Mo... :grouphug I'm so sorry you are going through this. Let me know if I can ship you meds.

[JerseyGirlInOz]

Mo... :grouphug I'm so sorry you are going through this. Let me know if I can ship you meds.

 

Thanks, Shannon . My sister mailed out 2 bottles of Detoxifier (the last 2 on the shelf at her local store) on Friday, and I was able to get Rhemannia 6 locally. But I will take you up on that if I need more.

 

And to update, I took her to the vet on Friday evening for the vomiting. The good news is, she hasn't lost any weight since being diagnosed and isn't showing signs of dehydration, so the vet gave her a shot of anti-nausea meds to get her through. She is now back on the anti-nausea tablets and hasn't vomited at all over the weekend.

 

The bad news is, she has not moved from her bed, except to eat and go for walks. I am grateful that she is still eating and still interested in going for walks, but seeing her so flat the rest of the time (and Mokkah glued to her side keeping vigil) makes my heart hurt .

[galgrey]

Mo... :grouphug I'm so sorry you are going through this. Let me know if I can ship you meds.

 

Thanks, Shannon . My sister mailed out 2 bottles of Detoxifier (the last 2 on the shelf at her local store) on Friday, and I was able to get Rhemannia 6 locally. But I will take you up on that if I need more.

 

And to update, I took her to the vet on Friday evening for the vomiting. The good news is, she hasn't lost any weight since being diagnosed and isn't showing signs of dehydration, so the vet gave her a shot of anti-nausea meds to get her through. She is now back on the anti-nausea tablets and hasn't vomited at all over the weekend.

 

The bad news is, she has not moved from her bed, except to eat and go for walks. I am grateful that she is still eating and still interested in going for walks, but seeing her so flat the rest of the time (and Mokkah glued to her side keeping vigil) makes my heart hurt .

 

Glad to hear she's not vomited over the weekend and is eating. I will also be glad to ship you anything you want to try that you can't get there. Keeping you and Hailey in my thoughts.

[NeylasMom]

Mo... :grouphug I'm so sorry you are going through this. Let me know if I can ship you meds.

 

Thanks, Shannon . My sister mailed out 2 bottles of Detoxifier (the last 2 on the shelf at her local store) on Friday, and I was able to get Rhemannia 6 locally. But I will take you up on that if I need more.

 

And to update, I took her to the vet on Friday evening for the vomiting. The good news is, she hasn't lost any weight since being diagnosed and isn't showing signs of dehydration, so the vet gave her a shot of anti-nausea meds to get her through. She is now back on the anti-nausea tablets and hasn't vomited at all over the weekend.

 

The bad news is, she has not moved from her bed, except to eat and go for walks. I am grateful that she is still eating and still interested in going for walks, but seeing her so flat the rest of the time (and Mokkah glued to her side keeping vigil) makes my heart hurt .

 

How is she doing today?

 

You had mentioned you were going to discuss the possibility of sub-Q fluids with your vet. Was there a reason she/you decided not to start her on them? Obviously I am not a vet, but I suspect based on what you said in your last post that she's still feeling really crappy. My understanding is that that feeling crappy is usually from the build up of toxins because the kidneys can't do their job anymore. The whole reason kidney dogs drink so much is because that helps aid the kidneys in removing the toxins, but often times they physically won't/can't drink enough for that to happen, which is where the subQ fluids come in. If Hailey will tolerate them, which most dogs do, I don't see what harm it would cause to try them for a little bit and see if she perks up.

 

In the meantime, one great suggestion I got from the cat kidney board (which I may or may not have already shared, I can't even remember I'm so wordy ) is to make sure she has very easy access to multiple water bowls to encourage her to drink more. Since she's not leaving her bed much, I would put a large bowl of fresh water right by her bed within reach without her having to get up and change the water 2x/day, as well as put bowls (in raised feeders or just on a stack of books or something similar if you don't have the feeders) in her path where she'd walk from her bed to go outside to potty, to where she sleeps at night, etc.

 

The funny thing is I used to only have the one bowl of water in the raised feeder outside of my kitchen (in a very central area for my tiny place) for the dogs, but since putting water around in various spots for the cat, I find the dogs drink out of those bowls more often than the existing one. They seem to really like the one that automatically refills that I put in the LR and the bowl I put on the inside of the crate they all use off and on in the bedroom. For what that's worth.

 

I hope she's feeling better with the anti-nausea meds.

