Rabies Vaccine Vs. Rabies Titers?

[duncan41]

My two cents - I wouldn't pay that much money for titers. A positive titer indicates an immune response, but a negative titer does not necessarily mean your dog is not protected so you could in theory pay all of that money and then still need to vaccinate to assuage the law. Good information hereabout vaccinations, the first article, "Titers: What do they tell us" should be particularly useful.

 

The general presumption for those of us who choose not to follow vaccine protocols after a certain point is that the dog does not require revaccination every year or every 3 years in order to be protected, but rather that as with human vaccines the initial series provides protection for life (not talking about things like the flu vaccine here in case that isn't obvious). Unless you titered in the appropriate timeframe shortly after administering the puppy series, there's no way to confirm this so you need to decide whether you feel confident the booster isn't needed.

 

I personally stopped doing anything but rabies once Neyla reached a certain age (around 9 or 10), and did the rabies only because it is required by law. If she had been due for rabies after she was diagnosed with cancer, I would have asked my vet to write a letter excusing us from getting the vaccine at that point, but in her case she wasn't due.

 

I had the titer discussion with a Vet a number of years ago and he said the same thing about the varying immunity on any given day.

Dee, interestingly enough, I have had the opportunity to ask your question to two Vets in my area and their responses were "I have two indoor cats who have NEVER had vaccinations and my wife's dog is too old now, but we used to titer." , and "I only give my dog rabies ever three years because of my son and his friends. I titer for everything else.". The conversations continued with the distinct message that mandatory yearly vaccinations were the only way of insuring that clients would bring their pets to the office for a check up. In our area, more practices are instituting yearly "Wellness Packages" which are deeply discounted for vaccinations, heartworm and flea/tick meds, nail clippings and grooming. I can see where that would be a win-win-win situation for the pet, owner and Vet. For us do-it-yourselfers, not so much, but for almost everyone I know, it's a great deal.

[Remolacha]

My dogs are 9.75, 9.5, and 7.75. Molly had her three year rabies this year, and I won't do it again at 12 if she is still with me. Fletcher is due this year, and I will give him the three year rabies, but again, that will be the last one. I'm not sure when Sallie is due again, but she will get one more, then stop. I've stopped all the others as well. They aren't exposed, and after 10 or so, I just don't think it's necessary. (No, I don't get a flu shot for me, either )

 

The only thing that might change my mind if I were in your situation is the wildlife. I think you live in a fairly rural area? What are then encounters with local wildlife like? Incidents of rabies in your area?

[Batmom]

Unless you titered in the appropriate timeframe shortly after administering the puppy series, there's no way to confirm this so you need to decide whether you feel confident the booster isn't needed.

 

Most illnesses that we (and dogs) are vaccinated for, a measurable, significant titer remains for some years. At least you hope it does. Circulating antibody (the titer) means that you can respond to an encounter with the illness very promptly.

 

The biggest problem with canine titering is, in most cases nobody really knows what the titers mean. Not enough study. We're still catching up on that with people diseases (figuring out what level of titer is indicative of protection). Immunology is murderously complex .........

 

Benadryl premed worked perfectly for my one vaccine-reactive dog, but she never had any systemic symptoms, just localized pain and swelling for longer than I felt appropriate.

[gr8kids]

Titering is questionable in regards to what the results really mean. However, of all the vaccines, the rabies one is the worse one to give your pet b/c of the live serum. I have a greyhound that I just rescued the end of Aug that was spayed and had all her shots at the same time including the 3 yr rabies...and a month later all her glands were swollen and diagnosed with lymphoma. I know she had the cancer in her before the vaccines. The vaccines, b/c of the havoc to her surpressed immune system, caused this to progress. The vet if he had any idea of her having the cancer never would have vaccinated her. I have been to a couple of Jean Dodds seminars and she is in the process of finishing up or close to it, her research on 5 yr rabies and also working on 7 yrs. As she says once the dog has been vaccinated with it, they cont to have it in their system, so why cont to challenge their immune system everytime you vaccinate(for the government). If you still do choose to vaccinate, she doesn't recommend doing all of them in the same visit. Just some thoughts to think about, and I recommend all to check out Jean Dodds. She is an amazing lady and vet and is the one to go to for hypothyroid issues. She also has an easy testing with dog saliva for allergies that is $45. She is greyhound savy, she has her own rescue down in Garden Grove, CA. I wish she had her facility close by for I would take my dogs to her.

 

I will also say the cost of your titers, is outragous...they should not be that much.

 

I personally will not vaccinate my dogs when at geriatric age due to the supressed immune system. They do not get bordered and not close to wildlife.

 

Tough decision to make, but look at the options and the possible outcomes.

