Raw Diet

[Trihounds]

Carl has problems with bone, so I've been giving him 1 Tablespoon of apple cider vinegar with breakfast for a year now. He doesn't hork bones anymore as a result The main bones they get are Cornish hens cut in half, turkey necks and duck necks. Claire doesn't have any issues digesting bone, but I give her the apple cider vinegar, too. Can't leave my girl out of all of the fun.

 

I agree with everyone above, you'll know by the poop!

 

Interesting - what does the apple cider vinegar do? Maybe it would help my two that don't handle large bones well.

[BootsyCollins]

I'm guessing it adds acid to help digestion?

 

I need to start my hunt for sources in earnest. And order a 40# case of chicken quarters

[seeh2o]

My vet suggested it, she said it could help his digestive tract break down the bones. He was horking up bones, he did it a lot before I started him on it. I have to keep it up, I've stopped it to see what happens, he goes back to horking. Not as bad, but I don't wait to see if it will be like it was before. It works really well and pretty fast, I think he completely stopped within 2 weeks. I buy the organic and unfiltered stuff, not the Heinz stuff you find in the grocery store. The Heinz stuff is really harsh, but the organic unfiltered seems much milder. I was buying it from Trader Joe's, but theirs seemed harsh, too. I buy it in big bottles at a health food store or at Sprouts.

 

ETA: I'm very lucky, my vet is very knowledgeable and supportive about feeding raw. She feeds her dogs raw and works with a local butcher who mixes and sells her special blends. What's cool about this is that she doesn't promote it, doesn't make any money off of it. I found out about it through someone else who feeds raw and when I went to the butcher shop. I can't afford to buy it, so I cobble it together for my two.

Edited May 14, 2012 by seeh2o

[Guest Roadtripper]

Personally, we stay away from ribs of everything but fowl. No pork, beef or other large animal ribs. I find them far too thick / dense / strong for our 4 dogs. It is no problem to feed all meat and then bones, like, chicken or turkey backs as a 'side dish'.

Our dogs are having chicken leg quarters tonight. Lat night, they had beef without any bone at all as we are out of stock! We also by whole chicken and cut it in quarters for the 4 of them. Think about the dog's meal like a person's with a main course and a couple sides. No problem to have pure meat as a main with a side of chicken backs or necks. Even turkey on the side. Mix and match species - we do beef with chicken parts like feet, backs, necks all the time.

Your goal should be to balance the percentages over time, like a week or so ( or 2). For the bone content, we let the stool be the judge. Sounds odd, but soft poop needs more bone, that simple. For big RMB's, we give knee joints with meat still attached but they only pull at cartilage and tendon. We don't allow chewing of weight bearing bones at all. Our dogs don't like organs and only a little gives a couple really soft stool so we are careful.

For the next while, stick to smaller, softer, more malleable bones. There is no need to feed ribs.

The following are on our personal 'do not feed' list (from experience and best judgement based on that experience):

• Turkey necks for Squirt and Omie (thrown up bits of bone more than once)
• Ribs for all
• Chicken necks for Omie (too small for the gulper)
• Pork neck
• Pork or ox tail
• Any weight bearing bone of anything other than a bird
• Turkey wings
• Turkey legs
• Turkey backs.

Don't give up on raw feeding or try to over complicate it. Stay away from dense bone and too much organ and hennesey will be fine. Everything in between will be perfect.

 

This post is very helpful for a newbie considering feeding raw (like moi ). Thank you!

 

 

Carl has problems with bone, so I've been giving him 1 Tablespoon of apple cider vinegar with breakfast for a year now. He doesn't hork bones anymore as a result The main bones they get are Cornish hens cut in half, turkey necks and duck necks. Claire doesn't have any issues digesting bone, but I give her the apple cider vinegar, too. Can't leave my girl out of all of the fun.

 

I agree with everyone above, you'll know by the poop!

