Update On Sara - Tumor Benign But Still Not Good

[Guest Yankeegreyhound]

What a roller coaster. I can't take it. So, on Friday I got the most wonderful news ever...Sara's tumor is benign!!! The doctor was pleasently surprised by this. We were thrilled.

 

My husband took her to the vet this morning to have the stitches removed. Of course, Sara refused to keep the cone on and she licked and gnawed at her stitches whenever she could. The vet didn't have to remove any of the stitches. They were all gone and the wound is not healing. The doctor says that the tumor has gotten bigger and she thinks that it's hitting a nerve now because Sara is limping.

 

She said she could try to shave down the tumor but she feels at her age, 10, that it's not a good choice. The tumor will probably grow back and she's concerned that it may be touching a nerve and she will loose feeling in her leg.

 

Option 2 is amputation. However, again, at Sara's age, she isn't suggesting this. I know there are tons of tripod greyhounds and I know of many who were made tripods when they were older.

 

Option 3 is the final option and that's what she's leaning towards.

 

We know we have to think about Sara's quality of life, first and foremost. But for anyone who knows Sara, she is so full of life. She's more like a 5 year old than a 10 year old. I just can't imagine having to let her go for a tumor that IS NOT cancer! I just don't get it.

 

I told my husband that we need a second opinion.

 

Any other suggestions???

 

I'm just at such a loss.

[OwnedBySummer]

I feel sick right along with you. And it's a subject I know nothing about. A little more tumor detail might help other GTers to formulate a good and useful response. But I would say to get a 2nd opinion.

[Guest d0ggiem0mma]

That is so rough =( I agree, a second opinion may be a good idea.

 

Did the vet say what the mass was (other than not cancer?) It's hard to believe that something non-cancerous would grow back so quickly that he wouldn't want to further excise the mass. And why does he think it's against a nerve? Maybe she's just limping because the wound is getting infected from licking/chewing?

 

I'm so sorry you and Sara are going through this.

[kudzu]

Get a second and maybe even a third opinion. Perhaps ask for a referral to a specialist. Consider your hound's condition. I think that is as much or more important than her age. Yes, of course their time is here is finite we want it to be the best, not putting them through unnecessary procedures. However, the nice round age of 10 should not be a cuttoff point when deciding whether/how to treat. That's probably not really what your vet is doing but I hope you understand my point.

 

Sending many prayers & wishes that you find an reasonable and effective treatment for Sara.

Edited February 28, 2011 by kudzu

[gazehund]

Definitely get a second and third opinion.

[Magdalyn58]

Do you have a vet near you that has does laser surgery? Our Mittens was diagnosed with very, very aggressive malignant melanoma of the upper gum in July. Our first vet recommended that we put her to sleep. Because it is on her upper mouth, surgical resection was not an option.

 

I then searched in our area for a holistic vet and found one who does laser surgery. Mittens has been going back once a month to have the tumors shaved by laser and she is still alive and happy, although her condition is terminal. : (

 

But she has been given an additional seven months (so far) of a happy life, which would not have been possible without laser surgery.

[Guest 2dogs4cats]

My 10 year old boy, Chance, just had a tumor removed (nerve sheath tumor -his is cancerous). I think they grow by the nerve or on the nerve or something, hence the name. He was knuckling and limping something awful after surgery and everyone was concerned feeling wouldn't return in his leg. He had surgery January 3 and his limp is nearly gone now! You really have to keep them from licking the wound or it won't heal. When I couldn't watch him, he was muzzled (cones don't work). If they still lick through the muzzle, use a poop guard too. I also put Manuka honey on the wound twice a day and kept it covered with jammies. Healing an open wound can take a long time.

 

It seems strange to me that it is growing back so soon or maybe I read the post wrong and you only had a biopsy?

I would also get another opinion. Healing thoughts for your pup. Even at 10, these pups can rebound fast!

