Question For Experienced Dog Trainers

[jetcitywoman]

When we only had Capri, we bought her a couple of the fantastic Nina Ottosson dog puzzles. She loves them and we have a great time playing them with her. When we got Ajax, the puzzles sort of got put away because we don't want them to feel they have to compete for food at home. We did play the Dog Brick with them once together and it was fun and okay, but... well, I don't want them to learn that they have to compete for food. Just seems like a bad thing to me.

 

So I'm wondering... both dogs know "wait", "off" (leave it), and "okay". It seems to me that I could use those commands as a foundation for teaching them to take turns. By taking turns, I mean they each learn how to wait patiently without being physically restrained until it's his/her turn at the game. I tried a little bit, but what I noticed so far was that they don't understand when a command is directed at a specific dog. If I say "wait", they both respond, if I say "okay", they both jump forward. (If I say "Capri, come", Ajax comes a-running. He does know his name, I think he just doesn't want to miss anything.) Has anyone here been able to teach a pair of dogs to take turns? Or more specifically have you been able to teach dogs in a pack how to understand if a command is directed at HIM and not everybody? Any tips for how to accomplish this?

Edited November 29, 2011 by jetcitywoman

[Guest june]

I'd work on them responding only when you call their name. IE: "Capri Come" "Ajax Come" Having a second person that the dogs know and respect help you can make this easier.

 

Putting one dog in another room while you work with the other can help. Look for the dog to respond to the command only when you use its name. All other responses are not acceptable and not rewarded.

 

They already know the commands so they should learn it quickly with gentle but firm reinforcement. It is hard for them because they do want to be involved in everything, but once they know what you want they will be very happy to please you.

 

BTW. Taking turns is a great way to have one-on-one interactions with your pups and reinforce their training.

Edited November 29, 2011 by june

[kudzu]

Yes, but I can't explain how I did it. It just sort of happened. I just say the dog's name & give the command. The other dogs learn that if it wasn't their name then it doesn't apply to them. "Venus wait. Soleil out," leaves Venus waiting inside by the doorway & gets Sol outside. At meal times, "Sol go. Venus sit," gets Sol running to his food stand & Venus sitting next to hers.

 

For the dog puzzle scenario you might try teaching them to maintain their place, like a station. Individually teach them "go to place" or "go mat". This is so they learn to go to their mat & stay there until released. Using a visual, tactile object & a specific behavior expected of them helps them understand what is expected. That makes it easier to teach them to take turns. Once they do well individually it's time to work on go to mat, releasing one but not the other. Don't just jump into the puzzle games if that's really exciting for them. Work on more boring things first until they are consistent before doing more exciting things.

 

Just an idea.

 

ETA: You can also play The Name Game. We do this to reinforce their names but also to teach them better manners with treats. Say dog's name & give a treat. Say other dog's name & give a treat. Our rules include the provision that if a dog is being pushy trying to get the treat that dog will not hear his/her name until he/she backs off a bit. The second that dog backs off I say the name & give a treat. This might help set the stage for taking turns at other times.

Edited November 29, 2011 by kudzu

[GeorgeofNE]

If both dogs know a command, it shouldn't be too difficult to get them to respond to "Capri, wait."

[Fruitycake]

Mostly the same as the above: use the name of one dog and the command and encourage the other to ignore the command word. It took a while (Allie, nongrey, frequently would jump when Monty was given the OK, now it's the other way around and she usually has to be told twice - with her name the second time if it is a general OK release), and for some things they just have different commands completely. When we are on walks and I want Allie to move from where her nose is stuck, for example, it's "All right" and when I want Monty to move it's "Too slow" and when I want them in front of me for Allie it's "Lead on" and for Monty it's "Step up."

 

Either approach works.

[Guest jbbuzby]

They should get it if you do it over and over again. Be sure to use their names in front as others have suggested, but until they get it down, have a leash handy and hold the one whose turn it isn't to *make* them wait their turn. If you did this enough times with the same commands, I'm sure they'd get it down.

[jetcitywoman]

Oh, I like the suggestion to use mats. Combine it with the name game and the other suggestions and that should get me going in the right direction. I could start with name game with them sitting on the mats, and then move away so that each dog has to move forward to get his treat when he's called. It would take a few weeks to get to that stage, of course. Thanks! I'm inspired!

