Lots Of Urination On New Food

[Guest Lmw626]

Sigh... It's the age-old greyhound food saga... I have posted about food issue more times than I can remember. Last time it was about gas. This time it's about pee.

 

I finally had to get off the Orijen Red Meat formula because it was hit or miss on each bag, some bags seemed to cause gas/d and the next bag everything would be fine, back and forth. So I tried a chicken based food and a lamb/rice based food. Both bad. On the advice of the guy at PetsMart I tried a bag of Nutro Natural Choice Large Breed Grain-Free Lamb & Potato. Seemed to be perfect almost fro the start! Zero gas!! Tiny poops! Mostly great breath! He likes the taste and eats it well! He had about two days of soft serve and then perfect. Then backslid a bit due to one too many oatmeal/bran based treats and now back to tiny firm poops.

 

But... there's pee and lots of it. He seems to need to pee every couple hours and the other day he peed in the house for the first time ever since adopting him in March 2010!! He has been a great boy, never once needed to be crated or confined. He is NOT drinking any more water than he normally does so I cannot correlate drinking to peeing here. He seems perfectly fine otherwise, very energetic, affectionate, "talkative", playful etc. Generally he's a happy dog and I dare say he seems smarter, he's done a few things that are way beyond his normal level of cleverness. I know he's not really getting smarter from the food but one can dream. My point is he's not sick or showing symptoms of anything in any other way so I don't really feel the $300 vet visit filled with needles and tests is necessary, especially since that kind of trip just creates a few days of diarrhea and upset tummy.

 

Any ideas? Could this actually be caused by the food? Here are the ingredients, by the way, as shown on PetsMart website:

 

 

 

"Nutro understands that some dogs have a sensitivity to grain—that's why Nutro is proud to introduce the only Grain Free Limited Ingredient Diet guaranteed to improve skin & coat, for dogs with food sensitivities. New Zealand Lamb is the single novel animal protein source and potatoes are the single carbohydrate source to reduce the likelihood of food sensitivity. Contains no artificial colors, flavors, preservatives or sweeteners and is completely gluten-free."

 

Ingredients:

Lamb Meal, Dried Potatoes, Potato Starch, Potato Protein, Pea Protein, Sunflower Oil (preserved with mixed Tocopherols), Chicken Fat (preserved with mixed Tocopherols), Dried Plain Beet Pulp, Natural Flavors, Flaxseed, Potassium Chloride, Salt, Powdered Cellulose, Choline Chloride, Zinc Sulfate, Taurine, Vitamin E Supplement, Ferrous Sulfate, L-Ascorbyl-2-Polyphosphate (source of Vitamin C), Potassium Iodide, Copper Sulfate, L-Carnitine, Niacin Supplement, Calcium Pantothenate, Biotin, Manganous Oxide, Thiamine Mononitrate (Vitamin B1), Selenium, Vitamin A Supplement, Pyridoxine Hydrochloride (Vitamin B6), Riboflavin Supplement (Vitamin B2), Vitamin D3 Supplement, Vitamin B12 Supplement, Folic Acid, Rosemary Extract.

 

Guaranteed Analysis:

Crude Protein (Min.) 21.00%, Crude Fat (Min.) 12.00%, Crude Fiber (Max.) 3.00%, Moisture (Max.) 10.00%, Linoleic Acid (Min.) 3.50% Zinc (Min.) 250 mg/kg, Vitamin E (Min.) 200 IU/kg, Ascorbic Acid (Min)* 35 mg/kg, Alpha Linolenic Acid (ALA) (Min.)* 0.20%, Taurine (Min.)* 0.20% Omega 6 fatty Acids (Min.)* 3.50%

[SarahsBlackPack]

How old is he? If he's a senior hound. There could be too much protein in the food for him.

 

Or he could have a UTI.

[Burpdog]

Not very much protein at all. Also, not very much meat.

 

Do a urine check on him. You are not withholding water, right?