 

Also very helpful! How do you give the vinegar? Added to their food first? Thanks!

 

ETA: Thanks to the OP for asking questions I'm sure I would run across! Hope your boy is doing ok.

Edited May 14, 2012 by Roadtripper

[seeh2o]

I just pour it on top of their breakfast meat. I'm lucky, very lucky, my two are not picky at all about what they eat. They eat everything with gusto. I have a friend who feeds partially raw and she has a very difficult time getting her boy to eat. He is really fussy.

[Guest DragonflyDM]

Carl has problems with bone, so I've been giving him 1 Tablespoon of apple cider vinegar with breakfast for a year now. He doesn't hork bones anymore as a result The main bones they get are Cornish hens cut in half, turkey necks and duck necks. Claire doesn't have any issues digesting bone, but I give her the apple cider vinegar, too. Can't leave my girl out of all of the fun.

 

I agree with everyone above, you'll know by the poop!

 

Interesting - what does the apple cider vinegar do? Maybe it would help my two that don't handle large bones well.

 

 

The esophegus and internal sphincters contract when presented acids. This is what keeps the bile in the stomach. When you, or your dog, have heart burn or acid moves past the stomach-- a big of vinegar can reboot the sphincters to close and keep things where they belong.

 

You can often stop vomiting or regurgitating with a bit of vinegar. Apple cider vinegar is one of the few that is palletable.

 

BTW...this is good for people and heartburn too. Works instantly.

Edited May 14, 2012 by DragonflyDM

[Trihounds]

Carl has problems with bone, so I've been giving him 1 Tablespoon of apple cider vinegar with breakfast for a year now. He doesn't hork bones anymore as a result The main bones they get are Cornish hens cut in half, turkey necks and duck necks. Claire doesn't have any issues digesting bone, but I give her the apple cider vinegar, too. Can't leave my girl out of all of the fun.

 

I agree with everyone above, you'll know by the poop!

 

Interesting - what does the apple cider vinegar do? Maybe it would help my two that don't handle large bones well.

 

 

The esophegus and internal sphincters contract when presented acids. This is what keeps the bile in the stomach. When you, or your dog, have heart burn or acid moves past the stomach-- a big of vinegar can reboot the sphincters to close and keep things where they belong.

 

You can often stop vomiting or regurgitating with a bit of vinegar. Apple cider vinegar is one of the few that is palletable.

 

BTW...this is good for people and heartburn too. Works instantly.

 

Who knew? Thanks for the great info!

[NeylasMom]

Heart wouldn't "count" as organ meat, right? Liver is the important one? Or is that completely wrong?

 

Why would a raw fed dog need a calcium supplement?

I should have popped back in here sooner. I missed all the posts about how awesome I am.

 

I think someone already answered your question about heart, it's muscle meat, not organ. I try to feed liver and kidney weekly (about a 1/2 lb of each) and occasionally rotate in some other interesting organ.

 

I think I already told you this, but I personally wouldn't choose pork next. Pork is the farthest animal we eat routinely from a dog's natural diet imo and certain cuts can be quite fatty. I actually think beef heart is a great thing to introduce next. If you don't care at all about where the meat comes from, the ethnic markets around here are a great place to look for things like tongue, organ, heart, etc., but seriously, hook up wtih my meat guy. If he's doing a drop somewhere in the Baltimore area, you can just tack on and won't need to feel bad about placing a small order. Plus he'll give you the same price on the quarters (just tell him you want the B&E quarters fresh, they're the SAME EXACT ONES that Whole Foods gets as he works in the distributing plant for WF).

 

Oh, and you don't need a calcium supplement if you're feeding bone. Whacky advice.

