Licking More Following Food Switch

[a_daerr]

About six weeks ago, I had a conversation with my trainer regarding food. Henry had been eating Science Diet Lamb and Rice for about a year. No real problems with the food- it's just that I started doing more research and discovered I'd been paying $50 a bag for low quality food made with high amounts of corn meal. I made the decision to switch Henry to Taste of the Wild (High Prairie) for nutritional reasons. It was a VERY gradual switch that lasted several weeks- I started using the TOTW as treats, then slowly followed the 25% 50% 75% plan while closely monitoring poops. Now we are 100% on TOTW and he devours the food at mealtimes (he never did that with Science Diet). However, I am starting to notice that he is licking more. He licks his paws, legs, bum. I hear him licking in the middle of the night, and I don't feel like he ever did that before. I also feel like his teeth have gotten noticeably more gunked up after switching (I'm now doing Petzlife twice a day in addition to more frequent brushing and CET chews). I'm reluctant to switch to a different food again, considering this was such a process. I'm wondering if this is a normal adjustment period or if I should switch again? If so, should it be a different brand altogether? Go back to Science Diet? Stay on TOTW but with a different protein source? Any input is appreciated.

[Batmom]

If he was doing better on the SD, I'd switch him back to it. You don't have to take that long to switch, especially since you already know he does well on it. I either just switch, or do it over 3-4 days (so I can stop and pick something else if digestive intolerance occurs).

 

A dog can be allergic or intolerant to *anything* in a food, isn't necessarily the meats.

 

If I'm feeding a kibble with lower protein than I like for the dog, I reduce the amount of kibble and add an egg, hamburger, etc. to one or both meals. Best of both worlds.

[cleptogrey]

sounds like he is reacting to an ingredient in totw. it's funny to read your post since my vet just said to me,"i've been feeding my dogs science diet and they all live to 15! what's up w/ all of these designer foods?". i just switched the pups over to a moderate food from a premium, watching and waiting, i shall see. i agree w/ batmom's response 100%.

[Guest KennelMom]

agree with the others...sounds like he is reacting to an ingredient in the food. I'd switch him back to what worked before or maybe try a different formula of TOTW or a different brand of food. When we fed kibble, we had some dogs that got licky/itchy/bity/red on the Pacific Stream, but did fine on High Prairie so every dog can be different in what they can tolerate. Right now we have a dog on TOTW Pacific Stream or Nature's Domain Salmon b/c she's allergic to chicken, which is the basis of the raw diet we feed everyone else.

[JohnF]

Switch back if he was happy with it, or try to work out which ingredient is causing the irritation and maybe get a different flavor.

My dog can't tolerate expensive Lamb and rice kibble or Beef.

And isn't it irritating that dogs live to a ripe old age on junk like chappie

[Guest sirsmom]

I agree with the above; it could be any ingredient in the food. I would switch back also. The ingredient that's bothering him is probably something used in all the TOTW formulas. We tried most of the high end foods at one time or another and have gone back to Pro Plan/Purina One or Iams/Eukanuba. My vet is not big on the 'designer' foods either and always suggests, Pro Plan Eukanuba or Science Diet for best results. As Batmom says, if you think your dog is missing out on something you can add hamburger, cottage cheese etc. or even a tablespoon of canned food and just call it a day.

[a_daerr]

Alright, I think what I'm going to do is try a bag of the TOTW Sierra Mountain. It's made with lamb, which is the same protein source that he was on before. If he still has problems, I'll switch back to Science Diet. I hope I ultimately don't have to go back to SD because (even though I had no health concerns), Henry didn't seem crazy about eating it. It was like "eh" take it or leave it. I will say that it's funny how so much literature is out there regarding food quality- everything is pushing for the grain-free diets. Maybe it's just a passing phase.

[a_daerr]

Update: I went to the pet food store today (I use a smaller local store in Pittsburgh called Burton's Total Pet). I explained the situation to the manager, and she was SUPER helpful. She said that a lot of dogs have allergies to venison. Natural Balance recently recalled their venison-based food for dogs and cats because it was causing kidney failure. She said the Science Diet is not a "bad" food, but that it has large amounts of corn meal. Apparently, dogs have a difficult time digesting corn products, so it can line the intestines and actually rot. This can lead to cancer in some dogs. So, I decided to use a different formula of TOTW (Sierra Mountain) because it has lamb as the primary protein source. She said the fish-based TOTW is good too, but it has a lot of omega fatty acids that can sometimes cause diarrhea.

 

Also, if anyone is ever looking to switch foods, there is a product you can sprinkle on daily to ease them into the new food. It's called "Holistic Transition" by Eagle Pack.

[Batmom]

Update: I went to the pet food store today (I use a smaller local store in Pittsburgh called Burton's Total Pet). I explained the situation to the manager, and she was SUPER helpful. She said that a lot of dogs have allergies to venison. Natural Balance recently recalled their venison-based food for dogs and cats because it was causing kidney failure. She said the Science Diet is not a "bad" food, but that it has large amounts of corn meal. Apparently, dogs have a difficult time digesting corn products, so it can line the intestines and actually rot. This can lead to cancer in some dogs. So, I decided to use a different formula of TOTW (Sierra Mountain) because it has lamb as the primary protein source. She said the fish-based TOTW is good too, but it has a lot of omega fatty acids that can sometimes cause diarrhea.

 

Also, if anyone is ever looking to switch foods, there is a product you can sprinkle on daily to ease them into the new food. It's called "Holistic Transition" by Eagle Pack.

