Obedience Training A Grey

[Guest lfreem2]

Two weeks ago, Ellie and I started formal obedience training at a school that is here locally (not Petsmart). I was warned by the Grey adoption agency to teach her to sit before we attended the class, as (I was told), some greys have trouble siting and I could easily spend all 6 weeks with her at class just trying to do sit. Well, I taught Ellie to sit in just 3 days, and off we were to obedience class.

 

Of course, there's your typical golden retriever/labrador types in the class that will do every command 20 million times over throughout the entire class. Ellie, however, has zero interest. For one, she is not motivated by the treats. Last week, I didn't even feed her breakfast, and it still had no effect on her treat drive. She'll do a sit or down 2 or 3 times in the class and then proceeds to just fully lay down to sleep for the rest of the class. The other students and teacher find this hilarious (I get lots of comments like, well, it sure does look like she'd got that lay down nailed!). LOL!

 

It's as if Ellie does it twice and looks at me as if saying, "Look, I did that sit/stay twice to appease you, and I'm not a mindless idiot like those labradors that will sit/stay all day long. So, do me a favor and bugger off so I can spend the rest of the class snoozing and watching these other silly dogs get up and down." LOL!

 

At home, I can get her to do much more than at the darn class, which is funny. Has anyone else experienced this when it comes to Greys and obedience classes?

 

Oh, and then the most humorous thing at the end of the class we do about 5 minutes of agility where the dogs are able to go over raised walkways and such. So, they have an A-frame wooden hill and the labs are going and are petrified/legs shaking. It's our turn and I warn the trainer that I think Ellie won't do this because stairs aren't exactly a favorite for retired greys. Well, Miss Ellie was the only one to successfully go up and down this thing without a hitch. AND, she was the only one to jump over the raised bar too! Go figure!

[Sambuca]

Bu was like that in class, but Ellie is doing more than Bu did. He would walk in and immediately go to sleep.

[Guest june]

While training Jazzy she too would do something correct a couple of times and then give me the look that says, "Hey, I just did it right for you twice and I'm not doing it again!" I think this must be a greyhound thing. I just had her do something twice and then did not ask her to do it anymore.

 

Now, when we were in the ring doing rally she would do the command every time. Somehow she knew the difference between practice and the real deal. Of course she loved going to shows and prancing in the ring with everyone watching!

[Guest auforygirl]

If a dog isn't treat motivated... by the way have several types of treats - including hot dogs, cheese, zukes mini naturals, train me treats, even peanut butter.

But if a dog isn't treat motivated have a squeaky toy that they love when they do a few have a play time.

Also move around some people get trapped in their "spot" I had a dog that would do the same thing but he did it because he wanted to play with the other dogs and when we told him to do anything else he sulked. So we had to have her walk in circles with him. keep him moving.

[Guest DragonflyDM]

The only thing I can’t teach boomer for basic commands is sit and lay down. He just does not want to and nothing is that important for him to do it on command. For the first time in my life I took a dog to someone else for obedience training and they failed too.

 

 

So…. stay is going to be good enough.

[Sighthounds4me]

I've done several obedience classes with several sighthounds. They do learn differently, for certain.

 

I have learned that class is not the time to teach the dog anything. Repeat the command a couple times, praise like crazy, and that's it. Classes are MUCH too long and boring for dogs to learn anything of substance. Instead, they teach the human how to train the dog. Use short, positive sessions at home to actually do the training. This is especially true of dogs at a beginner's level. The more advanced they are in training, the longer you can keep their attention. But 30-45 minutes, the average length of classes, is far to long for any dog!

 

If you have a trainer that does not believe this strategy, find a different trainer. My trainer, also a good friend, employs this belief, and tells the class this the first week of every training session.

[christinepi]

I've done several obedience classes with several sighthounds. They do learn differently, for certain.