 

Rough night, I fed Hennesey 3 beef rib slabs last evening around 8pm. I heard him trying to regurgitate at about 5:30 am, he did bring up pieces of WHOLE BONE, much to my dismay . WHAT WENT WRONG HERE?? And his stomach hasn't stopped grumbling since then. He's outside now eating grass . Are there certain MEATY cuts, bones that should NEVER EVER be crushed and ingested by a dog/never be fed???? Or does this just depend on the dog?? Also, it seems to me that most of the weight in meaty bones comes from the bone itself, not meat. Am I incorrect in this observation? How do you achieve feeding the 80% meat over time? What types of meaty bones will provide more meat than <safe ingestible> bone? Can I feed him let's say a raw boneless chicken thigh with some turkey necks? Don't know about this! I see things are off to a very rocky start.......... Feeling scared for my boy........

Too much bone, not enough meat in his diet is my guess. It's a pretty common mistake for people to make early on. It's also sometimes tough for dogs to adjust to eating raw at the beginning - my theory is that after years on kibble they produce less stomach acid than would be natural, and necessary to digest the bone in raw meaty bones. So it takes them a little while to get back to normal and in the interim, you can get some vomiting of bone. Note that vomiting is different than regurgitating, which can happen simply if they eat too fast or swallow something whole and it happens relatively immediately. Usually they'll just go back and re-eat it. What you're describing is actually vomiting.

 

I recommend people switching their dog from kibble to raw start the dog on a quality probiotic supplement a few weeks before the switch to help get their guts back on track and help with the transition. And while I'm not a proponent of feeding ground long term, if you have a source for raw ground chicken WITH BONE, it may make the transition easier initially since the bone is already broken down somewhat.

 

My final two cents, if I were going to feed beef ribs, unless they were extraordinarily meaty, I would feed some boneless meat alongside them. I would also only feed them if they were an intact rack, not ribs that are cut up individually as you're more likely to have sharp edges that way.

 

The only bones I do not feed are weight bearing bones of larger animals.

[Guest rocknrooos]

Truth of the matter is I've been cooking his meat for the last few years, as this all started because of his digestive issues. I just kept at it. So, he has not been on kibble for 3 years now. I sure hope him being used to cooked meat isn't setting this RAW thing up for failure because he has turned away from chicken backs and legs. He's not even touching raw liver and heart. He'll eat the stuff cooked, though. So far he does enjoy the turkey necks. I ordered some chicken and pork necks for him to try, we'll see.

[Trihounds]

You aren't alone - our Bumper wouldn't touch raw chicken OR organ meat for the longest time so I started grinding it (so I could mix it) and with the change in texture, he happily consumed. We've gone back to whole leg, breast, back and he has not turned his nose up yet. Once Hennesey gets used to the texture again, he'll probably come around, but you may have to play around with things a bit. Little devils can be finicky....!

[NeylasMom]

A lot of dogs need you to sear the organ meat for a little while so you could try doing that instead of cooking it through and gradually reduce the amount of time in the pan until it's actually raw. Letting it sit out for a bit so it's not refrigerator cold may also help, or feeding it frozen may work. You'll have to play around a bit, but if you're persistent you should soon have a dog who happily eats all of his raw food.

[Guest rocknrooos]

I appreciate you walking through this with me, your experience says it all! I will sear the organs for now.....

I'm off to our local West Side Market on Saturday for some chicken feet and kidney Will keep you posted as the boy and I journey together, thanks!

[Guest rocknrooos]

Well, picked up turkey backs, hearts and more necks, couple of cut up rabbits and some chicken feetsies. Hennesey is continuing to be a problem child ! He's turning away from the necks, backs, feet and wants nothing to do with even boneless chicken thighs, cubed. Running out of magic wands here, and I'm nearly through the roof! I'm hesitant to spend the few hundred on a grinder only for him to remain finicky with ground RAW. Thoughts or suggestions?

[seeh2o]

My freind's greyhound can be finicky (he eats a partially raw diet), she has taken to searing the meat in a pan with a little olive oil and he eats it right up. I don't know how this may or may not complicate it being "raw" and it's nutritional value, since it is lightly cooked.