 

The manager is feeding you a big line of very peculiar bull.

 

Dogs digest cooked (as it is, in kibble), ground corn quite well. It's perhaps the most nutritious carb available. It can't "line the intestines and actually rot" except in the sense that that's what ALL foods do during digestion , and there is no evidence that corn leads to cancer in dogs any more than beef, wheat, marshmallows, or life in general do.

 

There are no current or recent recalls on Natural Balance Venison dog food.

 

Wish I knew where people (that manager, not you) got some of this stuff ......

 

 

 

 

[Guest mcsheltie]

Update: I went to the pet food store today (I use a smaller local store in Pittsburgh called Burton's Total Pet). I explained the situation to the manager, and she was SUPER helpful. She said that a lot of dogs have allergies to venison. Natural Balance recently recalled their venison-based food for dogs and cats because it was causing kidney failure. She said the Science Diet is not a "bad" food, but that it has large amounts of corn meal. Apparently, dogs have a difficult time digesting corn products, so it can line the intestines and actually rot. This can lead to cancer in some dogs. So, I decided to use a different formula of TOTW (Sierra Mountain) because it has lamb as the primary protein source. She said the fish-based TOTW is good too, but it has a lot of omega fatty acids that can sometimes cause diarrhea.

 

Also, if anyone is ever looking to switch foods, there is a product you can sprinkle on daily to ease them into the new food. It's called "Holistic Transition" by Eagle Pack.

I beg to differ with the manager at your store. TOTW Salmon does not contain more Omega 3. It contains their typical .03% the same as Sierra Mountain. Their Wetlands formula has a higher level. All TOTW formulas are very similar. Basically they contain a different protein source.

 

Corn is difficult for most carnivores & omnivores to digest. This includes people. Omnivores need to chew it thoroughly in order for it not to come out the other end whole. Carnivores lack the enzymes in their saliva needed to break down the cell walls. Couple that with pointy teeth and a short digest tract and they are at a disadvantage. But even if digestion is not complete it does not line the intestines and cause cancer. What happens are the nutrients aren't bio-available. The problem lies in the fact that foods like SD rely heavily on the protein content in corn to bring the level up to AAFCO minimum. And if the dog doesn't digest it thoroughly they may also not be getting the nutrients that SD claims it contains.

 

Adding fresh meat as Batmom suggested is a good idea with any diet. But be sure not to supplement more that 25% or you will throw the calcium/phosphorus ratio off.

 

ETA: The recall of Natural Balance products is not current. It occurred in 2007. It was found to contain Melamine. It was a voluntary recall by the company. Melamine was found in the rice protein.

Edited December 4, 2011 by mcsheltie

[a_daerr]

I did find some evidence about the Natural Balance recall.

Lots of differing opinions, but everything I've read about corn meal as a primary ingredient is less than favorable. Dog Food Advisor gives SD 2 stars.

Hopefully Henry does well on the TOTW Sierra Mountain. As a last resort, I'll switch him back.

[Batmom]

The NB recall occurred in 2007, when nearly every pet food manufacturer also had recalls. I think their most recent recall was last year? early this year? and involved one of the chicken-based foods.

[Feisty49]

The more expensive the food -- and that is food highly recommended by my adoption group and other GH people -- the more Annie Bella has diarrhea. It took 2 months of being on a 'script food to get it under control and then trying Iams in the green bag as recommended by a few people here. Each of her meals now consists of half Iams and half prescription. Most days she's great. If I slip her a bully stick as an extra special treat, it comes out very soft.

[GeorgeofNE]

Goodness! If it ain't broke, don't fix it!

 

Millions of dogs have lived quite happily and healthy on foods that many consider "junk."

 

My dog eats TOTW, and does well on it, but if he did best on Dog Chow, that's what I'd feed him!

[greyhoundgang]

From the hundreds of dogs who have passed through Greyhound Gang's doors, I do have some opinions about food.

Here are a few of them. At my talks, food is always a 'hot' topic.

 

- Corn is crap carbo

- Most vets get very few hours of teaching about nutrition.

- Dog food industry is a huge money maker.

- I would never feed Science Diet to my dogs.

- Every dog is an individual, just like humans.

- What goes in, does come out (in health, in skin, in poop) - just like humans

 

I've seen many dogs with allergies to kibble. I believe most of those allergies are grain related, and filler related. I always suggest, if people feed kibble, to give a Fish & Potato. In many cases, the allergies are cleared up. In my opinion, though, raw feeding is the best way to go.

 

I do keep Costco's Salmon kibble on hand for snacking and new dogs.

 

Dog Food Project is one of the best sites about dog nutrition I've seen out there.

Greyhound Gang has lots of info and links about food at Greyhound Gang, LEARN, Medical-Food.

 

Unfortunately, something went wonky, probably by computer, and I can't put links in for some reason in the forum, but happy to provide links if you email me.

[christinepi]

I'm curious about the licking. My dog, who has been on TOTW forever, started licking more recently, too. Since all that ever changes in his food is the protein source in TOTW (I rotate through the flavors), I kind of doubt the licking is related to the food in his case. I'm puzzled by this.

 

Other than that, for what it's worth: I read that often the grains that are used in cheap to medium price dog food aren't rated "human grade". This means that they can contain a lot of molds, which is what the dogs react to as opposed to the actual grains. So when dogs develop allergies it's more likely to the mold rather than to the grains. The higher quality (or pricier) dog foods are more likely to contain higher quality grains (meaning less likely to be moldy, or at least one would hope so).

Edited December 13, 2011 by christinepi