Refuses To Go Outside

[Guest tuba]

Rescued our female GH ex-racer almost 2 weeks ago on March 9, 2011.

She's been gradually warming up to us, even playing with her toys.

 

Then suddenly 2 days ago she stopped going outside. We can get her out the front door of our flat but then she freezes on the landing.

 

We live 1 flight above the ground floor in a flat in London.

 

From day one she has had no issues with steps. She goes up and down like a champ.

She even walked down a few steps when I've tried leaving a trail of chicken but then she turns around and goes back up.

 

So she only really goes out once or twice per day to pee and poo. And that is only because I pick her up and carry her down the steps and out the door. She has had plenty of pee accidents in the flat so we're trying to stick to a schedule but it doesn't really help when she just won't go out.

 

They were doing some light construction work in the flat below because the renter moved out. So we thought maybe that spooked her. But yesterday she hadn't been out since the morning so I carried her outside around 11pm. Once outside she's usually fine but now she often stops walking and would only continue when I turned her back towards home. So I think maybe she just hates going outside.

 

Any ideas how to get her to go outside without carrying her? I had knee surgery the day after I got her so this isn't fun.

[Batmom]

Ow re knee surgery!

 

Some houndies do get frightened of the outside world in the beginning, and it can take a bit of time to get over that.

 

Couple suggestions until somebody smarter wanders along:

 

- If you have to carry here to get her to potty outside, I would do that as best you can.

 

- Might help to practice going up and down the stairs withOUT going further outside. Then at least she might do the stairs for you more regularly. Sometimes this is easier with a harness than a collar -- then you can just hold the dog against your leg like a suitcase and up/down you go.

 

- Is there a decent place near your flat where the two of you can just stop and watch the world go by for a few minutes? Maybe have a little conversation and a special treat as well.

 

- How does she get along with other dogs? If you have any friends with calm, confident dogs that don't frighten her, might try walking her on an outing with those dogs.

 

Hugs and best luck.

[GeorgeofNE]

Apparently something scared her out there--

 

She HAS to get out more than twice a day no matter how you get her out there.

 

If she were mine, I think I'd get her outside, then just stay out there giving her treats and just acting as normal as possible for a while a few times a day. While it's tempting to soothe and coddle a dog who is scared, doing so can actually reinforce their fear, so you need to be the big brave one for her, and act as if things are really great outside.

 

When I first got George, there were a few things that scared him--shiny floors and the elevator--but I found that by acting as if there was nothing abnormal about a closet that moved and shiny floors he quickly realized it was OK and he got over it.

 

It's also important to deal with the piddle accidents inside with a really good enzyme cleaner or similar method.

 

Good luck with the knee. I've had knee surgery three times myself, so I know how difficult this must be, but this is a really important time in a newly adopted hound's life. Perhaps a friend can assist you?

Edited March 20, 2011 by GeorgeofNE

[Guest tuba]

Forgot to mention before that she is totally un-motivated by treats. We've tried chicken, cheese and all sorts of hard and soft dog treats. She ignores them all both when trying to coax her to move and after she poos or pees. She just wants to rush back home.

[krissy]

She almost sounds like a puppy going through fear phases. I had a foster puppy a few summers back. I'd never had a dog or puppy before. For the first couple of days he followed me EVERYWHERE. Even if he didn't really want to leave our driveway, if I dropped the leash and kept walking he would run after me because he was more afraid of not being with me than he was of the outside world. A couple days later he started refusing to leave the driveway completely, and wouldn't follow me if I kept walking. I was so distraught thinking I'd made walking so awful that he didn't want to go anymore. Turned out it was normal. Puppies go through fear phases at certain weeks of their life and they want to stay close to home which is safe, so they start refusing to leave the house, and really wanting to return (i.e. pulling/running once you turn around to head home).

 

How old is your girl? Technically these fear phases are all in the early weeks, but because our GHs are raised on farms and don't get the same exposure to the outside world, they essentially are at the same point as puppies, especially the younger ones. I wonder if she isn't just going through a sort of fear phase.

[Guest Liz_in_PA]

In the US, many people use very well cooked hotdogs. That won't encourage her to go down the stairs, but if she can start associating being outside with yummy smelly treats, that might help.