[Hawthorn]

Well, picked up turkey backs, hearts and more necks, couple of cut up rabbits and some chicken feetsies. Hennesey is continuing to be a problem child ! He's turning away from the necks, backs, feet and wants nothing to do with even boneless chicken thighs, cubed. Running out of magic wands here, and I'm nearly through the roof! I'm hesitant to spend the few hundred on a grinder only for him to remain finicky with ground RAW. Thoughts or suggestions?

 

Please don't take this the wrong way, but if he doesn't LIKE the raw food, why continue to try to make him eat it? I'm not against raw diets, nor am I fanatically in favour of them. Mine have a commercial raw food for breakfast most days, and absolutely love it, but their other meals are home-cooked (which they also love) or kibble/commercial wet food (which they also enjoy but not as much as the raw or home-cooked). If they didn't like a particular food, or liked it for a while and then went off it, I'd stop giving it to them and find something else. I just imagine what it would be like if someone tried to force me to eat sushi, or something else that I find equally disgusting, no matter how "good" it might be for me or how much other people might enjoy it. Food is something to be enjoyed, surely?

 

You asked for thoughts, and those are mine.

[Guest rocknrooos]

Thanks for the suggestion, I have been searing his organ meat and he's been OK with that and eating it. Can't really sear raw meaty bones though. Besides, I'm really trying to get away from cooking any of his food. The nutritional content in cooked comes nowhere near RAW. For a 70lb hound, it's terribly time consuming too. I haven't ruled out a grinder yet...........

[Guest DragonflyDM]

Personally, we stay away from ribs of everything but fowl. No pork, beef or other large animal ribs. I find them far too thick / dense / strong for our 4 dogs. It is no problem to feed all meat and then bones, like, chicken or turkey backs as a 'side dish'.

Our dogs are having chicken leg quarters tonight. Lat night, they had beef without any bone at all as we are out of stock! We also by whole chicken and cut it in quarters for the 4 of them. Think about the dog's meal like a person's with a main course and a couple sides. No problem to have pure meat as a main with a side of chicken backs or necks. Even turkey on the side. Mix and match species - we do beef with chicken parts like feet, backs, necks all the time.

Your goal should be to balance the percentages over time, like a week or so ( or 2). For the bone content, we let the stool be the judge. Sounds odd, but soft poop needs more bone, that simple. For big RMB's, we give knee joints with meat still attached but they only pull at cartilage and tendon. We don't allow chewing of weight bearing bones at all. Our dogs don't like organs and only a little gives a couple really soft stool so we are careful.

For the next while, stick to smaller, softer, more malleable bones. There is no need to feed ribs.

The following are on our personal 'do not feed' list (from experience and best judgement based on that experience):

• Turkey necks for Squirt and Omie (thrown up bits of bone more than once)
  
• Ribs for all
  
• Chicken necks for Omie (too small for the gulper)
  
• Pork neck
  
• Pork or ox tail
  
• Any weight bearing bone of anything other than a bird
  
• Turkey wings
  
• Turkey legs
  
• Turkey backs.
  

Don't give up on raw feeding or try to over complicate it. Stay away from dense bone and too much organ and hennesey will be fine. Everything in between will be perfect.

 

 

I am with you on pork and turkey. All the problems I have ever had where with pork and turkey…. In addition, I would keep a few canine raw meat patties or dog food meat in the tube in the freezer. Nothing worse in the world to find out you ran out of real food or the chicken as past its expiration and there is nothing in the house. If you give him kibble as an alternative, expect the runs for a day or so until he gets it out of his system.

[Guest greyhound9797]

Well, picked up turkey backs, hearts and more necks, couple of cut up rabbits and some chicken feetsies. Hennesey is continuing to be a problem child ! He's turning away from the necks, backs, feet and wants nothing to do with even boneless chicken thighs, cubed. Running out of magic wands here, and I'm nearly through the roof! I'm hesitant to spend the few hundred on a grinder only for him to remain finicky with ground RAW. Thoughts or suggestions?