[tbhounds]

There might be other options, however, knowing what type of tumor it was will determine your next course of action. Can I assume that your vet just de-bulked the mass and was not trying to achieve clean margins?? Keep in mind Dr Couto at Ohio State just might have a procedure up his sleeve for you, personally I would sign up to become a member of the OSU greyhound health and wellness program and ask the team what they think.

[Guest Yankeegreyhound]

There might be other options, however, knowing what type of tumor it was will determine your next course of action. Can I assume that your vet just de-bulked the mass and was not trying to achieve clean margins?? Keep in mind Dr Couto at Ohio State just might have a procedure up his sleeve for you, personally I would sign up to become a member of the OSU greyhound health and wellness program and ask the team what they think.

 

Yes, she just took a biopsy of the tumor. The tumor is HUGE. At this point, probably the size of a cantelope. When you say achieve clean margins, you mean did she try to remove the tumor? No, it's way too big. And at this point, her feeling is that if we de-bulk it, it will just grow back.

 

I have been in touch with Dr. Marin at OSU. I sent her a happy e-mail on Friday telling her it was benign. I just had to send her an update. Waiting to hear back from her. What are the different types of tumors if they are benign? I always thought benign was good.

[tbhounds]

Benign tumors are still considered cancer--benign cancer. I'm assuming this is a lipoma?? There some lipomas that are considered invasive--that type would be really hard to excise completely as they grow in a fingerlike pattern. If it isn't invasive it can still be excised---I have seen huge, I mean huge--cantelope sized tumors excised with clean margins, however, the rate limiting factor here would be having enough skin to close. After getting OSU's opinion I think I would consult with a board certified surgeon.

Why don't I proof read before clicking that post button?

Edited February 28, 2011 by tbhounds

[Guest Yankeegreyhound]

Thank you so much for the info. I don't think this is a lipoma. I didn't even think to ask what kind of tumor it is. It's hard, not soft. I did a quick google search and while it looks like a lipoma from the outside, what I read says that lipomas are soft. This is definatley not soft.

[Charlies_Dad]

I agree you need at least one more opinion or two. OSU is a greyt place and am sure you will get some guidance there. Not to bring up the sensitive issue, but you mention your vet doesn't suggest amputation, what about your opinion? Have you discounted this altogether? She sounds like a real character if she acts like a 5 year old.

[JJNg]

I strongly agree with the recommendation to get a second opinion, preferably from an oncologist (or internist if no oncologist within reasonable distance) and/or board certified surgeon.

 

I went back to your original thread and saw where you said you first noticed the swelling a month ago? And it has progressed to the size of a canteloupe in that time frame? If that is the case, unfortunately, it does not sound like it is acting like a benign tumor. I'm wondering what the actual diagnosis on the biopsy was, and if the actual behavior of the tumor doesn't fit with the biopsy results, I would have to question the results. This is where having an oncologist or internist review the biopsy report may be helpful.

 

Large tumors that some general practitioners may consider inoperable, may actually be manageable by a board certified, or otherwise very experienced surgeon. There are a number of advanced techniques for skin grafts that may provide options for closure that can't be achieved the regular way. Of course, it still depends on exactly where and how large, but you won't know what might be possible until you consult with a surgeon.

 

Also second the suggestion of a muzzle +/- poop cup to keep her from licking the area to give it a chance to heal. I almost never use elizabethan collars (cones/lampshades) in greyhounds as muzzles are so much better - more comfortable for the dog and much less cumbersome. If you don't have a poop cup, you can cover the front and bottom openings of the muzzle with masking tape or even tin foil in a pinch.

 

Best of luck and will keep you and Sara in my thoughts.

[Guest Yankeegreyhound]

Thanks for the suggestions jjng. Sara is going for a second opinion tomorrow. I got the pathology report last night and it says lipoma but there is swelling also. The tumor must be feeding from somewhere. The problem is, it started out deep in her leg. By the time we could see it, it was big.

