Lots Of Urination On New Food

[Guest Lmw626]

The receipt says:

 

Urinalysis (I took them a sample)

X-Rays

OL Biliruben Direct/Indirect

OI Total Body Function SA120 K9

 

Vet said:

 

Creatinine was high.

Biliruben was high.

Thyroid was low.

X-rays of abdomen, kidneys, liver etc. showed no crystals or stones or anything abnormal.

 

I am not sure if the "Total Body Function" blood panel included a full Thyroid or just T4. I will call on Monday to ask.

[Guest Lmw626]

Oh and a couple more things...

 

When I got him in Mar 2010 he was 76 pounds. In June 2011 he was 83.5 pounds. Now he's down to 79 pounds. He had no hair on his throat, stomach or backs of back thighs when I got him and it's a little worse now on the back thighs. The vet said the increase in hair loss was another reason why he thought the thyroid test was valid.

 

He has not been drinking more water. He drinks about 2 quarts a day and that's stayed the same in all this. If he was also drinking more I could understand. The prednisone does not appear to be making much difference in the drinking so far.

Edited November 26, 2011 by Lmw626

[Guest mcsheltie]

I am taken aback that a vet would put a dog on Pred just to get him to drink more. Especially when the reason why he is urinating more hasn't been figured out. Pred can cause a number of bad side effects and Greyhounds experience more side effects than most breeds. One of them is increased urination.

 

The first thing I would do before any medication is take him off that food and put him back on something he has had before (even if you do loose poop quality) and see if the urination decreases. If it doesn't then you know you need to pursue a medical diagnosis ASAP.

 

Is your vet aware that Greyhounds have different blood values than normal? If not, you need to get that information to him. If he is aware and factored that in, the markers for kidney problems are high and that needs to be ruled out as a possible cause.

 

I hope your vet did not start him on thyroid medication without doing a full panel. The quick tests can not accurately diagnosis hypothyroid. Thyroid medication given to a dog with a healthy thyroid will also cause problems.

[Wonder]

Sorry but I am laughing. When I saw the subject line I thought your dog was peeing on top of the new food and I am wondering why does she leave it out for the dog to pee on ;it.

 

 

I thought the same thing

 

Mine are on Kirkland from Costco, no issues at all with any of them.

 

He had no hair on his throat, stomach or backs of back thighs when I got him and it's a little worse now on the back thighs.

 

I don't see any problems with lack of fur. Diamond and most of his littermates are pretty bare. Less to shed in the spring

 

The receipt says:

 

Urinalysis (I took them a sample)

X-Rays

OL Biliruben Direct/Indirect

OI Total Body Function SA120 K9

 

Vet said:

 

Creatinine was high.

Biliruben was high.

Thyroid was low.

X-rays of abdomen, kidneys, liver etc. showed no crystals or stones or anything abnormal.

 

I am not sure if the "Total Body Function" blood panel included a full Thyroid or just T4. I will call on Monday to ask.

 

 

Ask for a copy of the blood work. I always get copies for my pups to I can compare year to year.

[tbhounds]

For the life of me I don't understand your vets logic. From what little you noted it looks line your hound has normal blood work values for a gh. I don't understand supplementing a gh on thyroid meds because the T4 was low- you really need to run a full panel before you can label a hound hypothyroid. And starting your hound on pred to get him to drink more?? Holy cow. Who would start a dog on a corticosteroid to encourage water consumption? Of course he's going to have urinary accidents now.

I would seek another opinion- today.

[mychip1]

We had so many problems with EZ with loose poo. He went onto a prescription IAMS low residue, but it wasn't a great food - and when they had a recall, we were forced to switch for a while. We put him on Natural Balance Sweet Potato and salmon. He is doing well on it and has been on it for about two years. He does pee often - but he is 11 and I'm sure there may be some other issues going on.

 

On top of it, he is extraordinarily picky....and though we still have to add everything but the kitchen sink to it, he does like it as well/better than others we have tried.

 

 

Best of luck!

[Guest Lmw626]

I *think* the "Total Body Function" test was a full blood test but I will call first thing on Monday to ask and to get a copy of the results on paper.

