He's Destroying The House!

[Echobelly1]

This is our fourth greyhound, a sweet 2 year old boy. He's never had an accident in the house, walks well on leash, loves everyone he meets, pretty perfect. Except when he's left alone. I've never been through this with our other dogs. I work out of our home, so he's only alone at the most a couple of hours in the morning when I do errands. I take him for a long walk in the woods to tire him out before I leave. We started crating him, but it quickly became obvious he was going to hurt himself trying to get out of the crate (it's a heavy steel wire one, and he was able to bend the door and almost get it open. He also shredded the pad every day. We decided to try leaving him contained in just a couple rooms in the house with a muzzle. That seemed to help a little, but then he decided to shred every window blind. Even leaving them open didn't help, he would jump up and pull them down. He got through a window screen that the window was accidentally left open and we found him in the yard when we got home. The yard is fenced, but he had chewed the wood gate and tried to get through the deer wire between the slats. We've had him four months. Now I leave him in my office, where he spends most of the day with me, and he has french doors to look out of. That seemed to help for a couple of days. Then he started chewing on the mullions on the door (he's pretty much destroyed it). He won't let me put the muzzle on him anymore. The last time I tried he growled and snapped at me, and it was obvious a bite was imminent (the only time he's done that). This morning I got home and he chewed more of the door, tore down the curtains and chewed them up. I've tried kongs and even rawhide chews, but he ignores them till I get home. Often there's a puddle of drool by the door from his panting. Is it time for medication? I'd really like to be able to go out without coming home to all this damage, or an injured dog (he seems to be accident prone, he's gotten completely tangled in the cord from the blinds to the point of cutting himself, and the other day got tangled in the christmas lights on the fence. We took out health insurance on him).

[TheFullHouse]

So you have no other dogs in the home at the present time? It sounds like he has a major case of separation anxiety. Hopefully someone will come on here with some advice. I have so many they keep each other company when I go out so I'm of no help to you at all. I wish you luck though!

 

An idea about the muzzle, can you put a stool guard in it, give him a treat and while he is chewing the treat, put the muzzle on him to prevent the chewing?

[Guest verthib]

Give him a treat and while he's distracted, slip the muzzle on. He is growling because he can sense your hesitation. You are alpha and if it's safer to have the muzzle on him, you need to do it. I put stool guards on mine so they can't really destroy anything unless they head-butt it which they don't do too often. Can you gate him in a room that's dog proofed? No blinds within reach, nothing that can hurt him? I feel for you! What about getting a second grey? That was the only way my girl's separation anxiety was relieved. It changed her overnight.

[Echobelly1]

We've usually had two at a time, but we recently moved to a much smaller house, and there really isn't space for two dog beds in every room. My wife wants a second one, but I'm the one that's home most of the time caring for the dog, and I have nightmares that I'd end up with two that had separation anxiety. I've read all of Patricia McConnel's books (unfortunately the dog hasn't) and practice her methods best I can. We've also tried the anxiety wrap (not designed for long-legged greyhounds. You practically have to dislocate their shoulders to get it on. It left all three of us screaming). We tried the Thunder wrap. That was easy to put on, but had no effect on the dog, other than making him too hot (we live in souther FL). I'm tempted to leave him in the yard when I go out, at least he won't do any more damage in the house. I just worry he might get out, even though we've got new cattle fence all around. We've got 1 1/2 acres in a rural area, but if he got out, who knows what trouble he'd get in. He is chipped and has a tag with the address and my cell # on it.

[Guest Tiptons_Mom]

Yikes, it sounds like you have your hands full. I am no expert, but the drool at the door and the destruction of doors and windows tells me that it is SA.

I had a similar issue (noted in another thread) and I was told to read the book "I'll be home soon" and this was a great help.

I was able to institute a few of the things immediately and then with some hard work get him to be okay while we are gone. He is crated while we are gone for the safety of my cats and to keep him from getting into too much trouble. He can be destructive. I have seen a HUGE improvement in his reaction and behavior while in the crate and alone.