[Batmom]

I'd check for UTI. If this started right after starting the new food, I'd also discontinue that.

[greyhead]

I discussed food with Shane's vet when he had increased urination and leakage on food with potato. She said regular potato is totally different from sweet potato, which he had been on before, and can in fact provoke increased urination in susceptible animals. I notice that food is potato-based. But as the other poster said, it could be a UTI. Shouldn't need a $300 vet visit with every possible test to figure that out.

[Guest Lmw626]

He's just over 6 years old so I would say he's middle-aged not senior. He was 76 pounds when he retired 12/31/09 and now fluctuates between 78 and 83 pounds. Vet always says he looks perfect and otherwise appears in great shape and health.

 

I'm not withholding water, it's fresh and available at all times and he's not drinking more than he normally does in the course of a day.

 

The protein in this Nutro food is lower than the Orijen he was on and lower even than most of the other foods I've tried with him (Blue Buffalo Wilderness, Evo, etc) so I'm inclined to think perhaps the potatoes are the problem based on the comment above.

 

I'm really at the end of my rope with the food issues. Everything seems to be one problem or another for him and I don't know what else to try.

 

His food history (not in the order of what we tried):

 

Avoderm Lamb/Rice - gas and diarrhea

Purina Shredded Chicken/Rice - Retching and vomiting within an hour of eating this, only food that caused such a severe reaction - Vet said it was probably allergic reaction.

Orijen Fish - continual gas

Orijen Red - gas and diarrhea

Evo Fish - insatiable hunger no matter how much he ate, breath that could clear a room from the other side of the house

BB Wilderness Fish - same bad breath issue as on Evo

BB Basics Salmon/Potato - diarrhea

Bil-Jac Sensitive Solutions (lots of chicken products in this) - what looked like undigested food in the diarrhea

Nutro Something ?? - The stuff he was on when he came from the foster, not grain free kind - Massive amounts of soft or diarrhea, almost like there were several dogs here instead of just one.

 

On any of these he was getting about 4 to 4.5 cups a day split in two meals. Any less than that and he would keep going back to the bowl looking for more food.

 

He gets yogurt occasionally and pumpkin when his stomach needs it. He gets Blue Buffalo Health Treats (this is not new to him), one or two a day but I've been holding those since the peeing started, just trying to simplify and eliminate things to figure this out.

 

When I say some of these foods caused breath problems, I mean the kind you can smell from him breathing in/out normally when 20 ft away from you. And yes, he gets full dental cleanings yearly and I brush him and use PetsLife gel but a for some reason the BB and Evo foods were causing rancid breath.

 

He's up to date on all his shots, he get's heartworm pill monthly. No other medications etc. He's prone to seasonal allergies though, sneezing and wheezing when the allergy counts are high outside. When it's bad I give him a claritan per the vet's direction but he hasn't needed one of those for a few months.

[Guest FreddyGirl]

Raw?

[Guest Lmw626]

Oh yes and in September he had a checkup and stool tested negative for everything!

[Walliered]

As much as I think Science Diet is lousy food, it has really worked well for my grey with IBD. I get the ZD and there are two different bags...one silver and one gold. I buy both and mix equal amounts in his food bowl. He eats about 4 cups a day split into two feedings...It is expensive, but to me completely worth it. Just a suggestion. (He gets NOTHING but Science Diet, even for treats!)

[Guest sweetpea]

I can't speak to the excessive urination, but have you considered IAMS (green bag)?

 

I only offer this up because I went through a very similar slog trying to find a food

that agreed with Sweetpea. Then I remembered Pam's comment about throwing a bag of Iams

in her cart in desperation. So we tried it. And she has thrived on it.

 

No more gurgly tummy, no more soft-serve poo, no more gas.

 

Good luck.