 

Total issues vet noted because I keep typing them and remember another one:

 

Low blood platelets

Low thyroid

High creatinine

High billiruben

High urine concentration (it's pretty dark yellow/orange)

 

The test and urine sample were done on a fast with no food or water after midnight the night before. His urine sample was the color of yellow-orange crayon. Sometimes his urine smells very strong, even in the yard well after he's gone, other times there's barely a scent.

 

I also questioned the Prednisone because about a year and half ago he had a few flea bites that caused an allergic reaction rash which spread and became infected. He was given antibiotics and a cortisone shot and that immediately induced massive water drinking and urination and it took at least 6 weeks for it to go back to normal after only that one shot.

 

The dog has no pain, no lethargy, no panting, no pacing, nothing else that seems off. He's happy and plays and seems fine. The peeing in the house has happened three times each almost exactly two weeks apart. The days in between he holds it all day like normal, he goes out three times a day and I try to keep him on a strict schedule so he knows his routine (he's the kind of GH that needs a routine). We go out at a around 7:30am, 5:00pm and 11:00pm. Twice the accidents happened while I was home but outside in the yard and within 90 minutes of his last outing, once it happened while I was not home but the cleaning lady was here on the second floor (he peed on the first floor), also that time he had been out at 8:30am and she found it at 10:30am so less than two hours after he had been out. Just to reiterate... in almost 2 years, he has never done this before. He has never needed crating or confining. So this is definitely not normal for him.

 

To be fair, I know for a fact my vet treats at least 5 other families with greys, one of those families has 4 greys in their house. So I know he's familiar with them but perhaps I need to see someone else.

 

The hair loss on the tummy and buttocks is normal, I was told, for many greys and some never regain it after leaving the track. He raced until he was 4 1/2. However, the hair loss does actually look a little worse lately on his rear legs. Could be just a coincidence.

 

I just bought another full bag of that food yesterday!! But I'll go out now and get the Blue Buffalo grain free which he has been on before.

[Guest mcsheltie]

I *think* the "Total Body Function" test was a full blood test but I will call first thing on Monday to ask and to get a copy of the results on paper.

 

Total issues vet noted because I keep typing them and remember another one:

 

Low blood platelets

Low thyroid

High creatinine

High billiruben

High urine concentration (it's pretty dark yellow/orange)

 

The test and urine sample were done on a fast with no food or water after midnight the night before. His urine sample was the color of yellow-orange crayon. Sometimes his urine smells very strong, even in the yard well after he's gone, other times there's barely a scent.

 

I also questioned the Prednisone because about a year and half ago he had a few flea bites that caused an allergic reaction rash which spread and became infected. He was given antibiotics and a cortisone shot and that immediately induced massive water drinking and urination and it took at least 6 weeks for it to go back to normal after only that one shot.

 

The dog has no pain, no lethargy, no panting, no pacing, nothing else that seems off. He's happy and plays and seems fine. The peeing in the house has happened three times each almost exactly two weeks apart. The days in between he holds it all day like normal, he goes out three times a day and I try to keep him on a strict schedule so he knows his routine (he's the kind of GH that needs a routine). We go out at a around 7:30am, 5:00pm and 11:00pm. Twice the accidents happened while I was home but outside in the yard and within 90 minutes of his last outing, once it happened while I was not home but the cleaning lady was here on the second floor (he peed on the first floor), also that time he had been out at 8:30am and she found it at 10:30am so less than two hours after he had been out. Just to reiterate... in almost 2 years, he has never done this before. He has never needed crating or confining. So this is definitely not normal for him.

 

To be fair, I know for a fact my vet treats at least 5 other families with greys, one of those families has 4 greys in their house. So I know he's familiar with them but perhaps I need to see someone else.

 

The hair loss on the tummy and buttocks is normal, I was told, for many greys and some never regain it after leaving the track. He raced until he was 4 1/2. However, the hair loss does actually look a little worse lately on his rear legs. Could be just a coincidence.

 

I just bought another full bag of that food yesterday!! But I'll go out now and get the Blue Buffalo grain free which he has been on before.

 

If you find it is the food, pet stores will take it back.

 

I am no vet, but I would not go the Pred route!

 

Hair loss could be because he is going thru a fall shed. GHs have a lower thyroid level and platelet count than other breeds. They also have a higher Creatinine level. BUN may run a bit higher, but is often the same level as other breeds. So your dog may be normal if this wasn't taken into account.