[JerseyGirlInOz]

Sorry I haven't updated.... I was away at Grade 4 camp for the past 3 days with DS. The great news is---I have come home to a completely different dog!!!

 

Last week I started her on Rhemannia 6 and the closest probiotics I could find to the ones in Azodyl. She has also been getting daily fish oil and CoQ10. She has been very hit-or-miss with the prescription food, so I made up a batch of homemade (pork mince, sushi rice, potatoes, sweet potatoes, egg whites and ground egg shells). I've been mixing in Inliven (a green probiotic/superfood) and Liverplex (which has similar ingredients to the Detoxifier, just to hold her over until the Detoxifier arrives).

While I was gone, I got daily reports from DH that she was eating like a champion, and when I got home, I was greeted with an explosion of stuffie-tossing and zoomies that went on forever . I know that the ups and downs of this disease are our "new normal", but after being sent home to die by 3 different vets, seeing her happy and silly again feels like a miracle.

[Remolacha]

so glad to hear she is doing better!

[Guest grey_dreams]

So glad to hear she is doing so great! I'm really happy she is responding so well!

[Guest 2dogs4cats]

So happy to see this update!

[galgrey]

I cannot tell you how happy I am to see this update! And I think I know just how you feel.

[JerseyGirlInOz]

Mo... :grouphug I'm so sorry you are going through this. Let me know if I can ship you meds.

 

Thanks, Shannon . My sister mailed out 2 bottles of Detoxifier (the last 2 on the shelf at her local store) on Friday, and I was able to get Rhemannia 6 locally. But I will take you up on that if I need more.

 

And to update, I took her to the vet on Friday evening for the vomiting. The good news is, she hasn't lost any weight since being diagnosed and isn't showing signs of dehydration, so the vet gave her a shot of anti-nausea meds to get her through. She is now back on the anti-nausea tablets and hasn't vomited at all over the weekend.

 

The bad news is, she has not moved from her bed, except to eat and go for walks. I am grateful that she is still eating and still interested in going for walks, but seeing her so flat the rest of the time (and Mokkah glued to her side keeping vigil) makes my heart hurt .

You had mentioned you were going to discuss the possibility of sub-Q fluids with your vet. Was there a reason she/you decided not to start her on them? Obviously I am not a vet, but I suspect based on what you said in your last post that she's still feeling really crappy. My understanding is that that feeling crappy is usually from the build up of toxins because the kidneys can't do their job anymore. The whole reason kidney dogs drink so much is because that helps aid the kidneys in removing the toxins, but often times they physically won't/can't drink enough for that to happen, which is where the subQ fluids come in. If Hailey will tolerate them, which most dogs do, I don't see what harm it would cause to try them for a little bit and see if she perks up.

 

In the meantime, one great suggestion I got from the cat kidney board (which I may or may not have already shared, I can't even remember I'm so wordy ) is to make sure she has very easy access to multiple water bowls to encourage her to drink more. Since she's not leaving her bed much, I would put a large bowl of fresh water right by her bed within reach without her having to get up and change the water 2x/day, as well as put bowls (in raised feeders or just on a stack of books or something similar if you don't have the feeders) in her path where she'd walk from her bed to go outside to potty, to where she sleeps at night, etc.

 

The funny thing is I used to only have the one bowl of water in the raised feeder outside of my kitchen (in a very central area for my tiny place) for the dogs, but since putting water around in various spots for the cat, I find the dogs drink out of those bowls more often than the existing one. They seem to really like the one that automatically refills that I put in the LR and the bowl I put on the inside of the crate they all use off and on in the bedroom. For what that's worth.

 

I hope she's feeling better with the anti-nausea meds.

 

When I took her to the vet on Thursday night I asked the vet about subQ's. This particular vet isn't a big fan of subQ's (she feels they are too traumatic and not as effective in dogs as they are in cats) and since Hailey wasn't dehydrated she advised against it. I decided to go with that advice for now since 1) the anti-nausea injection was quite painful, and 2) because I really felt that if she could hold down the supps long enough to start working she wouldn't need the additional fluids since she was still eating and drinking. She tends to be so traumatized by the vet visits---and it seems to take her days to recover from them---that I don't want to subject her to any more than is absolutely necessary.

 

I did take your advice about putting extra water bowls out. The one by her bed was crucial since she really wasn't getting up much at all last week.

 

I am so grateful to all of you who have offered advice, support and good thoughts. It means more than you can possibly imagine