 

Buzzy

[Guest greyers]

I really do not have a clue about the urination deal, but I will say that Prudence ABSOLUTELY started to drink more water when we started to incorporate stella and chewy's raw patties. I know you said that he isn't drinking more, but food can have an effect. If your dog is now having accidents in the house then I really think you have only two choices.

1) Get his urine checked in case the food start is just coincidental

2) stop the food and switch to something else.

 

Sounds like you have been through the ringer with the food route. It also is interesting that you say you haven't seen him drink more. so if that is the case, I would lean toward the urine test personally. Then again I hate switching food and playing the food circus game. So for me I would rule out medical first, especially if my hound was doing well output wise on a food finally!

Good luck!

[Guest Lmw626]

Regarding Iams... I read the thread about the "Iams in the cart" before I posted my thread and after posting I went out to the store and almost tossed a bag in my own cart but decided to wait until I saw some feedback here. I think I may go back tomorrow and get a bag and see how it goes or I may give the Science Diet ZD a try.

 

I can't really tell if chicken or grains are a particular problem. There was vomiting on Pro-Plan Chicken but no vomiting on Bil-Jac Chicken. There has been moderate to large volumes of softserve on any food that contains rice.

 

Also any thoughts on the difference between regular and large breed? For example, Nutro has a Lamb and Potato Regular and a Lamb and Potato Large Breed. I wonder if there is some nutrient difference that he can't tolerate, maybe more of some mineral or vitamin. I have never before purchased a food that was specifically labeled large breed.

[Guest june]

Regarding Iams... I read the thread about the "Iams in the cart" before I posted my thread and after posting I went out to the store and almost tossed a bag in my own cart but decided to wait until I saw some feedback here. I think I may go back tomorrow and get a bag and see how it goes or I may give the Science Diet ZD a try.

 

I can't really tell if chicken or grains are a particular problem. There was vomiting on Pro-Plan Chicken but no vomiting on Bil-Jac Chicken. There has been moderate to large volumes of softserve on any food that contains rice.

 

Also any thoughts on the difference between regular and large breed? For example, Nutro has a Lamb and Potato Regular and a Lamb and Potato Large Breed. I wonder if there is some nutrient difference that he can't tolerate, maybe more of some mineral or vitamin. I have never before purchased a food that was specifically labeled large breed.

 

Kibble size is one difference the kibble often being larger for large breed, but not always. Also, such as with Iams, the large breed has glucosamine chondrotin in it. There may be more differences, but those are the ones I'm aware of. I feed Iams mini chunks with greyt success.

[Guest Melissa516]

I feel for you on the food issue. We are still trying to find the right food for Ginger. She came home with the Avoderm lamb & rice, but had severe diarrhea. Our vet recommended Iams lamb & rice (red bag). So, we are trying that. I wish we had seen the Iams green bag post first, because we probable would have tried that instead. The red bag is ok, but her poops are still softer than I would prefer. Good luck on your quest!

[Guest Swifthounds]

How old is he? If he's a senior hound. There could be too much protein in the food for him.

 

Not too much protein for a senior hound. You want to slightly increase, not decrease protein in a senior vs. middle age hound, but you also want better quality proteins (ie meat proteins) over the life of the dog to ease the load on the kidneys.

 

Not very much protein at all. Also, not very much meat.

 

Do a urine check on him. You are not withholding water, right?

 

[Guest sirsmom]

A friend uses Science Diet Sensitive stomach and swears by it for her dog with problems--you could try it just for awhile til things settle down then add a few teaspoons of quality canned food. First, I would get a urine sample in to the vet to rule out stones or UTI.

[Guest snakes]

My first hound was a senior and a VERY picky eater. I eventually found a food she would eat and thought it was amazing, then she started peeing in the house all the time, even when left alone for 2-3hours (before she could hold it 9hrs if need be).

Did some searching on here and someone with a food with corn in it made their dog pee, so i switched the food and almost instantly she stopped peeing in the house.