 

I have learned that class is not the time to teach the dog anything. Repeat the command a couple times, praise like crazy, and that's it. Classes are MUCH too long and boring for dogs to learn anything of substance. Instead, they teach the human how to train the dog. Use short, positive sessions at home to actually do the training. This is especially true of dogs at a beginner's level. The more advanced they are in training, the longer you can keep their attention. But 30-45 minutes, the average length of classes, is far to long for any dog!

 

If you have a trainer that does not believe this strategy, find a different trainer. My trainer, also a good friend, employs this belief, and tells the class this the first week of every training session.

 

Your Borzois are breathtakingly beautiful. Just had to say that.

[philospher77]

Hounds, in general, are not into repeating the same command multiple times. If you can break it up a bit, you may be able to get her to do more: sit, sit, down, touch, sit, spin, down, touch, sit, etc. But yeah, Katie would get to a point where she was like "nope... I'm done for the day!" I just got good at reading her, and, to a certain degree, I go to these classes so that she can get experience with surviving loud, somewhat unpredictable, but controlled environments. So if she is laying quietly by my chair, licking her peanut butter bone, I count it as a win. A lot of the time in my classes is spent with the dogs happily eating peanut butter (or cheese) bones, and a little bit is spent actually working the dogs.

[christinepi]

Bu was like that in class, but Ellie is doing more than Bu did. He would walk in and immediately go to sleep.

 

That made me laugh out loud. It reminds me of a certain someone.

[cleptogrey]

i always bring a non-skid bath mat and some toys to class.the bath mat for the long downs and long sits, also to make sure they are always comfy when not working. the toy- well, training should taste good(special treatsm ie raw meat!)and be fun. when i have worked the move w/ my pup i go on to something different. i mix things up, play around w/ left hand turns, right hand turns, come, stay and what ever, even if the class isn't up to that. i know my greys will do something 2xs max and then i play with them. when it's time to "share" and do your thing i go back to the basic command. don't follow me in class, you will be circling to the left, circling to the right, doing a yoga dog pose and then some. i basically take my dogs to the class for the distractions, tips from the teachers and time away from home where i can focus on them one-on-one.greys learn fast and you gotta keep them on their toes!

[Guest lfreem2]

That's what we've been doing as well. It's been 10 years since my last dog went to obedience, so I wanted to refresh my memory on how to train them. The instructor is more than fine to let her lay down after she does it a few times. I practice at home, and that's been fine.

 

I do have many diff treats with me, but she just doesn't really care. After the 5th treat, she's just looking at me as if saying, "that darn treat just isn't worth all this effort." Lol!

[Batmom]

See if you and the instructor can cook up some new things to teach her so you can practice a big variety during class (turn in a little circle, sit from a down, etc.). Late in life, I learned the value of Wildside Salmon and of hotdog slivers (which are cheaper than the salmon).

 

My angel Batman had a somewhat higher tolerance than your girl, but he did have only so many sits in him per class. Once you reached that number, he was done with sitting, and there was no point in asking him to do it again. (He would happily continue to do anything you hadn't maxed out, tho.) Best to stop asking before the point of refusal, as you learn to gauge when it's coming. For some dogs, it can also be a help to step out of class for 5 minutes; go for a walk/sniff around the property and then come back to class refreshed.

 

Sounds like you and your girl are doing great!

[Brandiandwe]

 

I do have many diff treats with me, but she just doesn't really care. After the 5th treat, she's just looking at me as if saying, "that darn treat just isn't worth all this effort." Lol!

 

PK is exactly like that. Last week at obedience she came in and zoned out completely. Just stood in the middle looking around. The instructor attempted to demonstrate something with her. Nothing. Sigh. At least we didn't fixate onany fluffies...

 

Having said that Booster is going great guns.