 

I also used the "crate game" with him. I spent about a week (many many times per day) playing this game. I take a high value treat (liver muffins) toss a piece in the crate and say crate. When he goes in to get it, I praise and treat him again while in the crate (door open), I repeated this 4-5 times per session. After a few days of this, I would on occasion close the door and treat/praise again. Sometimes I would leave him in the crate for a few mins and just move about the house normally, and then release him. He now is to the point where he will go to the crate on command and it seems as though he associates good things with his crate. He does not sleep in his crate, nor does he go in there unless told, but he is no longer painfully unhappy in there.

 

I use Skype to check in on him during the day, and now instead of crying and howling all day, he is content to empty his kong of PB and nap the day away.

I hope to one day free him from the crate during the day but we are not there yet.

 

There are many many great recourses here on this site, so keep reading and working. It will get better.

Best of luck.

[GeorgeofNE]

Oh dear.

 

No, you can't leave him in the yard. I understand he's doing damage--I feel your pain, I do, but he could end up killing himself outside.

 

A chip and a tag don't help if your dog runs in front of a car.

 

I'm so sorry this is going on. My dog had SA when I got him, but he was just LOUD, not destructive.

 

You said you're READ the books; have you don't the alone training? If you're home "most of the time" it seems like you could give it a good go??

[Echobelly1]

Yikes, it sounds like you have your hands full. I am no expert, but the drool at the door and the destruction of doors and windows tells me that it is SA.

I had a similar issue (noted in another thread) and I was told to read the book "I'll be home soon" and this was a great help.

I was able to institute a few of the things immediately and then with some hard work get him to be okay while we are gone. He is crated while we are gone for the safety of my cats and to keep him from getting into too much trouble. He can be destructive. I have seen a HUGE improvement in his reaction and behavior while in the crate and alone.

 

I also used the "crate game" with him. I spent about a week (many many times per day) playing this game. I take a high value treat (liver muffins) toss a piece in the crate and say crate. When he goes in to get it, I praise and treat him again while in the crate (door open), I repeated this 4-5 times per session. After a few days of this, I would on occasion close the door and treat/praise again. Sometimes I would leave him in the crate for a few mins and just move about the house normally, and then release him. He now is to the point where he will go to the crate on command and it seems as though he associates good things with his crate. He does not sleep in his crate, nor does he go in there unless told, but he is no longer painfully unhappy in there.

 

I use Skype to check in on him during the day, and now instead of crying and howling all day, he is content to empty his kong of PB and nap the day away.

I hope to one day free him from the crate during the day but we are not there yet.

 

There are many many great recourses here on this site, so keep reading and working. It will get better.

Best of luck.

 

We did the crate game. He never had a fear of the crate, he got treats in it. All his toys were kept in it and he'd go in and out during the day to retrieve them. He would go in easily and be given a treat when I would shut the door. He would spend all his time trying to get out. When we came home to bloody paws, we realized the crate wasn't working.

[TheFullHouse]

If you're not totally opposed to another, get a confident female. You may find that is exactly what your boy needs. As far as two beds in every room, doesn't happen around here. I have too many! You may find that both dogs will share one bed if that is an issue. If you get a confident female, she may be content to lay in another room part of the time. I've had 3 confident females and they didn't care if they were in the same room with me or not.

 

No way would I leave him outside. He could either dig under the fence or jump over it and then you have a loose dog who can get hit by a car or worse.

[Echobelly1]

Oh dear.

 

No, you can't leave him in the yard. I understand he's doing damage--I feel your pain, I do, but he could end up killing himself outside.

 

A chip and a tag don't help if your dog runs in front of a car.

 

I'm so sorry this is going on. My dog had SA when I got him, but he was just LOUD, not destructive.

 

You said you're READ the books; have you don't the alone training? If you're home "most of the time" it seems like you could give it a good go??

 

We've spent many days coming and going for longer periods, ignoring him each time. It would seem to work for a day or two, and then I'd come home to doorknobs chewed, claw marks down the walls, etc. The house is pretty much as dog proof as possible and still be livable. The odd thing is, Hadji isn't really a velcro dog. He often asks to be let in the house if I'm working in the yard, and if my wife and I are sitting on the patio after dinner, he often waits at the door to be let in so he can go to bed.

[TheFullHouse]

He's not used to being totally alone. In the kennel when the trainer left there were still other dogs there. It didn't matter that they couldn't interact, they were there and he wasn't alone. When you leave, he's totally alone and can't deal well with it.