 

Please don't take this the wrong way, but if he doesn't LIKE the raw food, why continue to try to make him eat it? I'm not against raw diets, nor am I fanatically in favour of them. Mine have a commercial raw food for breakfast most days, and absolutely love it, but their other meals are home-cooked (which they also love) or kibble/commercial wet food (which they also enjoy but not as much as the raw or home-cooked). If they didn't like a particular food, or liked it for a while and then went off it, I'd stop giving it to them and find something else. I just imagine what it would be like if someone tried to force me to eat sushi, or something else that I find equally disgusting, no matter how "good" it might be for me or how much other people might enjoy it. Food is something to be enjoyed, surely?

 

You asked for thoughts, and those are mine.

 

To answer both of your posts....other than searing or freezing liver and organ because they're a very necessary part of the diet, I wouldn't do anything to cater to my dog to get her to eat. What is served is what you get. If you become their personal chef and start adding "special" ingredients or doing things differently all the time then your dog will come to expect that and you'll create a very picky eater. I've been lucky that both my greys ate anything I gave them and especially love organs, but if there was something that they didn't eat at that meal, they got it the next meal and that continued until they ate it.

 

Sandra in FL

[BootsyCollins]

I found some beef liver on sale at the grocery store. It was .5 lb, so I gave Bootsy half of it. Is that right? Then he can have the other half next week or something? It was so gross, I could barely keep myself from puking.

[Hawthorn]

Well, picked up turkey backs, hearts and more necks, couple of cut up rabbits and some chicken feetsies. Hennesey is continuing to be a problem child ! He's turning away from the necks, backs, feet and wants nothing to do with even boneless chicken thighs, cubed. Running out of magic wands here, and I'm nearly through the roof! I'm hesitant to spend the few hundred on a grinder only for him to remain finicky with ground RAW. Thoughts or suggestions?

 

Please don't take this the wrong way, but if he doesn't LIKE the raw food, why continue to try to make him eat it? I'm not against raw diets, nor am I fanatically in favour of them. Mine have a commercial raw food for breakfast most days, and absolutely love it, but their other meals are home-cooked (which they also love) or kibble/commercial wet food (which they also enjoy but not as much as the raw or home-cooked). If they didn't like a particular food, or liked it for a while and then went off it, I'd stop giving it to them and find something else. I just imagine what it would be like if someone tried to force me to eat sushi, or something else that I find equally disgusting, no matter how "good" it might be for me or how much other people might enjoy it. Food is something to be enjoyed, surely?

 

You asked for thoughts, and those are mine.

 

To answer both of your posts....other than searing or freezing liver and organ because they're a very necessary part of the diet, I wouldn't do anything to cater to my dog to get her to eat. What is served is what you get. If you become their personal chef and start adding "special" ingredients or doing things differently all the time then your dog will come to expect that and you'll create a very picky eater. I've been lucky that both my greys ate anything I gave them and especially love organs, but if there was something that they didn't eat at that meal, they got it the next meal and that continued until they ate it.

 

Sandra in FL

 

What you do is up to you of course. I love my dogs and want them to enjoy their (healthy) meals. And I disagree that giving a dog a varied diet creates a picky eater - just a happy one. I can't imagine being so hard-hearted as to force a dog to eat something it doesn't like in the way you describe, any more than I would treat myself that way. I made myself a salad for lunch yesterday, had a few mouthfuls and then decided I didn't like it and had something else. Maybe I should just keep serving it up to myself until I eat it - that'll teach me .

 

OP - apologies for the hijack.

[NeylasMom]

I found some beef liver on sale at the grocery store. It was .5 lb, so I gave Bootsy half of it. Is that right? Then he can have the other half next week or something? It was so gross, I could barely keep myself from puking.

Yes, although in theory I might have started with a smaller amt to see how he tolerated it. Too late now.