[XTRAWLD]

We had issues with Ryder about 3 months in similar to this. There were roofers on the streets in our neighbourhood and all the noise completely spooked him. He refused to go outside and do ANYTHING. If we did manage to get him outside (forcefully) he would stand with his tail tucked and not try to pee/poop. If he did try he would constantly be looking around him ready to bolt. He would PULL me around the neighbourhood just hoping to get home to his safe place. He had to wear a harness because there was too much pressure on his neck from pulling. I had to keep the windows closed in the summer so he wouldn't hear any nail guns, etc. Trying to encourage him to come out of the house with treats worked, but then he would refuse treats as we walked. Turning him around into another direction only helped for a short time.

 

What worked? I took him for a 1.5 hour walk and started no where close to our home. Hubby drove us to my parents house which is about 5-7 minutes drive and only about 5 km away. I brought a bottle of water and treats. For the first 10 minutes he went hay-wire like he would at home, but as we kept walking he calmed down. He obviously had a lot of pent up energy too. We walked very busy roadways (6 lanes wide) so there was a lot going on, cars, buses, trucks, other people, other dogs, other smells. After that walk, he was fabulous and has been since.

 

I understand you have knee surgery which isn't the best for walking a long distance. Is anyone able to walk her for you (that knows how to handle greyhounds)? I'm a true believer that the long walk and change of scenery will work.

[Guest Stripeyfan]

Kelly got like this around Bonfire Night last year because he has a firework phobia. He was on prednisone at the time so he needed regular pee breaks to stop him having accidents inside. I found that getting his lead out and pretending I was going to take him for a walk was the only way to get him to go out - he got so excited he forgot to be scared long enough to go for a pee. Good luck, and I hope your knee heals up quickly!

[Guest tuba]

Thanks for the well wishes on the knee. It's healing well and I can walk fine. It just gets sore sooner than normal. Plus my wife is here, too. It's just that she can't carry our GH down the steps.

 

I think a 1.5 hour walk would kill her! And the more 'stuff' outside (cars, constructions, people), the more scared she becomes. She's also really lazy. After the last 30 min walk I gave her she was practically dragging us home. Given her recent change, I don't think I could even get her to go out for that long without her going statue.

 

My wife refuses to try hotdogs because of the high salt content.

 

And our GH had another accident in the house right after I posted. This time in the bedroom! We seem to be regressing...

[Batmom]

Hard though it might be, I would do your best to get her outside for potty 4-5 times per day. If she absolutely won't walk, then I would carry her. No fuss, no muss, no coaxing, just rewards when she does what she's supposed to ... and part of that reward is once she's done all she needs to do, she gets to go back in if she wants.

[GeorgeofNE]

Hard though it might be, I would do your best to get her outside for potty 4-5 times per day. If she absolutely won't walk, then I would carry her. No fuss, no muss, no coaxing, just rewards when she does what she's supposed to ... and part of that reward is once she's done all she needs to do, she gets to go back in if she wants.

 

Agreed. Otherwise you're basically training her that it's OK to use the house as a toilet.

 

And don't worry about the salt content of hot dogs. You'd be feeding her tiny little slices--and she's not an old lady with a heart condition whose been told to avoid salt anyway!

 

When you're working on a vexing problem, you really need to be open to trying just about anything! What's important is not the method, it's the result!

 

I think taking her in the car (do you have a car?) somewhere else for a walk is a great idea! Somewhere quiet. I've never been to London--so I don't know how far you'd have to go--but it's worth a shot!

[Guest tuba]

Bought a stop-pull harness and tried it out after I carried her downstairs and outside because she was pacing a lot. She would not move from the front gate. I carried her down the street twice and she would only walk straight back home. Every other direction, statue mode.

 

Even tried pulling her and lifting her like a suit-case against my leg. Nothing. Dead weight.

So I'm crating her. If she looks like she wants to go out, I'll carry her and give her 10 mins to do something out there. Otherwise, I'm going to be and she's staying in the crate until my wife wakes up at 6:00am (we always feed her at 6:30am). The crate is in our bedroom so we should hear her if she really needs to go.

 

We're at our wit's end and having a very hard time with this.

 

EDIT - It would be a good idea to walk somewhere else but unfortunately, we don't have a car.

 

EDIT2 - She is 3 yrs old.

Edited March 20, 2011 by tuba

[Guest Giselle]

So I'm crating her. If she looks like she wants to go out, I'll carry her and give her 10 mins to do something out there. Otherwise, I'm going to be and she's staying in the crate until my wife wakes up at 6:00am (we always feed her at 6:30am). The crate is in our bedroom so we should hear her if she really needs to go.