[Echobelly1]

If you're not totally opposed to another, get a confident female. You may find that is exactly what your boy needs. As far as two beds in every room, doesn't happen around here. I have too many! You may find that both dogs will share one bed if that is an issue. If you get a confident female, she may be content to lay in another room part of the time. I've had 3 confident females and they didn't care if they were in the same room with me or not.

 

No way would I leave him outside. He could either dig under the fence or jump over it and then you have a loose dog who can get hit by a car or worse.

 

Right now another grey is out of the question. When we had two at a time, it tripled the work. They couldn't be fed at the same time or in the same room,I had to build a divider in the back seat so there wouldn't be a fight over who was taking up too much space, they never really seemed to like each other, and I'm not at the point where I want to risk making more problems. Believe me, if this had been our first greyhound, it would definitely have been our last. Luckily our first 3 never had separation anxiety, even though they all came straight from the track.

[Guest BrianRke]

He's not used to being totally alone. In the kennel when the trainer left there were still other dogs there. It didn't matter that they couldn't interact, they were there and he wasn't alone. When you leave, he's totally alone and can't deal well with it.

I had Diamond for about a year before I brought Daytona and Frank home. I had been worried she wouldnt tolerate another dog in the house. I was very wrong. Diamond had always had SA, bad SA and after the arrival of the two boys, the SA all but disappeared. These dogs are not used to being alone, ever. If I had it to do over again, I would have gotten her a buddy or two much earlier than I did.

[Wonder]

Lena had really bad SA (like yours, destroyed crates, rooms, etc) and because of this was returned by 2 different families. She was an only hound in those homes.

 

I've had her 6 months and she's gotten so much better with my hounds. She's actually normal now and doesn't have any SA anymore.

[Guest Greyt_dog_lover]

As GeorgeofNE asked,

 

have you done any alone training? You did some crate training, but what about just basic alone training? It would seem that your boy may not understand his place in the house (the growling with the muzzle). It seems from just the short answers you are giving is that this boy doesnt really see you as the boss right now. If he did, there would be no growling when you try to put a muzzle on him. I just re-read another of your postings. You say you had other hounds in the past that would fight and have issues. Please dont take this the wrong way, but it seems that you may not really understand how to be the "alpha". Yes, there are times when hounds grumble and even fights, but fighting is very rare, especially if you have a household where everyone knows their places. I would suggest obedience classes (this will help with the position question, as well as hopefully give him some confidence when you are not around). I would also suggest you invest in a "lure pole" and before you know you are going to leave, take him out in the yard and give him a good 15 minutes of lure training. Above all, I would do serious alone training, as well as reading and implimenting the book "Leader of the pack". Good luck.

 

Chad

Edited December 21, 2011 by Greyt_dog_lover

[Guest KennelMom]

Some dogs are just not "only dogs"...and I don't believe in shoving a square peg into a round hole, esp with medication. Sometimes, not every dog/human pairing is a good match. I definitely got some warning bells going off when you said he's growling/snapping if you try to put his muzzle on. Something is definitely not right. Have you been in contact with your adoption group?

 

And if you had so much trouble with two greyhounds, something tells me you need a VERY easy keeper of a dog. This may just not be the right dog for you.

Edited December 21, 2011 by KennelMom

[greysmom]

I you have given all non-medical behavior modification techniques a sincere and consistent try with no improvement, then you are at the point of either adopting (or fostering) a second dog, or consulting with your vet or certified animal behaviorist regarding presciption medication. The odds of having two dogs with this level of SA are very low. If you decide to go this route, make sure you consult with your adoption group about why you're considering a second adoption, and they can help match you with a confident second dog.

 

Your comments about everything you had to do when you had two seem odd. It can happen that two dogs don't get along, but the measures you had to go through seem extreme. I have five dogs that eat together in a 10 x 10 foot space. I monitor them, but there's no need for separation between them for there not to be fighting over meals. Additionally, I have as many as four greyhounds in the back of my Prius (with muzzles), and there has never been anything other than some grumbling when somebody got stepped on. I expect my dogs to live together and to get along, and I enforce the rules that make that happen.

 

If you decide to try them, SA drugs are not magical pills that will instantly make his problems disappear. They help him keep himself calm, and put his brain in a state where it is more receptive to behavior modification and training. All the work you've done previously will need to be begun again once the drugs have started taking effect.