[robinw]

Treasure did nothing during six weeks of obedience school. She graduated because the teacher said, "Treasure, look beautiful". A few years GT's maximum (Lisa) and I took Max and Phoenix to a click for tricks class. Every week Max and Phene would start to whine and rest their heads on each other. The teacher would say, "The greyhouds are done"

 

In two weeks my very scared galgo, Iker, is starting obedience school. I've enrolled him in a class limited to four dogs, including him. Hopefully we'll have some success with socialization.

Edited April 9, 2012 by robinw

[Guest saabqueen7]

My question is, how do you teach them to sit at all? My angel Shadow never would. When he tried, his legs would shake really hard and he looked so pitiful I didn't have the heart to keep going. Is there a good way to help them be more comfortable?

[Jackandgrey]

I've done several obedience classes with several sighthounds. They do learn differently, for certain.

 

I have learned that class is not the time to teach the dog anything. Repeat the command a couple times, praise like crazy, and that's it. Classes are MUCH too long and boring for dogs to learn anything of substance. Instead, they teach the human how to train the dog. Use short, positive sessions at home to actually do the training. This is especially true of dogs at a beginner's level. The more advanced they are in training, the longer you can keep their attention. But 30-45 minutes, the average length of classes, is far to long for any dog!

 

If you have a trainer that does not believe this strategy, find a different trainer. My trainer, also a good friend, employs this belief, and tells the class this the first week of every training session.

 

This is what I found with Jilly too. Basically I was learning how to train her and we did it at home. Other than recall which she was a star with, it was like she was in a daze throughout the class. But that little girl was in reality was amazing in how easily she learned what we then practised at home.

[Sighthounds4me]

I've done several obedience classes with several sighthounds. They do learn differently, for certain.

 

I have learned that class is not the time to teach the dog anything. Repeat the command a couple times, praise like crazy, and that's it. Classes are MUCH too long and boring for dogs to learn anything of substance. Instead, they teach the human how to train the dog. Use short, positive sessions at home to actually do the training. This is especially true of dogs at a beginner's level. The more advanced they are in training, the longer you can keep their attention. But 30-45 minutes, the average length of classes, is far to long for any dog!

 

If you have a trainer that does not believe this strategy, find a different trainer. My trainer, also a good friend, employs this belief, and tells the class this the first week of every training session.

 

Your Borzois are breathtakingly beautiful. Just had to say that.

 

Awww, thanks! We love them!

[Guest lfreem2]

Same thing here. We practice at home no more than 15 minutes and she's fine. I told the instructor last week that perhaps I should come to the class and leave Ellie at home. LOL! The woman laughed out loud. I'm just taking the info and applying it at home, and that seems to be working.

 

However, the instructor did say that it's important to do these sessions also out of the house where she may not necessarily be as comfortable, as these commands are also important outside of the house. Of course, this sounds totally right to me and makes sense. She said she constantly hears owners say, "my dog does it at home, but won't anywhere else in public..."

[NeylasMom]

What are you using for training treats?

[Guest meggera]

Our first week of obedience class Vanille was interested in everything BUT me and the commands. She wanted to sniff, socialize, play. But when it came time to ask for behaviors she wasn't interested in the very least. The next week I upped my anty and brought boiled chicken. Now she will do anything I ask for in class (unless it is a sit) at least two or three times. It is so fun to see them learn and progress but it is a real process to figure out their tells when they are finished working and need a break.

[Guest lfreem2]

We've tried all the "wholesome" bagged treats possible. Last week I cooked up some chicken and she still didn't give a hoot. I really don't want to use hotdogs due to the salt/crappy ingredients aspect.

[Guest Giselle]

However, the instructor did say that it's important to do these sessions also out of the house where she may not necessarily be as comfortable, as these commands are also important outside of the house. Of course, this sounds totally right to me and makes sense. She said she constantly hears owners say, "my dog does it at home, but won't anywhere else in public..."

: Good! It sounds like your trainer knows what she's doing.