[Batmom]

I'm very surprised about the prednisone especially and about thyroid supplementation without a full panel. Wouldn't give either. Would consult a different vet about the last bloodwork and urinalysis results. Would change back to his previous food.

 

I'm also surprised that he goes out so seldom. When someone is home here, mine go out at least 5 times/day and sometimes more often. I have had more than one dog who had to go out right after a meal, and then again 1.5 - 2.0 hours later; after that second out, they were good for several hours.

 

How much exercise does he get?

[Wonder]

Diamond goes out about 5 times in an hour

[tbhounds]

Blood work looks like normal gh values. You need another vet.

Perhaps ask in H&m for a vet recommendation in your area.

I wanted to add that when at home my hounds go out just about every hour or two!

[Guest Lmw626]

As far as how many times a day he goes out compared to other dogs... Well I'm not always at home all day. I'm self-employed and some days I am working at home and others I'm in/out going to my client's offices and other days I may be gone from 8-5 like any other office job. So I prefer for him to know what the schedule is rather than getting used to going out at random times of day on different days of the week. I live in a house in the city, not the suburbs, but I do have a fenced yard. Sometimes going out is in the yard and other times it's a long walk. Sometimes we go with other greys to the fenced ball field at the elementary school where they can run. He's not toy/small dog safe, and we don't have a size-segregated dog park, so that's not an option for us. The schedule he's on has never been a problem before and it's the same schedule he was on in his foster home.

 

I will consult another vet with the blood work results and see what they have to say. I'll post the actual figures on Monday when I get the copy.

 

I just picked up a bag of Blue Buffalo Wilderness, he's been on that before and I know what to expect from him while on it. I can't go back to the most recent food, it was a major digestive problem which is what prompted the switch to Nutro Lamb/Potato. If this is a food thing it will be unfortunate because the lamb/potato has been wonderful in terms of his digestive issues, he seems to get along fine on it as far as poops/gas/breath so it will be sad to go back to square one if it's causing the urination problem but those other problems are easier to manage.

Edited November 27, 2011 by Lmw626

[cleptogrey]

I discussed food with Shane's vet when he had increased urination and leakage on food with potato. She said regular potato is totally different from sweet potato, which he had been on before, and can in fact provoke increased urination in susceptible animals. I notice that food is potato-based. But as the other poster said, it could be a UTI. Shouldn't need a $300 vet visit with every possible test to figure that out.

 

interesting, just went thru a bout of increased urination w/ my male. mmmmm....introducing a new food(nature's domain) and WE WERE GIVING HIM HIS ALL TIME FAVORITE- BAKED POTATO!his urine checked out normal, thought it could have been his treats or something toxic he ingested or...hormones(spay/neuter incontience). puzzleing dogs these sensitive greyhounds, eh? the vet treated him for incontience- he peed in his sleep 3xs (my vet has 40+ years experience, i have used him for 35years and is an excellent diagnositician, he has figured out some doozies). i eliminated all treats and went back to DUCK AND OATMEAL HOLISTIC SELECT. the only additives are cold pressed salmon oil and probiotics and 2t.plain yoguart. things have returned to normal. dh will eat the remaining potatoes-i'm allergic to them.

 

A FOLLOW UP AND SOME SIMILARITIES:I HAVE BEEN FOLLOWING THIS BLOG SINCE SOME ASPECTS ARE TOO SIMILAR TO WHAT I AM DEALING W/ CURRENTLY

 

AFTER ONE WEEK OF DES, MY VET LOOKED(CHECKED SUGAR LEVELS, ETC PAPER DIPSTICK TEST) AT HIS URINE AND SAID IT LOOKS/SMELLS NORMAL, DID NOT FEEL IT WAS NECCESARY (AT THAT TIME) FOR FURTHER INVESTAGATION. WE HAD AROUND A MONTH OF NORMAL PEEING. THEN....LAST WEEK AN ACCIDENT- WET BEDDING(AND HE WASN'T COLD, HE'S IN A VARI KENNEL W/ LOTS OF WARM BLANKETS AND JAMMIES AT NIGHT) AND 2 INCIDENTS IN THE HOUSE. NOW, WE ARE TALKING ABOUT A DOG WHO HAD A CAST IRON BLADDER(HE IS 4.5 YEARS OLD). ON TOP OF THAT- I THINK THE NEW BAG OF HOLISTIC SELECT/DUCK(HE HAS BEEN ON THAT FOR OVER 2 YEARS) MIGHT BE RANCID OR THE FORMULA CHANGED SINCE HE BECAME SUPER GASSY AND LOOSE STOOLS WITH IN 2 DAYS OF OPENING THE NEW BAG OF KIBBLE. SO, HE'S OFF THE KIBBLE- ON RICE AND BEEF EATING WHAT LOOKS LIKE CONGEE RIGHT NOW.HIS DRINKING ESCLATED AND NOW IS NORMAL SINCE HE IS CONSUMING MASSIVE AMOUNTS OF WATER IN THE RICE CONGEE. A VET'S APPOINTMENT IS SCHEDULED FOR MONDAY MORNING- NO FOOD PRIOR TO EXAM SO BLOOD WORK AND NEW URINE SAMPLE WILL GO FOR FURTHER TESTING.