 

There are several different types and classes of drugs that are available. Some are fast-acting with a short life in the body - like xanax and valium. Others work on the chemistry in the brain and are called SSRI's - drugs like prozac and paxil. Tricyclic antidepressants are also prescribed sometimes (anapril, I think). Both these last two classes of drugs take between 4-6 weeks of dosing to build up a clinical level in the body. It can take some time of trial and error to discover the dosage and the drug or combination of drugs that your dog needs. Or, you could find the right one first time and be set. You won't know until you try it out.

 

Please don't leave him outside. A greyhound can easily scale a 6 foot fence, or dig under, and be out a lost sooner than you can imagine. If he is that frantic when you are gone, it's time to get serious about finding a way to help him AND you find a solution.

[Wonder]

Have you tried DAP?

[Guest KennelMom]

We've usually had two at a time, but we recently moved to a much smaller house, and there really isn't space for two dog beds in every room. My wife wants a second one, but I'm the one that's home most of the time caring for the dog, and I have nightmares that I'd end up with two that had separation anxiety. I've read all of Patricia McConnel's books (unfortunately the dog hasn't) and practice her methods best I can. We've also tried the anxiety wrap (not designed for long-legged greyhounds. You practically have to dislocate their shoulders to get it on. It left all three of us screaming). We tried the Thunder wrap. That was easy to put on, but had no effect on the dog, other than making him too hot (we live in souther FL). I'm tempted to leave him in the yard when I go out, at least he won't do any more damage in the house. I just worry he might get out, even though we've got new cattle fence all around. We've got 1 1/2 acres in a rural area, but if he got out, who knows what trouble he'd get in. He is chipped and has a tag with the address and my cell # on it.

 

 

more red flags here. Please don't dump him in the back yard. That's the kind of dog that gets rescued a year or more from now and goes on the "unadoptable list" for an adoption group b/c the dog is so severely broken that most foster homes can't even deal with it. Our house is already full of dogs that were broken really good by people and then, of course, blamed b/c they (the dog) didn't "read the book." Putting him outside isn't solving anything and it could get him killed, hurt or lost. Depending on the group you got him from, you may be violating your promise to the group.

Edited December 21, 2011 by KennelMom

[Echobelly1]

We've usually had two at a time, but we recently moved to a much smaller house, and there really isn't space for two dog beds in every room. My wife wants a second one, but I'm the one that's home most of the time caring for the dog, and I have nightmares that I'd end up with two that had separation anxiety. I've read all of Patricia McConnel's books (unfortunately the dog hasn't) and practice her methods best I can. We've also tried the anxiety wrap (not designed for long-legged greyhounds. You practically have to dislocate their shoulders to get it on. It left all three of us screaming). We tried the Thunder wrap. That was easy to put on, but had no effect on the dog, other than making him too hot (we live in souther FL). I'm tempted to leave him in the yard when I go out, at least he won't do any more damage in the house. I just worry he might get out, even though we've got new cattle fence all around. We've got 1 1/2 acres in a rural area, but if he got out, who knows what trouble he'd get in. He is chipped and has a tag with the address and my cell # on it.

 

 

more red flags here. Please don't dump him in the back yard. That's the kind of dog that gets rescued a year or more from now and goes on the "unadoptable list" for an adoption group b/c the dog is so severely broken that most foster homes can't even deal with it. Our house is already full of dogs that were broken really good by people and then, of course, blamed b/c they (the dog) didn't "read the book." Putting him outside isn't solving anything and it could get him killed, hurt or lost. Depending on the group you got him from, you may be violating your promise to the group.