That sounds like a perfectly fine training system =) This is how most people crate train their puppies, anyways. This is basically how I train all new dogs, too.

 

I can't really offer any advice that hasn't already been stated, but understand that all of these weird behaviors are basically signs of extreme fear. The refusal of food, the statuing, the dead-weight, the avoidance of touch. It's all fear! So, try not to get frustrated yourself Stay positive! Stay calm and relaxed. If you stand outside and use each minute that she doesn't go potty as reason to get angry, she will only get more nervous and be less inclined to go potty at all. Good luck! They usually settle pretty quickly.

[Guest sheila]

My wife refuses to try hotdogs because of the high salt content.

 

 

I won't address the rest of you dilemma because because the best advisors on the board have already been here. I will address this part. The hot dogs are only a training treat and not part of a staple diet so I don't think the salt content should be of much concern. Just like you might occasionally enjoy a chocolate bar, so could your dog benefit from a high value treat. In this situation I would say it couldn't hurt and might help.

[Guest tuba]

Thanks for all the posts. Having some place to turn for advice really helps.

And you’ve all convinced my wife. She bought some hotdogs to grill up and try out this afternoon.

 

Last night, after I crated her I realized she was very thirsty. We leave water out for her all day but I guess she was too lazy to go drink :] So when I brought her some water she drank like she just crossed a desert.

It made me think perhaps she was so dehydrated that she really didn’t have to pee earlier. So we let her hang out in the living room with us (watching her closely). She just slept on her blanket.

 

Crated her for bedtime at 11:15pm. Lots of licking/grooming in the morning but she was fine.

 

Let her out for food around 6am. She always gets excited for breakfast.

Could not entice her to go for a walk so I kept her crated with the door closed.

Coaxed her out with food at one point but she darted back into her crate before I could get the leash on her.

 

FYI, I never try to physically pull her from the crate. Just lure her out with food and pettings.

 

Eventually at 8:30am I coaxed her out of her crate enough to get her leashed. She froze in the bedroom with leash on. So I carried her out and down the steps. She stayed statued in the yard. Carried her outside the gate to the sidewalk and eventually she got walking. She made a small poo so I praised and took her straight home.

 

We'll see how the rest of the day goes...

[SPDoggie]

Just to reassure you that others have been there... our shy boy Kingsley was "scared of the world" and did not like to leave our property for walks. He too was not interested in any food while in his state of fear/concern/attention/statueing. We would take him outside very often though and just stand with him so that he could slowly get accustomed to this new world.

It was months, like 6 or more until he would go for a walk, and he did best if the "whole pack" was with him. He also would gladly walk if we drove him somewhere (even just down the street) so we used that technique a lot so that he had more-and-more positive encounters with the world.

But you just need to know it may be a long-slow road... but you all will figure one another out and it will get better. (he also got much braver when we got a second)

 

best to you

[XTRAWLD]

Reminder, if you want to get her out of the crate instead of just coaxing - attach the leash to the collar, and never pull from the collar directly with your hand.

 

She will have to learn that you are the boss, and if she always gets her way, she will know she can get away with a lot.

 

Greys are creatures of habit and routine. The track life is spot on with feeding and elimination runs. They typically go out 4-5 times a day, and know when they are going outside it is to do their business. She's still very new so this is a lot of getting used to for her, but you are alpha to her and she has to learn this and not have her be the boss.

[BatterseaBrindl]

Agree ... she needs to get outside much more often.

Even if she does not potty, she needs to get used to the 'real world'.

She cannot stay in your appartment forever!

I'd take her out at least 5 times a day...even if it's just for 5 minutes and she does nothing but stand and look around. If she takes even one small step forward, praise praise praise.

It will get easier.

Good luck!!

[Fruitycake]

My Monty was one of those frustrating statue-ers too. And he's developed a fear of thunderstorms and fireworks. Around last 4th of July, wth fireworks EVERYWHERE, I had to just stop at one point and sit and wait for him to "come back to Earth" because he was completely shut down. I sat on the sidewalk (I'd suggest someplace better, with your knee surgery so recent!) and I just waited for him to come back to me. This was after midnight, and I probably waited about 45 minutes for him to start to relax and move. I had decided that I would wait him out and that it wasn't his fault that he was so frightened because he didn't know that he wouldn't be hurt by those strange noises and things. I just waited for him, silently, as I watched the sky and the trees blowing in the wind and just waited. (This was hours after the last firecrackers/bottle rockets/fireworks had gone off, but he was jumping at car doors half a block away, trees tapping on houses, the sound of his own breathing [maybe an exaggeration...].)