 

I AM WONDERING IF SOMEHTING THAT FELIX INGESTED(EITHER A FOOD OR MAYBE A TREAT PRIOR TO HIS CHANGE IN URINARY HABITS)HAS SET OFF OF THIS OFF- A TOXIN.JUST PRIOR TO THE INCONTIENCE HE WOULD STAND AND PEE FOR CLOSE TO 4 MINUTES- TALK ABOUT PEEING LIKE A RACEHORSE!) TEST RESULTS OR MY VET'S EXCEPTIONAL DIAGNOSTIC SKILLS WILL HOPEFULLY DIVULGE AN ANSWER AFTER OUR MONDAY VISIT.

[Guest Lmw626]

Very interesting, thanks Cleptogrey, for posting those other comments.

 

I have just started him this morning back on Blue Buffalo Wilderness. He's been on this before with different "side-effects" but at least I know what they should be and none of them were excessive peeing or accidents. I know what you mean about iron clad bladder, that exactly describes how Two Point used to be before all this started. Looking back on the calendar I can find nothing going on in the house (house work, new cleaning products, spraying etc) that would account for an indoor toxin and all bottles of that stuff are kept in cabinets or the basement and Two Point won't even walk within 10 feet of the basement door (too far to go on the hard wood floor) so I know he didn't get into anything in the house. The only other option could be from out in the back yard but it's essentially all dirt dog run, there's no grass or anything growing.

 

I hope your visit on Monday goes well! Good luck!

[cleptogrey]

one thing i forgot to clearly identify is felix started all of this after trying costco's nature domain food, their dental chews have been given to him sparingly(one a day) for a couple of months and maybe one or two thin rawhide treats(i bought a new batch of rawhide the same time as the nature's domain- way too many variables at one). we stopped all treats:(, except milkbones since my vet thought it could have been a toxin from one of the treats. think about exactly what treats you have given him over the last couple of months.

will post after i get results

if you wish to contact me, since i can't pm you, my email is williesmydog@aol.com

andrea

[tbhounds]

I discussed food with Shane's vet when he had increased urination and leakage on food with potato. She said regular potato is totally different from sweet potato, which he had been on before, and can in fact provoke increased urination in susceptible animals. I notice that food is potato-based. But as the other poster said, it could be a UTI. Shouldn't need a $300 vet visit with every possible test to figure that out.

 

interesting, just went thru a bout of increased urination w/ my male. mmmmm....introducing a new food(nature's domain) and WE WERE GIVING HIM HIS ALL TIME FAVORITE- BAKED POTATO!his urine checked out normal, thought it could have been his treats or something toxic he ingested or...hormones(spay/neuter incontience). puzzleing dogs these sensitive greyhounds, eh? the vet treated him for incontience- he peed in his sleep 3xs (my vet has 40+ years experience, i have used him for 35years and is an excellent diagnositician, he has figured out some doozies). i eliminated all treats and went back to DUCK AND OATMEAL HOLISTIC SELECT. the only additives are cold pressed salmon oil and probiotics and 2t.plain yoguart. things have returned to normal. dh will eat the remaining potatoes-i'm allergic to them.

