Very Frustrated And Mystified

[rascalsmom]

We've had Jack for almost two years. He is six years old. Shortly after we adopted him we found that he has corns. He has one on each of his front feet. They are painful for him. He has also never had what I'd call 'good' poop. At first we fed him chicken and potatoes, and slowly transitioned him to dog food. Turned out the food we were giving him (Fromm) didn't work for him, so after awhile we put him on a prescription diet. The vet thought this would 'calm things down'. It did, and I then put him on mid-range food, such as Iams. He did okay on that, never 'great', but okay. We also put him on rimadyl for the corn pain. He has recently been getting it only once daily, after a meal.

 

About a month ago he started vomiting bright yellow bile up, about twice a week, in the morning. On these days, he would not eat breakfast. A couple of weeks ago I took him for his checkup, and mentioned the vomiting to the vet. She did a bunch of blood work, etc, and everything came back fine. She told me to discontinue the rimadyl, and try tramadol. I've been doing that, usually just one pill (50 mg) per day. She also put him on sucralfate, 1/2 hour before meals, to coat the stomach.

 

He has not thrown up since, but lately he is acting weird. We were out of town over the weekend, and my friend (who kept him and Rascal) said that on Saturday, Jack was trembling, and that he seemed uncomfortable getting up, etc. Her husband was also putting a new roof on, and I thought maybe those 'bad noises' were bothering him; also it was incredibly windy that day. Usually that doesn't bother Jack too much, but Ruby used to always get jittery in bad weather, so...

 

Well, today, he would not eat breakfast. Or dinner. That's not like Jack. He has been shaking, panting gently, and been sort of glued to my side all day. It has also been rather windy and miserable today. I cannot figure him out. He is a quirky dog, but what the heck is wrong with him?? I can't give him pain pills if he won't eat, in case it IS pain of some sort....I should also add that the poop has further deteriorated....used to be sort of 'soft serve', but now it's more like thick gravy. Talk about a mess to try and clean up.....

 

Any thoughts?

Edited October 20, 2011 by rascalsmom

[Guest Tes623]

It could be the tramadol; I've had a couple of dogs that didn't do well on it.

[Guest jbbuzby]

It definitely doesn't sound like he's feeling too well. Though I'm not much help on some of what you discuss, I know that my parent's westie has a very sensitive stomach/food allergies and would also vomit that gross yellowy liquid. Regular Iams is a corn based diet, which many dogs have a lot of trouble digesting. For their westie, he was put on a potato and venison diet and his symptoms of itchy skin, hot spots, and vomiting all ceased. Have you tried a high quality grain-free kibble?

 

I hope you figure it out for him soon...poor guy!

[Time4ANap]

We would see the early morning bile thing and usually giving Rocket some bread or a couple cookies would take care of it. It was like his dinner from the night before didn't hold him until morning, and his stomach was empty.

 

As far as foods, we have not had the bile issue since we switched him to Precise Foundation Chicken Meal and Rice. Note the exact name as there are several formualtions with similar names. The food is highly digestible, and we've also had no Big D since switching to it early this year. It's not as rich as some of the premium foods we've tried (Blue Buffalo, TOTW etc) and doesn;t seem to produce the problems that the richer foods did for Rocket. His coat is very soft on this food. We tried it based on the recommendation of the Greyhound Resort which is where Rocket is boarded when we are away. They use this as the house food, and it completely eliminated the stomach problems he was having on the rich foods.

 

Hope he's feeling better soon.

[Batmom]

Could be the tramadol -- it weirded Joseph out rather badly.

 

How is his weight, Melissa?

[Guest cendrine]

What about trying him on home cooked ground beef or chicken and rice?

[rascalsmom]

Jey, Jack is 86 pounds....he has gained one pound since his last vet visit. Definitely not losing! I think he was 85 when we brought him home.

 

I will eliminate the tramadol, to see. However, when he was at our friends' house, he was not on tramadol, and acted the same way.

 

My friend thinks he may have arthritis.

[greyhead]

Does he chew at his sides at all? Or jump suddenly for no apparent reason? Could be hookworm.

[rascalsmom]

Does he chew at his sides at all? Or jump suddenly for no apparent reason? Could be hookworm.

No, he does neither.

 

He just ate some rice and ground beef.

Edited October 20, 2011 by rascalsmom

[GeorgeofNE]

What are you doing for the corns? I don't think I've seen anyone on GT actually giving pain medication for them. Do you use Thera-Paws? Those seem to help. There are also other treatments--some more useful than others.

 

A generic Pepcid once a day would eliminate the vile barfing I bet.

 

And if he's acting weird since starting Tramadol, I'd stop it and find out if anyone in your area is really good and hulling corns.