 

Would it be possible to take her out and just sit with her? No rewards, no demands to do anything, no touching or even talking to her, just sitting?

 

I also like the idea of taking her downstairs and then coming right back up, if you can do that. Many times a day, if possible (a day off or something). Would it be possible to feed her there?

 

[Oh, and you don't need to cook the hot dogs, raw works just as well!]

[Guest tuba]

Wanted to give an update.

 

Things got worse. She even poo-ed in the flat one day.

 

The behaviourist from the adoption place finally called us back after a few weeks. She thinks our Grey is afraid of the outside and so she would rather do her business in the flat, even if it makes us upset, than go out. The woman suggested we drive our dog somewhere quiet and walk around. But we don’t have a car so not much help.

 

We’ve been spending short periods of time (15 mins) in the front yard with toys, treats and praise to get her used to being outside without stress. We do this a few hours after her morning walk (i.e., carry her outside for poo and pee).

 

We also hired a behaviourist/trainer. He never worked with a Greyhound before but he uses only positive methods, seems to have much education and experience, and has a lot of mentors to call on for advice. The goal is to have him bond with her for the first few visits and eventually be able to train her with us (which means, train us). He met with her 2 times where he would just sit with her. She would hide in her crate and growl at him if he got too close. But she would take some treats from his hand if he had his back to her. It was slow going.

 

Visit #3 was yesterday. We left her in the bedroom, muzzled and outside her crate (crate door closed). The first 30 mins were like the last 2 visits. So he decided to accelerate things and show her who was Alpha.

 

He went back in and shut the bedroom door. Over the next 30 mins she growled and she barked at him (didn’t know she knew how). He let her bark it out and then he turned his back to her. She stopped barking and came up to him! He leashed her, walked her around the bedroom and then took her for a walk. Down the steps and out! No problem.

 

After he left she was tired and slept. Later that night when I got home she seemed very happy. He suggested we remove the crate so she cannot hide from him or us when we need to walk her. I was concerned about how she would feel and he gently but firmly told me that the humans decide what is good for the dog and the dog will accept it.

 

So the crate went away and she was very happy to be able to spread out on her blanket to sleep. She had so much energy she started playing with her toys at around midnight, much to my sleeping wife’s chagrin.

 

This morning I still couldn’t get her to go out without carrying her. I really need to figure out how to be Alpha. But now I finally feel like we have a plan that can work. We’re going to get there eventually.

[carronstar]

Perhaps you can try what the trainer did, leash her, walk her around inside a bit and then just head out as a continuation? I completely understand not having a car, could you take her somewhere once or twice a week in a taxi and then walk back? My girlie has no problems at all with walking but I have to admit, she is a car hussy. She will walk up to any car parked on the street that has an open door, or a taxi, a bus, a delivery truck, a police car. She just likes her vehicles. Maybe your girl does too.

 

You are going to get there eventually and it is wonderful to hear you so willing to try!

[XTRAWLD]

Have you tried to go for a long walk close to home since you don't have a car? Walking and getting them used to surroundings really can help.

[GeorgeofNE]

Thanks for all the posts. Having some place to turn for advice really helps.

And you've all convinced my wife. She bought some hotdogs to grill up and try out this afternoon.

 

 

 

 

Just an FYI; hot dogs are fully cooked already. There is no need to grill them for a dog.

 

I read about your "behaviorist" and locking himself in a room with your dog, alone, at which point you heard all kinds of barking--I'd REALLY like to know what he was doing to her to elicit that behavior.

[Guest Swifthounds]

I read about your "behaviorist" and locking himself in a room with your dog, alone, at which point you heard all kinds of barking--I'd REALLY like to know what he was doing to her to elicit that behavior.

 

In all liklihood, given this dog's level of fear/anxiety, merely standing calmly/confidently in a confined area and making eye contact would do it. Once a fearful dog learns that the fear reactions, refusals, and acting out will be ignored, the dog needs to take another tack. Often, it's an approach. If they cant make this fear-inducing thing go away, they have to deal with it. In the process they work through the fear and then get to discover that the thing they feared means no harm.

[XTRAWLD]

Perfectly put Swifthounds.