 

A FOLLOW UP AND SOME SIMILARITIES:I HAVE BEEN FOLLOWING THIS BLOG SINCE SOME ASPECTS ARE TOO SIMILAR TO WHAT I AM DEALING W/ CURRENTLY

 

AFTER ONE WEEK OF DES, MY VET LOOKED(CHECKED SUGAR LEVELS, ETC PAPER DIPSTICK TEST) AT HIS URINE AND SAID IT LOOKS/SMELLS NORMAL, DID NOT FEEL IT WAS NECCESARY (AT THAT TIME) FOR FURTHER INVESTAGATION. WE HAD AROUND A MONTH OF NORMAL PEEING. THEN....LAST WEEK AN ACCIDENT- WET BEDDING(AND HE WASN'T COLD, HE'S IN A VARI KENNEL W/ LOTS OF WARM BLANKETS AND JAMMIES AT NIGHT) AND 2 INCIDENTS IN THE HOUSE. NOW, WE ARE TALKING ABOUT A DOG WHO HAD A CAST IRON BLADDER(HE IS 4.5 YEARS OLD). ON TOP OF THAT- I THINK THE NEW BAG OF HOLISTIC SELECT/DUCK(HE HAS BEEN ON THAT FOR OVER 2 YEARS) MIGHT BE RANCID OR THE FORMULA CHANGED SINCE HE BECAME SUPER GASSY AND LOOSE STOOLS WITH IN 2 DAYS OF OPENING THE NEW BAG OF KIBBLE. SO, HE'S OFF THE KIBBLE- ON RICE AND BEEF EATING WHAT LOOKS LIKE CONGEE RIGHT NOW.HIS DRINKING ESCLATED AND NOW IS NORMAL SINCE HE IS CONSUMING MASSIVE AMOUNTS OF WATER IN THE RICE CONGEE. A VET'S APPOINTMENT IS SCHEDULED FOR MONDAY MORNING- NO FOOD PRIOR TO EXAM SO BLOOD WORK AND NEW URINE SAMPLE WILL GO FOR FURTHER TESTING.

 

I AM WONDERING IF SOMEHTING THAT FELIX INGESTED(EITHER A FOOD OR MAYBE A TREAT PRIOR TO HIS CHANGE IN URINARY HABITS)HAS SET OFF OF THIS OFF- A TOXIN.JUST PRIOR TO THE INCONTIENCE HE WOULD STAND AND PEE FOR CLOSE TO 4 MINUTES- TALK ABOUT PEEING LIKE A RACEHORSE!) TEST RESULTS OR MY VET'S EXCEPTIONAL DIAGNOSTIC SKILLS WILL HOPEFULLY DIVULGE AN ANSWER AFTER OUR MONDAY VISIT.

Just curious why they put a male dog on DES (synthetic estrogen)???

[cleptogrey]

from what i have read male hormones are super expensive as well as hard to come by.it's a matter of toneing the sphynicter (sp) muscles and the female hormones will do the trick. i always check on line and found a couple of sites where they spoke about male neuter incontience and des or ppa(i believe that is the alternative) is what is used. many vets are against the use of des, it temporarily supress bone marrow development, but i was surprized that it is the perferred drug response wise yet more difficult to come by.i did ask how long it stays in the dog's system and after one week it's out(concerned about future blood work ups). there were no changes in my male(neutered at 9.5 months of age) from the one week of des; .10mg once a day. it did temporarily relieve the sleeping/incontience symptoms, but something else is going on. why isn't he holding his urine during the day? and when he goes it's not marking, and when he relieves himself outside he stands in the same spot for a really long time and on walks it's 4+ huge long pee breaks. he has always consumed a lot of water, runs hot during the summer and after hard runs, but something has changed. i will say, feeding him congee(soupy rice w/ beef) has done wonders for his upset intenstines- that's why i always post "feed them over cooked rice and beef".

[Guest verthib]

What about natural balance fish and sweet potato? That's what finally worked for my two.

[cleptogrey]

lisa, how's your pup doing???? things have settled down w/ felix. it must have been hearing that he was going to the vet. his urine was exactly the same, no swollen glands, even heart bead, calm(for once), he's playing and active so we are holding off on further testing. he has currently not had an "accident" in over a week, consumption of water is back to normal and we are trying nurto large breed food. my vet recommended a "lesser quailty food" and gave him tylan powder to help clean up his gut(no flagyl this time).

 

i did contact holisitc select, their comment was since the food is organic sometimes the ingredients may be of a different nature, there are variation in the ingredients(huh?) but what ever irritant/bacteria/what ever was bothering him seems to subsiding right now...knock on wood.