Trying To Work On Eye Contact

[Guest 302Crew]

Hello!

 

I have a quick question about my new boy.

 

He's been here only a short period of time - just over two weeks. He seems to be adjusting just fine to life as a pet, although I know it's still early.

 

Our issue: He is super duper excitable when it comes to other dogs when he's on leash. I mean inconsolable, whining, barking...staring. Until now, I have not found a way to break his concentration. It doesn't appear that he's aggressive towards them...just VERY curious and VERY excitable - but I'm no expert. Since I cannot break his fixation on the other dogs it just gets loud and uncomfortable for all of us.

 

The other night we were on a walk and a lady had 3 dogs off leash at 10 o'clock at night. One was a doodle of some sort, and he other two were 2 month old Chihuahua puppies...just running around on the road. It was one of those situations where we rounded the corner and we were suddenly surrounded by dogs off leash.

 

Sooo there we stood with our guy who is straight off the track. I actually had to yell at her to come get her dogs...and very quickly slipped the muzzle on my our boy. I think I sounded a little annoyed with her - which I felt bad about afterwards. Regardless all ended well for everyone, and I was rather pleased that our boy didn't have a full-on meltdown (I'm not sure he saw the tiny Chihuahua pups).

 

So for the time being we've been avoiding strange dogs on walks, and if we do get a surprise then we usually move out of the way and let the other dog pass. This doesn't always work because a lot of people want to stop and talk about our Grey - which is great. It gives us a chance to preach about greyhounds. However most of the time we have to cut the discussion short because he just never settles down if there's a dog there.

 

I know that part of the issue is that I can't break his concentration. I can't get him to focus on me, neither can DH. Now, I know he's only been here two weeks. We've been trying to work on the 'look at me' command, but we're having very little luck.

 

Bottom line: I'm hesitant to trust him with new dogs if I can't control him at this time. Does that make sense? Or am I just being hyper sensitive? He gets really loud and it can be scary for other dogs/owners.

 

So our priority is building trust and bonding with him and keeping him safe. We've been doing this by:

 

-walking him regularly (more than once a day)

-we instituted the rules surrounding "Nothing in Life is Free" the moment he walked in the door

-we trade up when we take his stuffies away

-we're hand feeding him in his crate. If his meal is a messy one then our hand is in the bowl while he's eating.

 

He's never shown any kind of food aggression - yet. He has started showing some possessiveness with his toys - which is understandable - so we control his access to them.

 

He hasn't discovered the couch yet so he's not on any furniture.

 

I guess my question is: Should we be doing more to build the trust and bond? Or is it realistic to say "Mel, it's only been 2 weeks....give it time".

 

I'm just not sure if we should be doing more? I really just want him to be comfortable on walks and not always on the lookout.

 

Any suggestions would be very welcome!

 

Thanks,

 

-Melanie

[XTRAWLD]

2 weeks is a short period of time - it is still quite an adjustment period for him.

 

Also, don't expect him to give you eye contact. Eye contact is confrontational and challenging and a sign of dominance. While my 9 year old boy loves giving eye contact now, he did not dream of it for the first year we had him. Likewise for my younger Ryder....Ryder lacks a lot of confidence and although we've had him a couple years now, it's rare for us to make eye contact.

[JAJ2010]

-we're hand feeding him in his crate. If his meal is a messy one then our hand is in the bowl while he's eating.

Why this? Seems like it would be a huge PITA to do this...

 

He's never shown any kind of food aggression - yet. He has started showing some possessiveness with his toys - which is understandable - so we control his access to them.

 

How is he showing possessiveness? Will he stop with a VOG telling him to knock it off? A short direct correction sure would be a lot easier.

 

Seems like you a huge researcher like me who tries to puzzle piece different methods into something that works. I say relax and give it time! Practice basic obedience (watch me, leave it, drop it, wait/ok) Make sure to keep it FUN for both of you.

 

Try not to avoid other dogs just deal with it in a matter of fact no nonsense way. Keep him at a heel and tell him to cut the crap while marching on your way, dragging him along if you have to. NO meeting dogs unless he behaves. Also do you have any friends with large dogs? He might not even know they are other dogs. They sure don't look like the other dogs he has always lived with. Maybe some nice playmates or even just walking buddies would benefit him.

 

I could be wrong, but you just might find that he will listen if you stop stressing and worrying so much ( Look at the pot calling the kettle black)

Edited March 5, 2012 by JAJ2010

[Guest 302Crew]

2 weeks is a short period of time - it is still quite an adjustment period for him.

 

Also, don't expect him to give you eye contact. Eye contact is confrontational and challenging and a sign of dominance. While my 9 year old boy loves giving eye contact now, he did not dream of it for the first year we had him. Likewise for my younger Ryder....Ryder lacks a lot of confidence and although we've had him a couple years now, it's rare for us to make eye contact.

 

I should have been clear...I don't mean a stare. I just mean a look...just for a second for the time being. I realize that staring (for lack of a better word) is confrontational...so I'm just talking about a glance in my direction...an acknowledgement of sorts...not a fully locked in staring contest.

 

But I do appreciate and understand what you mean. Thank you!!