 

Dogs rarely perform as well in public as they do at home. Why? Stress - it can be happy stress (excitement) or fearful stress (anxiety, nervousness, etc). Also, dogs never perform as well outside as they do at home because, most likely, the handler is mildly stressed, too. I know that when I'm in the ring, I'm ALWAYS a little nervous. No matter if it's a practice agility run or a short rally sequence or even if I'm just doing a casual demonstration for students, I'm always a little nervous. Hence, my nervous body language makes my dog anxious. That's it Nothing more nothing less.

 

Also, this is also why dogs sometimes "aren't hungry even when they should be". An animal under stress will not eat. It is physiologically unlikely. Thus, if your "should-be-hungry" dog is refusing food, she is probably stressed. The key is to practice often and everywhere, and avoid pushing your dog to the limit where she refuses food.

[krissy]

We've tried all the "wholesome" bagged treats possible. Last week I cooked up some chicken and she still didn't give a hoot. I really don't want to use hotdogs due to the salt/crappy ingredients aspect.

 

As with people it is not WHAT you eat but the QUANTITY that you eat. Everything in moderation. A hot dog once a week for obedience class will not hurt her. Just like a bag of potato chips every now and again won't hurt you. Obviously eating nothing but hot dogs wouldn't be that great for her, but as a treat it's not a big deal. Personally I think it is more dangerous for a dog to not be able to concentrate outside the home and respond to commands than to eat a hot dog every now and again for training. Summit gets a whole variety of treats for training and hot dogs and pepperettes are definitely on that menu. I can assure you that he's in tip top health, and I don't worry about his behaviour in public or what happens if he slips a lead/pulls a lead out of my hand/slips out a door.

 

And Ellie might not even be that enticed by hot dogs at class. Some hounds are stressed enough that they aren't interested in their favourite foods at class. Thankfully for me Summit LOVED obedience and agility class. In his first level 2 obedience AND his intro agility class he was the best student. Then we retook level 2 at another facility and he was VERY nervous. I don't blame him. This facility was dark, had lowish ceilings, was kind of echo-y, and the trainer was great but smoked like a fiend so the room always smelled like an ash tray. Summit was definitely much more difficult to keep concentrated and it was hard to always convince him to perform his commands. I certainly didn't blame him and understood why, but at the same time it is important to me that my dog can perform no matter what the environment (and the trainer himself was quite good) so we stuck it out and I'm glad we did.

[Guest itsagreytlife]

Selah & I just started an advanced class with the local Parks & Rec a few weeks ago. I say "advanced" since she already has most basic commands down (when she wants to, I should add), can "touch" a target, and is so good on lead (but not quite "obedience training" good! ). She will be getting her CGC certificate after this is over. I am hoping to eventually get her therapy dog certified--she shows great aptitude. There is only one other dog there (not including the instructor's hyper/silly/well trained Vishla), but we do it at a park (so I am unable to unleash her) and there are lots of kids everywhere!--either at soccer practices or on the playground. We are usually stuck right in between. Quite a stimulating environment! She does get bored (starts whining in the direction of the woods) but I try to just keep loving on her, etc. to keep her engaged. I am constantly having to readjust my expectations, since, well, since she's a greyhound --at least for right now. She is one of few greys that does sit voluntarily, so that is awesome.

 

Our instructor does not have experience with greys, but is the type to think she knows enough (you know what I mean), so she is always generalizing about why Selah is doing something or not doing something. After the first class (and venting to my husband on the way home via Bluetooth), I decided to just get whatever I could out of the class and ignore the rest. Unfortunately for us, Selah is on a food trial, so she can only have her kibble and the corresponding dog treats, which doesn't lend to overexuberance on her part. I do take her there hungry (it starts right about the time she usually eats dinner) and that definitely makes her more interested in the treats. Interestingly she gets upset (or jealous?) when she sees the instructor's bird dog go running at the end of class as part of that dog's reward. Very frustrating for me, as usual, not to be able to let Selah go, but oh well. Selah will watch Gabby (the bird dog) running, ears up and neck stretched out; then when Gabby is called back (and she always comes back, of course), Selah growls at her and maybe even squeezes out a bit of a bark. And she has lunged at her once or twice. Never seen her do this kind of thing anywhere else--she is a little sweetie pie. I don't discipline her for it, just quietly walk her a few paces away until she calms down. She also gets afraid when the two dogs occasionally do some play bowing & stuff. I have learned to pull Selah away and stand in front of her as a protector of sorts.