[BootsyCollins]

Well we all know that he's made of diamonds. Of course he tolerated it fine.

[NeylasMom]

Well we all know that he's made of diamonds. Of course he tolerated it fine.

I figured.

[RobinM]

Welcome to GT! Hopefully the transition to raw was painless for you and your pups.

 

Let me give you our personal experience in response to your questions. We have 4 raw fed hounds;

 

- we worry about nothing except the freshness of the meat we buy. All of it is human grade so I'm assuming it's good enough for the hounds. Bacteria has not been an issue for the hounds.

- we buy wherever we can get the best price and look for 'manager specials'.

- we've done main stream grocery stores (though I can't stand buying meat in Styrofoam packaging), butchers, and a farmer (and we then had the meat cut/wrapped).

- my only concern feeding raw is to not oversize a bone - ie: make sure it is smaller than a chicken drumstick, and even then, 2 of our 4 tend to vomit up undigested bits. We don't give extra large turkey necks and stay away from small chicken necks as well.

 

Our hounds are thriving on raw so we'll continue as long as we can.

 

You have a great variety and it looks like a good menu (thought we don't give veggies or fruit, personally).

 

Enjoy GT.

 

Here is a good thread from Greyhound9797 on raw feeding:

 

Raw Feeding Basics

 

Agreed. I have 3 of my 6 hounds on raw.

[Guest apocalyp]

Well, picked up turkey backs, hearts and more necks, couple of cut up rabbits and some chicken feetsies. Hennesey is continuing to be a problem child ! He's turning away from the necks, backs, feet and wants nothing to do with even boneless chicken thighs, cubed. Running out of magic wands here, and I'm nearly through the roof! I'm hesitant to spend the few hundred on a grinder only for him to remain finicky with ground RAW. Thoughts or suggestions?

 

Please don't take this the wrong way, but if he doesn't LIKE the raw food, why continue to try to make him eat it? I'm not against raw diets, nor am I fanatically in favour of them. Mine have a commercial raw food for breakfast most days, and absolutely love it, but their other meals are home-cooked (which they also love) or kibble/commercial wet food (which they also enjoy but not as much as the raw or home-cooked). If they didn't like a particular food, or liked it for a while and then went off it, I'd stop giving it to them and find something else. I just imagine what it would be like if someone tried to force me to eat sushi, or something else that I find equally disgusting, no matter how "good" it might be for me or how much other people might enjoy it. Food is something to be enjoyed, surely?

 

You asked for thoughts, and those are mine.

 

To answer both of your posts....other than searing or freezing liver and organ because they're a very necessary part of the diet, I wouldn't do anything to cater to my dog to get her to eat. What is served is what you get. If you become their personal chef and start adding "special" ingredients or doing things differently all the time then your dog will come to expect that and you'll create a very picky eater. I've been lucky that both my greys ate anything I gave them and especially love organs, but if there was something that they didn't eat at that meal, they got it the next meal and that continued until they ate it.

 

Sandra in FL

 

What you do is up to you of course. I love my dogs and want them to enjoy their (healthy) meals. And I disagree that giving a dog a varied diet creates a picky eater - just a happy one. I can't imagine being so hard-hearted as to force a dog to eat something it doesn't like in the way you describe, any more than I would treat myself that way. I made myself a salad for lunch yesterday, had a few mouthfuls and then decided I didn't like it and had something else. Maybe I should just keep serving it up to myself until I eat it - that'll teach me .

 

OP - apologies for the hijack.

 

I don't feed raw although I do keep looking into it and might make the jump but the way I see it is, you treat your dogs like kids ..... if kids don't want to eat their vegetables, meats, fruit, milk (like many don't) you tell them to eat it usually. You can't compare your diet to your dogs either for the varied diet since we require a more varied diet to get all our nutrience. Also obviously if the dog has an adverse reaction to a certain food you obviously stop.

 

 

 

In the end to each his own