[Guest Energy11]

Titering is questionable in regards to what the results really mean. However, of all the vaccines, the rabies one is the worse one to give your pet b/c of the live serum. I have a greyhound that I just rescued the end of Aug that was spayed and had all her shots at the same time including the 3 yr rabies...and a month later all her glands were swollen and diagnosed with lymphoma. I know she had the cancer in her before the vaccines. The vaccines, b/c of the havoc to her surpressed immune system, caused this to progress. The vet if he had any idea of her having the cancer never would have vaccinated her. I have been to a couple of Jean Dodds seminars and she is in the process of finishing up or close to it, her research on 5 yr rabies and also working on 7 yrs. As she says once the dog has been vaccinated with it, they cont to have it in their system, so why cont to challenge their immune system everytime you vaccinate(for the government). If you still do choose to vaccinate, she doesn't recommend doing all of them in the same visit. Just some thoughts to think about, and I recommend all to check out Jean Dodds. She is an amazing lady and vet and is the one to go to for hypothyroid issues. She also has an easy testing with dog saliva for allergies that is $45. She is greyhound savy, she has her own rescue down in Garden Grove, CA. I wish she had her facility close by for I would take my dogs to her.

 

I will also say the cost of your titers, is outragous...they should not be that much.

 

I personally will not vaccinate my dogs when at geriatric age due to the supressed immune system. They do not get bordered and not close to wildlife.

 

Tough decision to make, but look at the options and the possible outcomes.

Thanks for this post! Dr. Dodds basically saved my Goldie last year at this time. SHE looked at Goldie's T-4, and determined she did, indeed, need thyriod supplementation. Goldie is still with me this Christmas, because of Dr. Jean Dodds! I, too, wish she were closer by. Greyhound savvy vets in my area, are few and far between. My vet is older, and has been given all the GH info, but ... Anyway, I do live in a very rural area with bears, racoons, etc., BUT, mine are never out of their pens, and we always go out with them, even at night. I have pretty much decided against the Rabies vaccine this Spring. They don't board, and we no longer attend GH events... they are getting to old. Good luck, and thanks again!

[Batmom]

the rabies one is the worse one to give your pet b/c of the live serum. ... The vaccines, b/c of the havoc to her surpressed immune system, caused this to progress. The vet if he had any idea of her having the cancer never would have vaccinated her.

 

The rabies vaccine isn't normally live virus. IIRC the most common 3-years are inactivated.

 

It's hard to see how the vaccine could have anything to do with her cancer, unless she had a solid tumor at the vaccination site. The cells that respond to a vaccine and the cells that might respond to a cancerous area are quite different. In addition, in a suppressed immune system, there is by definition no response to most vaccines.

 

I am sorry for your pup's diagnosis.

Edited December 11, 2011 by Batmom

[JJNg]

All of the modern canine rabies vaccines that I'm aware of are killed/inactivated. "Live serum" is no longer used, and hasn't been for years.

 

Also, while I know that there are many who highly respect Dr. Dodds, her views on vaccines and thyroid function are not mainstream and not what most specialists in those fields (immunologists, endocrinologists) believe. I think the verdict is still out on which views are more accurate.

[Guest KennelMom]

I wouldn't waste money on a titer. I'd just vaccinate for rabies as required by law and be done with it. The only reason I wouldn't vaccinate, would be a pre-existing medical condition that precluded a specific dog from being vaccinated. The danger isn't always your dog getting out, but critters getting IN. Esp raccoons! We live in the country and being exposed to wildlife, even in our own backyard, is always a risk.

 

You can find horror stories from dogs getting any type of shot or given any type of drug, no matter how benign it's supposed to be.

Edited December 12, 2011 by KennelMom

[tbhounds]

I wouldn't waste money on a titer. I'd just vaccinate for rabies as required by law and be done with it. The only reason I wouldn't vaccinate, would be a pre-existing medical condition that precluded a specific dog from being vaccinated. The danger isn't always your dog getting out, but critters getting IN. Esp raccoons! We live in the country and being exposed to wildlife, even in our own backyard, is always a risk.

 

You can find horror stories from dogs getting any type of shot or given any type of drug, no matter how benign it's supposed to be.

Yup!

 

All of the modern canine rabies vaccines that I'm aware of are killed/inactivated. "Live serum" is no longer used, and hasn't been for years.

 

Also, while I know that there are many who highly respect Dr. Dodds, her views on vaccines and thyroid function are not mainstream and not what most specialists in those fields (immunologists, endocrinologists) believe. I think the verdict is still out on which views are more accurate.

Yup too!

[robinw]

I vaccinate.seems like too much of a risk to the dog not to, plus we cross the border a lot and proof of rabies vaccine is required.

[NeylasMom]

 

You can find horror stories from dogs getting any type of shot or given any type of drug, no matter how benign it's supposed to be.

There are documented risks of side effects with vaccines, and the risk increases with an increased number of vaccinations given at the same time so it's not just a question of shrugging off a few "horror stories" and getting the vaccines. Although when you said horror stories, maybe you were just referring to stories like the one above about the dog with lymphoma.

[Guest KennelMom]

 

You can find horror stories from dogs getting any type of shot or given any type of drug, no matter how benign it's supposed to be.

There are documented risks of side effects with vaccines, and the risk increases with an increased number of vaccinations given at the same time so it's not just a question of shrugging off a few "horror stories" and getting the vaccines. Although when you said horror stories, maybe you were just referring to stories like the one above about the dog with lymphoma.

 

 

Considering the sheer number of dogs and cats that are vaccinated every day, the number of bad reactions are pretty few and far between. There are documented risks for just about everything, including most medications we give our dogs. I'm not saying a vaccine is totally "risk free"...it's not. For people or dogs. But with respect to rabies and considering the law, I just won't take that chance. I'm comfortable with the three year protocol that is accepted in most states now.