I know your food doesn't have corn, my only point is, if you see a relationship, I would switch the food anyway, any reaction to the food would clear up very quickly.

[cleptogrey]

I discussed food with Shane's vet when he had increased urination and leakage on food with potato. She said regular potato is totally different from sweet potato, which he had been on before, and can in fact provoke increased urination in susceptible animals. I notice that food is potato-based. But as the other poster said, it could be a UTI. Shouldn't need a $300 vet visit with every possible test to figure that out.

 

interesting, just went thru a bout of increased urination w/ my male. mmmmm....introducing a new food(nature's domain) and WE WERE GIVING HIM HIS ALL TIME FAVORITE- BAKED POTATO!his urine checked out normal, thought it could have been his treats or something toxic he ingested or...hormones(spay/neuter incontience). puzzleing dogs these sensitive greyhounds, eh? the vet treated him for incontience- he peed in his sleep 3xs (my vet has 40+ years experience, i have used him for 35years and is an excellent diagnositician, he has figured out some doozies). i eliminated all treats and went back to DUCK AND OATMEAL HOLISTIC SELECT. the only additives are cold pressed salmon oil and probiotics and 2t.plain yoguart. things have returned to normal. dh will eat the remaining potatoes-i'm allergic to them.

Edited November 9, 2011 by cleptogrey

[Greytlady94]

His urine needs to be tested for UTI. If it were my dog I would also have a urine culture done.

 

At six he is still a young dog, not middle age.

[brandimom]

Sorry but I am laughing. When I saw the subject line I thought your dog was peeing on top of the new food and I am wondering why does she leave it out for the dog to pee on ;it.

[LisaB]

Sorry but I am laughing. When I saw the subject line I thought your dog was peeing on top of the new food and I am wondering why does she leave it out for the dog to pee on ;it.

 

Glad I wasn't the only one!

 

But also glad to get some good advice; I'm trying to figure out a new food for my bunch that all three will do well on. Thanks, everyone!

[Guest goofyfoot1]

Hi, We have been using Nutro grain free Turkey now for six mounths and the results are fine. But we also mix it The Honest Kitchen Turkey and Buster is working like fine tuned machine i can not say enough good things about the two foods that he is eating. esp. The Honest Kitchen..

i would really look into taking him to the vet. just make sure it's not an u.t.i. ,

Hope this helps

[Guest Lmw626]

First let me say that's hilarious to the two people who commented about peeing ON the food. I re-read the title and yes, it does sound like that!

 

Just giving an update on the outcome of all this peeing... Vet found no UTI or other infections. He found that Two Point has highly concentrated urine and needs to be drinking more water and is also hypo-thyroid. So we just started on prednisone to increase his water intake and a thyroid drug I can't pronounce and will check blood levels in 30-60 days.

 

So he's been doing great all the way up until tonight when, as soon as our back was turned, he had himself a little snack off the fruit/cheese platter which included 6 toothpicks! Yes I know, shouldn't have left it within reach but I can honestly say in 2 years he has never ever gone after food like that before, not even once! Lesson learned. So Thanksgiving night was just spent in the emergency vet's office while they induced vomiting to bring them back up. Looks like we're going to be ok. No more appetizers for Two Point though.

 

Oh yeah... the Lamb/Potato food. He's doing GREAT on it. Very good poops and no gas and no breath issues. Vet said it was a good food. He does seem a little more hungry on it than he was on the Orijen but it has a little less protein so that could be why. I will try upping his food amount once he's all back to normal after today's trip to the clinic...

Edited November 25, 2011 by Lmw626

[Guest Lmw626]

... Update 11/26. Peeing in the house continues. 1 1/2 hours after he last peed in the back yard and then went for a walk in the park. Comes in the house and pees. I don't know what is going on...

[Batmom]

Did he have a full thyroid panel (useful) or just a T4 (not useful, shouldn't be on meds)? Did he have full bloodwork as well -- blood count and chemistry panel?