[Guest june]

Training is so much fun. For them and for us! Enjoy yourself and your dogs will too! Always end on a positive note and they will look forward to it.

[cleptogrey]

Yes, but I can't explain how I did it. It just sort of happened. I just say the dog's name & give the command. The other dogs learn that if it wasn't their name then it doesn't apply to them. "Venus wait. Soleil out," leaves Venus waiting inside by the doorway & gets Sol outside. At meal times, "Sol go. Venus sit," gets Sol running to his food stand & Venus sitting next to hers.

 

For the dog puzzle scenario you might try teaching them to maintain their place, like a station. Individually teach them "go to place" or "go mat". This is so they learn to go to their mat & stay there until released. Using a visual, tactile object & a specific behavior expected of them helps them understand what is expected. That makes it easier to teach them to take turns. Once they do well individually it's time to work on go to mat, releasing one but not the other. Don't just jump into the puzzle games if that's really exciting for them. Work on more boring things first until they are consistent before doing more exciting things.

 

Just an idea.

 

ETA: You can also play The Name Game. We do this to reinforce their names but also to teach them better manners with treats. Say dog's name & give a treat. Say other dog's name & give a treat. Our rules include the provision that if a dog is being pushy trying to get the treat that dog will not hear his/her name until he/she backs off a bit. The second that dog backs off I say the name & give a treat. This might help set the stage for taking turns at other times.

sounds like perfect advise, especially the "go to your mat". that's the theory behind control unleashed by leslie mc devitt. when you are doing agility work you pup really learns to focus on you and WAIT and stay calm. it's difficult, but can be done.

[Guest iconsmum]

In a multiple dog situation you can change the actual word so each dog has its own cue- which is easy enough since you begin by training each dog separately anyway - just decide then - that way when you meld back into the group the cue holds up -

[silverfish]

I just wanted to add that people teach dogs to respond only when called by name all the time. Anywhere there are multiple dogs and work going on with those dogs, you need to have them respond only when called.

 

Police dogs, search and rescue dogs, sheepdogs, gundogs - you can't have them all behaving as one in a working situation! I've seen obedience displays, too, with one person working with a line of his or her own dogs and none will move until called by name. I am just so impressed by this because I'm far too lazy to train my dogs to that level. It takes a lot of work.

 

Sheepdog trials particularly fascinate me, the way they work so precisely, and drop to the ground and wait until they are asked to do something else - and all of the other competitors wait patiently by the fence and do not respond to the whistles even though they can all hear them perfectly well and know exactly what they mean. And they can work in pairs and only respond to the whistle which is meant for them - and I have no idea how they do that!

[jetcitywoman]

True, but of course the working breeds have been bred for that. I'm dealing with greyhounds.

 

Ajax actually does want to please me, and if he knows what I want he will do it. His problem is getting to that point -he's a slow learner. Capri on the other hand is clever and learns quickly, but has the classic "what's in it for me?" attitude, so her challenge is to try to avoid bribing her all the time. But then if it wasn't challenging, it wouldn't be as rewarding, right?

[kudzu]

Bribery & paying for a job well done are two different things. To me, bribery is where you have to show the dog the treat & basically beg them to do the command. If you do not display the treat then the dog won't perform. This is usually a result of using food lures to teach the behavior but not fading the treat fast enough.

 

Paying for a job well done is when your dog has done what you requested & then you produce a reward. You get to this point by either not using lures at all or fading them out quickly. Around our house if, in the course of daily living, the dog does something I want to reward they get "Yes!" as the marker & then we make a happy, mad dash to the kitchen for a treat. Running to the kitchen is actually half the fun of the whole thing. In a training session the treats are on a table, shelf, my pocket or a treat bag that is turned around behind me. In all cases it is usually out of sight. The dog knows the treats are there but having the treat in hand is not part of the training so seeing a treat does not become part of the cue.

 

My dogs seem to develop a desire to please me. In my opinion, all dogs have a "what's in it for me" attitude. It's just that some are more easily satisfied with low value rewards like simply getting our attention. Greyhounds have higher standards than that.