[rascalsmom]

Corns: have tried lots of stuff. "Special cream", bag balm, hulling, duct tape....nothing works. I usually just hull them myself every couple of weeks--the vet showed me how. Don't use TheraPaws (although I have two), because he really doesn't need to be on hard surfaces beyond crossing the patio to the grass.

 

I gave him a Rimadyl after he ate his burger/rice. Our vet (VERY greyhound-savvy) remarked that Jack's corns "seem SOOO painful". And she sees a LOT of greyhounds, since it's the clinic that vets all the adoption group's dogs.

Edited October 20, 2011 by rascalsmom

[rascalsmom]

OK, here we are again, and Jack is still not normal (not that he is in general ).

 

For the past five days or so, I have been keeping him on a regimen of his sucralfate about an hour before meals; about 30 minutes after that I give him a pepcid; then wait another 20-30 minutes and feed him. I have been giving him chicken and potatoes, thinking a bland diet might help with his stomach and also with his poop, which has been completely unformed lately. Up till yesterday this was working pretty well, and he even had the occasional formed poop.

 

Well, yesterday he didn't want to eat breakfast. So I offered him a little kibble, and he ate it. He did eat at dinnertime (chicken/potatoes), but this morning refuses to eat anything.

 

The vet suspected that he has gastritis, and that's why she prescribed the sucralfate, and told me to give him pepcid. She never really addressed the loose poop issue, maybe because it's an ongoing problem with him, I don't know.

 

I don't know much about gastritis, if that's what Jack has, so any information is welcome....as well as any advice of anything else I can be doing for him. I am ready to pull my hair out.

[Guest KennelMom]

Have you had any xrays done? Might be worth it to get some pics of his innards if you haven't already.

[rascalsmom]

No, we haven't had x-rays done.

[sweetdogs]

How long was he on daily rimadyl? I know he's on pepcid & sucralfate now but for some reason I thought he had been on the rimadyl a while without any tummy protectants. Maybe he's got some stomach ulceration?

 

I'm a raw feeder, but if my guys were only eating chicken & potatoes, they would have very bad stools. He's not eating any raw bones or other calcium source, is he? If not, adding 1/2 teaspoon of ground eggshell powder per pound of food fed might firm up his stools.

[rascalsmom]

He's been on daily rimadyl for probably a year or more, but only once daily. And yes, he was on it alone, without any other meds. We checked his bloodwork regularly, it was fine, and his appetite was good, too.

We took him off rimadyl when he started vomiting, and put him on the sucralfate/pepcid. He's not getting any pain meds now.

 

I have only had him on the chicken and potatoes for several days, and his poop was not solid BEFORE that. It has gotten a bit better with the bland diet. But now he's not that interested in the bland diet--or anything else.

No, no raw bones or anything.

Edited October 26, 2011 by rascalsmom

[Guest BiancasMom]

I would consider and abdominal ultrasound. Rimdayl can cause GI ulceration. Signs of GI ulceration can be lack of appetite, soft stools, sometimes vomiting and general discomfort. The ultrasound could also help rule out things as well. I hope Jack feels better soon!

[sweetdogs]

He's been on daily rimadyl for probably a year or more, but only once daily. And yes, he was on it alone, without any other meds. We checked his bloodwork regularly, it was fine, and his appetite was good, too.

We took him off rimadyl when he started vomiting, and put him on the sucralfate/pepcid. He's not getting any pain meds now.

 

I have only had him on the chicken and potatoes for several days, and his poop was not solid BEFORE that. It has gotten a bit better with the bland diet. But now he's not that interested in the bland diet--or anything else.

No, no raw bones or anything.

 

My guess is the same as your vets - a sore tummy (gastritis). He doesn't have any blood in his stool, does he? I'd probably add some eggshell powder & see if his stool firms up.

 

I'd give him a few more days & then think about some xrays or ultrasound. I'd just want to know that his belly looked OK. Then I'd be drinking lots of nectar of patience.

 

(My corn dog Conor sympathizes with Jack. Conor has one on each back paw & since Adrienne stuck with it for 6 months before she Chevy's corn fell off, we're trying the soaking/hyaluronic acid/corn cream again. For forever or until the damn things die DED! )

[Guest BlueCrab]

Sorry your boy's not feeling well. We have no experience with tramadol, so I can't speak to that, but we did have a yellow-bile vomiter, so I have a little expereince there. When one of our bridge kids was regularly throwing up yellow bile we ended up switching foods and that cleared the problem right up. We had been on...oh jeez, can't remember now, it's been so long. But we ended up with Canidae, which all of ours have done well on.