[Guest 302Crew]

-we're hand feeding him in his crate. If his meal is a messy one then our hand is in the bowl while he's eating.

Why this? Seems like it would be a huge PITA to do this...

 

He's never shown any kind of food aggression - yet. He has started showing some possessiveness with his toys - which is understandable - so we control his access to them.

 

How is he showing possessiveness? Will he stop with a VOG telling him to knock it off? A short direct correction sure would be a lot easier.

 

Seems like you a huge researcher like me who tries to puzzle piece different methods into something that works. I say relax and give it time! Practice basic obedience (watch me, leave it, drop it, wait/ok) Make sure to keep it FUN for both of you.

 

Try not to avoid other dogs just deal with it in a matter of fact no nonsense way. Keep him at a heel and tell him to cut the crap while marching on your way, dragging him along if you have to. NO meeting dogs unless he behaves. Also do you have any friends with large dogs? He might not even know they are other dogs. They sure don't look like the other dogs he has always lived with. Maybe some nice playmates or even just walking buddies would benefit him.

 

I could be wrong, but you just might find that he will listen if you stop stressing and worrying so much ( Look at the pot calling the kettle black)

 

We were recommended to hand feed him by hand for the first little while. It is a PITA, but I don't mind. It's fun for both of us. It's going to be ending soon, because I really don't think he needs it.

 

As for his toys, he's fine 90% of the time. But the other night he was really, really intense with one toy in particular. Long story short he ended up pulling the squeaker out of it...I was worried about him swallowing it. He growled as my DH walked by him to get a cookie to trade up with. So we traded up for a cookie and threw out the toy - he killed it. VOG didn't work in that situation, but it does work in others. He's a good boy. I'm just assuming he loves his toys...I would too if I never had them before either.

 

We definitely try to keep it fun with him. He's fun...so it's easy to do. We're practicing the basic obedience stuff "Wait, Lay Down, Drop it, Leave it"...and he's getting better and better with all of them, but he will not "watch me"...nope. So that's what I'm trying to work on...and I don't know how. I've tried treats...and I've only had success with it a couple times.

 

I do appreciate the feedback. I really do. When he does meltdown on a walk we do exactly as you said. We take a deep breath and keep on movin'. I just didn't know if there was a better way. OH, and I wouldn't be surprised to find out he doesn't even know they're dogs.

 

Unfortunately we don't have anyone with a large breed dog. We have friends who have a 3.5 month old springer spaniel, and he's petrified of large dogs. So that will come in time...but not quite yet.

 

Thank you sooo much for the insight...it's very appreciated.

[Guest mariah]

Does he perform the "watch me" command reliably on walks when there aren't any other dogs around? The best way to get it to work is to start with no/limited distractions, wait until he's reliably performing the command, and work your way up from there. In the beginning especially, every time he looks up at you (even if not prompted), give lots of praise and smiles and several small treats...one right after the other, rather than just one big one. Once he's watching you reliably when there aren't other dogs around, you can start having him do it when dogs are far enough away that he won't be fixated on them, and gradually get closer. I would avoid letting him meet other dogs until he's able to do so calmly. We are going through the same thing with our new dog...she loves dogs so much that she can get overly-excited and forget her manners. She can now remain calm within close distance of another dog, but she isn't quite ready to greet politely. When we encounter other dog owners, we've simply been telling them that she's new, in training, and isn't ready to meet other dogs on-leash yet.

 

Good luck with your new guy!

Edited March 5, 2012 by mariah

[JAJ2010]

Sounds like you guys are just fine! For the watch me command are you putting the treats right up next to your eye? Once he even glances up in that direction reward instantly with food and a party of praise. He knows a lot for only being there two weeks. The watch me stuff will come in time.

 

When I brought my first grey home she would growl at any other dog and at our first M7G she lunged at her Foster Sister! I was in a panic even though everyone told me that she was fine... She just needed a couple more months to settle down and understand her new life. Now she greets every dog big or small and loves making new friends.

[greysmom]

I guess my question is: Should we be doing more to build the trust and bond? Or is it realistic to say "Mel, it's only been 2 weeks....give it time".

 

-Melanie

 

 

Yes, to both. You have a good start and you should continue. Hand feedingand NILIF are probably not necessary. He doesn't sound like a "dominant" (I hate that word) personality and he doesn't sound aggressive and if he's shown no resource guarding, he probably won't. Stuffies are different. Remember he's never, ever had anything of his own before. He's beginning to settle in and toys are becoming more valuable to him. If he's a stuffie killer, then likely once the squeaker is dead, he will lose interest in the toy and taking it won't be a problem.

 

Two weeks is too soon to expect him to have enough confidence to do a "watch me" command reliably in any situation. He needs more time and confidence to feel comfortable with looking you in the eye. One thing you can try is to up the treat value significantly - hot dogs, warm chicken, stinky cheese, jerky - what ever is his most favorite treat, specifically for this command. If he's not food motivated, continue teaching him the other commands and only work on "watch me" when he's having a really good session.

 

AND - give him more time and patience. It really only has been two weeks! You will likely see his personality change a lot over the course of the next several months.