[Echobelly1]

We practice "alone" time pretty much every day, for increasing amounts of time. Occasionally he seems to be better. I was a little surprised at the response above from someone suggesting I need to assume the "Alpha" position. Other than Cesar, most respected dog trainers have discounted this approach. I'm also surprised at someone accusing me of "dumping" the dog in the yard. I'm trying to find an area where the dog is most comfortable. I was hoping he would feel that outside in a fenced in area. Unfortunately, that doesn't seem to be the case. Remember, I live in a very rural area of FL. on a dirt road. Many of my neighbor's dogs have never been in the house. They think we're nuts for only walking the dog on leash (never mind actually walking the dog!), and picking up after him. As for our last two dogs, both went through obedience training, they both happened to also be very bitchy females. It happens, and you don't know till you've got them. Our lives right now are controlled by the dog. We don't go out to dinner on weekends anymore because we don't know what we'll find when we get back. We are planning on going out Christmas eve, but I'm sure will be worried the whole time. I've been active with greyhound groups for 20 years, read and practice what I learn in some of the better dog training books. The first dog I got straight off the track, had been badly beaten, wouldn't let a human near it. I worked with it daily, it took two years, but eventually became a loving dog that enjoyed meeting strangers. My last greyhound had his therapy certification and regularly visited nursing homes. I was hoping someone on this forum would have some miracle advice, as I've so often gotten in the past. I think what's best for the dog at this point is to get a mild tranquilizer from the vet, use it until he seems to have adjusted to being alone, and slowly ween him off.

[Houndtime]

Have you tried any medication; prescription or over the counter? Melatonin, rescue remedy or Prozac? What about a DAP diffuser? Anything lilac scented like a candle or room spray.

 

I realize that he is ruining your house, and that is difficult for sure, but I don't see where you have taken a lot of steps for adjustment. He may just be a dog who can't be alone and that is sad for you.

 

I am sorry that you are having so much hardship with him. We had a lot of trouble with Brandy, our first grey. She was an only dog for about a year. She ripped up bedding, peed and pooped, and destroyed two crates. We had a communicator speak with her and ask her if she wanted to live someplace else and she said no. She said she needed time to adjust. The day we brought John E home, all the inappropriate behavior stopped.

 

I wish you and him the best of luck.

Edited December 21, 2011 by Houndtime

[Guest KennelMom]

As for our last two dogs, both went through obedience training, they both happened to also be very bitchy females. It happens, and you don't know till you've got them.

 

Yeah...I've owned up to 20 dogs. At once. Mostly females. Many of whom were aggression cases either at home or at the track. At least one was going to be euthanized b/c her aggression to humans and dogs was "uncontrollable"...so, I'm pretty sure I know about aggression. Maybe you just got the oooooooooooooooooooonly two "truly" bitchy females. But I doubt it.

 

I understand your frustration...We tend to take the dogs that have no place else to go, so I've know what it's like to be at the end of one's rope. Several have been and still are a challenge. If a dog if freaking out alone inside, they will most likely freak out alone outside.

 

Drugs can be a useful adjunct to training methods, but they are not usually a quick fix or the dog has to be drugged to an unacceptable (to me) state. Like I said...perhaps this is just not a good match. It happens and there's nothing wrong with admitting such. Since you clearly have so much experience and success training greyhounds in the past, do you not think that perhaps that's the case here? We all have our strengths and weaknesses...We're good with aggressive dogs. Other behavior issues wouldn't necessarily be our forte.

Edited December 21, 2011 by KennelMom

[Guest Greyt_dog_lover]

Hmmmm 20 years of experience with greyhounds, owned a "severely beaten" greyhound (of course thats why the hound wouldn't approach particular people), thinks "leader of the pack" by Patricia McDonald is equal to Ceasar's practices, thinks that leaving a greyhound in a fenced yard is acceptable, wants a quick fix...

 

wow, my tongue is bleeding right now from me biting it...

[Guest happygrey]

With this level of destructive behavior I would try Reconcile. It's basically doggie prozac. Continue with the along training. I think that the Reconcile might work better than tranquilizers.

 

We used it with our hound who was destructive with SA when we first got him. With a lot of routine and time he did get over it. But I should add that we are a three hound household. Our formerly SA hound likes to be with the other hounds pretty much all the time. Only one of ours is a truly confident dog who's fine with spending hours by himself. (He often goes upstairs to our bedroom to rest on his bed for hours at a time with no people or dogs around.)

 

You may want to see if you can find a friend who could watch him on Xmas eve. Or, if the weather isn't too hot or cold could you bring him with you? Our dog with SA did better in the car when I had to leave him for short periods of time.

Edited December 22, 2011 by happygrey

[Batmom]

I know you're attached to this dog, but consider him. It might be kinder to return him to the adoption group and take on one who thrives as an only.