 

As far as the corn, Trixie sympathizes as well. I agree with Susan (GeorgeofNE) tho that I haven't usually heard pain meds used for corns. Trixie has a pretty constant corn on her right front. Duct tape works great for us as far as causing it to loosen and fall off, but it does come back. We tried hulling, soaking and Kerasolv and finally duct tape, and the tape definitely worked for us. It initially took almost a month of regular tape changes to get any effect, but now it's only a day or two with tape and the corn pulls right out. We do use Thera paws for our outside walks, although our hardwood floors make her gimpy too, so I'd like to come up with something soft for in the house. She'll tolerate the thera paws on walks, but will remove them in the house as soon as she lays down.

 

Hope your boy is feeling better soon.

[Guest courser]

Both of my greyhounds had the exact same reaction to tramadol as you described. Panting, stress, pacing. It is a pretty common reaction in greyhounds. Many of my friends greyhounds have done the same thing.

 

My first greyhound threw up the yellow bile and wouldn't eat the next morning. Usually it was preceded by a very loud rumbling tummy during the night. We could stop the entire process if I got up and gave him a couple of bites of something during the night when we first started hearing the tummy noises. It didn't matter what it was cheese, bread, dog treats, dog food. After we got something in his tummy the rumbling would stop within a few minutes and he would be fine by morning. If I had waited a little too late and he was refusing to eat food or treats I could usually "pill" enough food into him to make it stop. Doesn't take much.

 

He was the worst while we were battling hookworms. We had to have him wormed several times and had to switch our heartworm preventative to one that would also take care of hooks. The battle lasted for several months and during that time he did this about once a week. It continued off and on his entire life but got less frequent after the hooks were gone. I also noticed it seemed to be related to when he was fed. If he went too long between meals he was more likely to have it happen. It helped to give him a small snack at bed time to prevent it. It happened more frequently when he was put on a diet to lose a few lbs.

[MaryJane]

Switch from giving chicken to giving beef hamburger because there might be a sensitivity to chicken that is making the poop issue worse.

 

He should not need pain medicines for the corns - I would eliminate them if you have not already done so.

 

If he is not eating, has diarrhea and I can't tell from your post whether he is still vomiting but, I would get him into the vet and get something to stop the diarrhea and discuss the overall situation (which sounds like it might be degrading somewhat from your first post - hard to tell) with the vet. It might be time to recheck for worms and to possibly do a stool culture to see if he has any "nasty bacteria".

 

If he is not eating ... is he still drinking? If not, there is a possibility of him getting dehydrated - try giving him some yogurt (regular type with whole milk and not flavored), that would get some calories into him too and help to keep him hydrated. If he eats the yogurt, try mixing with cheerios. You might also try the cheese sticks - my dogs love those.

[rascalsmom]

Mary Jane....to address a few of your comments....

 

--Jack was on the chicken/potatoes when we first got him. His food has always been a chicken-based one. I tried a bag of beef-based food once, it did not improve his stool. The vet did suggest, way back when, that he is just one of those greyhounds who don't tolerate 'high end' food; even on the prescription food (and the ingredients were horrendous) his stool was better, that's why I've stuck with a mid-range food, one with beet pulp for fiber, etc.

 

--Jack is off the pain meds completely.

 

--he hasn't been vomiting; I wouldn't call his stool 'diarrhea', and it WAS getting better on the bland diet.

 

--we had a stool test done on 10/11, when I took him for his annual checkup. No parasites seen; however I realize there could still be some, they don't always see them. He has been on Heartgard Plus since we brought him home.

 

--he's still drinking.

 

I would not say he is getting worse. It's more that he seemed to be getting better, he was eating, and feeling more like himself, until yesterday. Like he's backsliding a bit. And that concerns me. Jack was never one to leave food in his bowl, and now he doesn't want to eat.

[Guest cwholsin]

Well, gastritis in humans is generally nothing to worry about. All it means is general GI distress. It could be causing/making his diarrhea worse, and from what experience I've had it's something that runs its course if it's viral, and treat with antibiotics if it's bacterial (which it sounds like your vet ruled this out already with the fecal). If he's having true diarrhea (liquid poop 5+ times a day), you can give regular immodium, We give our 75lb boy one pill which stopped his diahrrea! You can give more, but I feel it's better to err on the side of caution. If he's not pooing more frequently than normal, then it really isn't diarrhea--just loose stool. Either of these can be caused by gastritis!

 

Keeping him on a bland diet is perfect. I've been told that you can give pepto bismol to dogs, also but have never done that myself. It might help when he's refusing to eat. And I agree with everyone else who has experience with bile vomiting from stomach being empty for too long. Hermes does that from time to time too.

 

Hope your boy feels better soon!

[greyhead]

It sounds like the fecal was just to check for worms. Perhaps a poop culture should be done to test for bacteria.

[rascalsmom]

Tell me more....what kind of bacteria are they looking for in a stool culture? I never heard of a stool culture (in a dog, anyway).