 

Its worth it,as it gets Selah out in a different environment, gets some good dog-smelling in, and of course I can practice at home with her. And its not very expensive. It is amazing to watch the other breeds, particularly the Vishla, be so excited all the time and "up" for playing at a moments notice. You forget that other dogs are like that after having a grey for awhile. But I love the way Selah is and wouldn't trade her for a hyper/more playful dog ever! I hope to take her to an INDOOR agility training some time in the future. Greys sure are interesting, aren't they?

[Guest Angelique]

I've done several obedience classes with several sighthounds. They do learn differently, for certain.

 

I have learned that class is not the time to teach the dog anything. Repeat the command a couple times, praise like crazy, and that's it. Classes are MUCH too long and boring for dogs to learn anything of substance. Instead, they teach the human how to train the dog. Use short, positive sessions at home to actually do the training. This is especially true of dogs at a beginner's level. The more advanced they are in training, the longer you can keep their attention. But 30-45 minutes, the average length of classes, is far to long for any dog!

Great advice here. For the schutzhund stuff we would do 4ish hour training sessions. 10-15 of work, another 10-15 relaxing, sniffing, a quick run, dog socializing, repeat. Some of the GSD are monsters though... they could go 2hrs straight and not break attention more than once or twice. But Greys ARE smarter than GSD and won't be tricked into that.

 

My question is, how do you teach them to sit at all? My angel Shadow never would. When he tried, his legs would shake really hard and he looked so pitiful I didn't have the heart to keep going. Is there a good way to help them be more comfortable?

Yes, a nice fluffy mat helps train sits and downs. Slowly reduce the softness while increasing the treat value until he will sit/down on a hard surface. Patience, this is the hardest thing for some greys to ever learn. My boy was sooo awkward when I got him, and he would shake terribly. He still does when doing certain things. I think the key here is to fortify the muscles since they are probably muscles he has never used before and TREAT TREAT TREAT, praise praise praise. If you have another dog that sits that may also help so he can *see* what he is supposed to be doing. The shakiness goes away with time.

 

However, the instructor did say that it's important to do these sessions also out of the house where she may not necessarily be as comfortable, as these commands are also important outside of the house. Of course, this sounds totally right to me and makes sense. She said she constantly hears owners say, "my dog does it at home, but won't anywhere else in public..."

: Good! It sounds like your trainer knows what she's doing.

 

Dogs rarely perform as well in public as they do at home. Why? Stress - it can be happy stress (excitement) or fearful stress (anxiety, nervousness, etc). Also, dogs never perform as well outside as they do at home because, most likely, the handler is mildly stressed, too.

We have the opposite problem, but that's my fault. I'm more lenient at home. If we are out, he will do 49 out of 50 commands and he will do them in less than two seconds. If we are at home, he probably does 8/10, and only after thinking about them for a few seconds. ie. Mom, seriously, are you sure you really want me to get out of bed and come into the kitchen? Really mom, why do you want me to sit, just give me the treat, i will just look at you with my sweet eyes until you give it to me anyway.

 

Keep things interesting, mix up commands, mix up activities and try to keep them engaged, even if it involves you looking like a fool during the class(if it's not food motivated). 15-20 minutes of solid practice is great, if you can get that. don't push any more. Treat, hug, love on them, let them rest -after a down, sleep- and have fun! Get home and go through it again. Uhmmmm ... greys are made to sleep, anything you can get out of them after that is a huge plus.