[3greytjoys]

Two weeks is too soon to expect him to have enough confidence to do a "watch me" command reliably in any situation. He needs more time and confidence to feel comfortable with looking you in the eye. One thing you can try is to up the treat value significantly - hot dogs, warm chicken, stinky cheese, jerky - what ever is his most favorite treat, specifically for this command.

I agree with Greysmom.

 

Here are two toys that you may be able to allow him longer access:

Tuffie Toys are great for hounds that kill stuffies. They have squeakers but are made much, much tougher than regular stuffies.

http://www.tuffietoys.com/ultimate-series

(Our Tuffie Toys have lasted many years with hounds/fosters, still in excellent condition.)

 

Hard "Durachew" made by Nylabone. Souper size (flat and wide shapes are good).

Bacon or chicken flavor (not original flavor = no flavor).

Hard Durachews last a long time and help keep teeth much cleaner.

www.entirelypets.com Search: "Durachew Souper size"

(Peanut butter smeared on bone helps interest.)

 

Greyhounds have not been taught obedience/family life commands. It's fine to let them settle into their new environment first, and begin to build trust with new humans slowly. Your boy is trying to figure out so much right now. I wouldn't expect much eye-to-eye contact. Being sighthounds, they naturally visually scan their surroundings during walks.

 

Other actions to try for now:

Try a quick turn or U-turn walking the opposite direction to break his vision of another dog, or keep moving forward very quickly.

Play "find it" game: Toss treats on ground several feet in front of hound (only if other dog is far enough away not to intercept treats, like across a street). Hound's focus is on finding special high value treats instead of other dog.

 

Greyhounds are very intelligent and learn new things well when repeated in natural daily life.

It's always helpful to try to catch hound doing an action naturally, add word and treat.

When hound happens to make eye contact naturally at home, reward with treat instantly.

Clicker training: Hold treat near eye, upon eye contact, click and treat instantly.

Another option: While heeling, hold treat from teeth to encourage facial focus.

 

Enjoy your new boy!

[cleptogrey]

eye contact and watching generally is taught in a calm quiet environment. i have participated w/ my dogs in obedience training for many of my dog owning years. it sounds as if an experience trainer(not petco or petsmart classes) will easily walk you and your pup thru many of the things you wish to achieve. check out the akc site as well as apdt association. both have resources that you will be able to contact and find a "certified trainer". do remember not all trainers/schools are equal but it's always good to have someone you can speak w/ and show your concerns to locally.

 

try teaching touch to your dog. i'm sure you can find a video on youtube which will demonstate it. basically you can have a small paper plate or plastic lid or even your hand- and hold it and stay touch when your dog goes near it to smell it. when they touch it treat and praise.(you can cheat the first time and have a tad of peanut butter on the object for him to lick and quick get the touch action,but i generally don't lure them i wait.) to get a click from a clicker in while you are holding the dog,treat and hand/object it's a tad confusing. but when he gets the touch- it's pretty easy and he has started to pay attention to you! then move your hand and eventually bring it up near your head(you will be kneeling). once he focuses then lines of communication are open. be patient and work with someone. it sounds easy, it is, but it can also be confusing. everything else will unfold and techniques developed to get exactly what you want.

 

oh, i just noticed that you are from canada- canadian kennel club and you will have to research dog trainers.

Edited March 7, 2012 by cleptogrey

[rschultz]

You can also try to teach the "eye or watch me" command" Two weeks is a short time. Keep practicing and repetition is always helpful too.

[Guest DragonflyDM]

I am still working with Boomer to get him to be a "dog" but I will tell you what has worked with me.

 

1. Lots of attention

2. Find the treats that REALLY excite him more than anything and use it

a. Whenever I offer a treat, I give a short "hup" noise (I can never find a clicker)

b. Eventually when I call "hup" he will associate it with his treats

c. I hold the treat just in front of my nose so he knows to look at me.

d. I then move the treat away to the side and prompt him with his name till he looks at me for 2-5 seconds (at first)

e. When he has completed the task, I say "hup" again as I feed him.

f. I have him up to 10 seconds in two weeks, and we use the same technique with a single finger and the word "stay" (I can now go upstairs quickly if I need something without him following)

g. We are starting "leave it" and practicing "hup" tag with my daughter (she is on one side of the room and I am on the other and we call to him), because he is a table surfer and Boomer sees my daughter as "number 3" in the house to his perceived "number 2" status.

 

I can tell you now that he looks to me when he wants something. He doesn't know a lot but he knows that he needs to acknowledge me and wait before I will give him something.

 

Honestly, when I say it took about two weeks, that was 10 minutes an hour for ever hour I was up those days. I suspect it will take months before he really gets that my daughter is number 2 in the house because she doesn't put in the time. And it will be even longer before "leave it" really sinks in as a logical request.

 

Right now, Boomer doesn't get excited by other dogs but he is curious. Nevertheless, everytime he is near a dog there is a risk of him getting scared and barking-- so I watch him. His tail goes up when he is uncomfortable and I just pay attention and redirect his attention (with a treat or a project). Does your dog have any "tells?"