[Guest BleuDog]

Sending MANY MANY Prayers, and hope you can get some insight and a handle on this awful thing, with another opinion..........

[Guest d0ggiem0mma]

I just had to do some reading to figure out what was going on.

 

Does the path report say Infiltrative Lipoma? Apparently there is a second, more dangerous version of the lipoma we all are familiar with. The lipoma cells actually wrap around and between muscle and connective tissue. In order to remove the lipoma, you'd have to remove the entire muscle. That's probably why her vet was saying they can't really remove it.

 

Hopefully the folks at OSU can give you a better idea of your options.

 

As for the amputation, I'm with Charlies_Dad. If she's still full of life and doesn't have a lot of arthritis issues, I would consider the amputation. There's no reason to count it out just because of her age. If she's a candidate for the amputation and it would be curative... I would at least think about it! She could have several more happy years!

[Guest Yankeegreyhound]

Thank you d0ggiem0mma for the info. I'm trying to google and research and my mind is spinning. I just checked the pathology report and as part of the clinical history yes, it does say infiltrative mass. However, isn't that just the doctor's opinion? How would they know it was infiltrative?? Maybe when they did the biopsy they could see that???

 

Our doctor is also talking about de-bulking the mass. Her only concern with that is that she thinks the tumor is on a nerve now.

 

I spoke to my husband more about this last night and we will definatley consider amputation now. She has no other issues so we need to do everything we can. This tumor will not kill her. It will make her leg lame and unusable. If that's the case, we'll amputate. Our only concerns are her quality of life after the amputation. It's a rear leg so I need to research some more. My main concern is our stairs. We live in a split level house - 3 levels. She has to have access to the bottom floor because that goes to the back yard. She also needs access to the middle floor because that's where we are. The bedrooms are upstairs and even though she loves snuggling, we can limit that. We'll see.

[kikibean]

Knowing Sara, I think she'd do fine on the stairs. We dog sat an 11 yr old boy who had lost a front leg and had never done stairs before. He figured ours out in about 2 trips.

 

Sara is too stubborn to let a little thing like a missing leg keep her from doing what she wants

[Guest d0ggiem0mma]

The biopsy report should have come from an actual pathology lab so it's an outside view of things. When they looked at the biopsy sample (the piece of tissue they removed) under the microscope they would be able to tell if the cells are just a big hunk of lipoma cells by themselves, or in Sara's case the cells were apparently infiltrating other tissues. It's not really an "opinion" it's more of a very narrow view of the mass, depending on how big of a piece they sent out.

 

Be careful starting down the debulking road. Ask your vet how fast he thinks the tumor will regrow. If it's just going to grow back a month later, is it really worth putting her through an invasive surgery just to amputate in the end? I don't envy the decisions you're having to make =(

[tbhounds]

I know it's really hard but, don't get the cart before the horse. Wait 'till you get your second opinion and have spoken to the pros at Ohio State before you worry too much. You do have options--you just need to see what they are. Keep us updated ok??

[Batmom]

FWIW, our late whippet had an infiltrative lipoma. For a long time it was flat and barely visible so we let it be. Then it started growing, fast. Our regular vet surgeon got off/out as much as he could without destroying muscle or too much skin to close. He didn't get it all.

 

It never came back, that we could see, and post-surgery had no impact on whippet's life or lifespan.

 

The suggestion of consulting a board-certified surgeon is a good one.

[Guest bigorangedog]

If you are leaning toward an amputation, let me know if I can help in any way. I had 2 boys with amps last year -- an 11-yr-old and a 9.5-yr-old. Both did FANTASTIC. If you feel that she can handle it physically, then don't throw out that option. It could be a good one for you. Check out the link in my sig to Leg Amputation info.... Much of it is geared towards hounds with osteo, but the surgery and post-surgery care info would still be relevant for you.

[Guest fringepup]

Hi Yankee! How's your girl doing? How are you doing? We have tons of prayers to send your way! :hope