Guest greytkidsmom Posted February 7, 2011 Share Posted February 7, 2011 My 9 year old boy has pretty bad periodontal disease. He usually gets a dental about every 6 months. We brush with CET toothpaste, use CET water additive, and he gets monthly pulsed antibiotics. We have done the dental vaccine and had many boosters. In October, the vet was very pleased with how his mouth looked and decided to let him go a year between dentals. A few weeks later, he developed a growth on his gums (about the size of a pea) next to his remaining upper incisor (he has an upper and lower on the right). It looked just like the pictures that people have posted of an epulis. He went in for a dental and biopsy in November which showed benign gingival tissue. It is February and the gum in that area has hypertrophied so much that you can hardly see that incisor anymore (bigger than my thumb). The rest of his gums are okay. He seems to be eating all right and his activity level hasn't changed. He is a little clingier than usual - he is typically our "loner" dog unless he wants to be fed or let outside. Of course, we are going to the vet to have her check it out. What I want to know is if anyone has had experience with this. From what I have read, the extra tissue needs to be excised. Does the tissue grow back? If it does grow back, is there any way to prevent it? Does/did it bleed a lot? If it bled, did you use amicar to help reduce the bleeding? Thanks in advance for your insights. (scroll down for a picture...a little gross so don't scroll if you don't want to) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JJNg Posted February 7, 2011 Share Posted February 7, 2011 That seems to be lot more growth than I would typically expect just from gingival hyperplasia. I'd consider removing and/or repeating a biopsy. See what your vet says when she sees it in person. Quote Jennifer & Willow (Wilma Waggle), Wiki (Wiki Hard Ten), Carter (Let's Get It On), Ollie (whippet), Gracie (whippet x), & Terra (whippet) + Just Saying + Just Alice Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tbhounds Posted February 7, 2011 Share Posted February 7, 2011 Yup, repeat the biopsy. Looks too aggressive to just be gingival hyperplasia. When they did the first biopsy were the margins clean? Also-- have you tried biotene antiseptic gel?? Great for gingivitis---just apply to the gumline twice daily- no brush required. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest greytkidsmom Posted February 7, 2011 Share Posted February 7, 2011 Thanks. First available appointment is Monday 2/14. tbhounds - I don't think she went for margins with the first biopsy - she is quite conservative and doesn't take anything out unless its biopsy-proven CA. Of course, in hindsight, I should have asked her to take it all out but that would have probably included his right upper canine and she isn't comfortable taking canines out. I think a vet dentist may be in our future. Of course, this is our car-phobic dog... Do you have a source for the biotene? One of the problems I have with brushing him is that he bleeds so much. The toothbrush is always saturated with blood. He never complains but its got to hurt. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tbhounds Posted February 7, 2011 Share Posted February 7, 2011 Thanks. First available appointment is Monday 2/14. tbhounds - I don't think she went for margins with the first biopsy - she is quite conservative and doesn't take anything out unless its biopsy-proven CA. Of course, in hindsight, I should have asked her to take it all out but that would have probably included his right upper canine and she isn't comfortable taking canines out. I think a vet dentist may be in our future. Of course, this is our car-phobic dog... Do you have a source for the biotene? One of the problems I have with brushing him is that he bleeds so much. The toothbrush is always saturated with blood. He never complains but its got to hurt. I buy my biotene from Entirelypets.com or Healthypets.com--right now they are having a special because it's dental month. The biotene is available as a water additive, mouthwash, maintance gel or an antiseptic gel--the latter is what I would recc for your pup. As far as your hound is concerned I would recc. dental or skull radiographs before you proceed with further surgery. The results will determine how aggressive you need to be with surgery/extractions. Keep us posted. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
packmom Posted February 8, 2011 Share Posted February 8, 2011 Well, Angel was the queen of GH! She had 2 laser proceedures to fix it. And it did start to come back. Turns out it was a rare side effect to one of her heart meds that I thought she was on too large a dose of. OSU adjusted her meds and cut it way back so it did seem to stop the overgrowth. It was never a problem for her after that. The laser really was the best way to go as it really did not bleed at all. My vet office did not have the laser but the same owner had another location that did and it was worth the 30 minute drive twice. They originally thought it would take 4 times! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest greytkidsmom Posted February 8, 2011 Share Posted February 8, 2011 Thanks. First available appointment is Monday 2/14. tbhounds - I don't think she went for margins with the first biopsy - she is quite conservative and doesn't take anything out unless its biopsy-proven CA. Of course, in hindsight, I should have asked her to take it all out but that would have probably included his right upper canine and she isn't comfortable taking canines out. I think a vet dentist may be in our future. Of course, this is our car-phobic dog... Do you have a source for the biotene? One of the problems I have with brushing him is that he bleeds so much. The toothbrush is always saturated with blood. He never complains but its got to hurt. I buy my biotene from Entirelypets.com or Healthypets.com--right now they are having a special because it's dental month. The biotene is available as a water additive, mouthwash, maintance gel or an antiseptic gel--the latter is what I would recc for your pup. As far as your hound is concerned I would recc. dental or skull radiographs before you proceed with further surgery. The results will determine how aggressive you need to be with surgery/extractions. Keep us posted. Thanks, We get lots of stuff from healthypets.com. Will definitely have to try the biotene Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest mcsheltie Posted February 8, 2011 Share Posted February 8, 2011 A friend has a Sheltie with this. Tissue had grown over his teeth when she finally noticed it. They cut all of tissue off and treated with Dexamethisone. She hasn't talked about it since, so I don't know if it has grown back. If you would like me to find more from her PM me. There are several drugs that can cause this. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest greytkidsmom Posted February 14, 2011 Share Posted February 14, 2011 Back from the vet today. Have a referral to Virginia Tech to see the surgeons this Wednesday. She thinks that he will likely have to have some of the maxilla resected along with the mass and she isn't able to do that. Hopefully they can do whatever they need to do in this trip since Kebo really doesn't travel very well. She agreed that amicar would be a good idea if they had to do a lot of resection. He is still eating and drinking but is clearly uncomfortable - he doesn't run and pick up his favorite toy when we come home anymore and he just saunters over to the door when we call him to go outside (his favorite thing ever). With so many sick hounds out there, I hate to be another asking for prayers but if you can spare one or two I'd appreciate it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tbhounds Posted February 15, 2011 Share Posted February 15, 2011 Ah, good luck. Make sure they take chest radiographs while your pup is there. You would think that's a no-brainer but, it really is often overlooked. Will be thinking of you--keep us posted--ok?? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest greytkidsmom Posted February 15, 2011 Share Posted February 15, 2011 Ah, good luck. Make sure they take chest radiographs while your pup is there. You would think that's a no-brainer but, it really is often overlooked. Will be thinking of you--keep us posted--ok?? Thanks - chest x-rays seem to be a good idea to me, I will add it to the list of things to discuss. Do you know of anoyne who has surgery at VT befOre? What should i expect? Is there a pet-friendly hotel nearby? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tbhounds Posted February 15, 2011 Share Posted February 15, 2011 Please call VT and ask about local pet friendly hotels I'm sure there must be a few close by. You might want to see if there's a redroof in the area as they are pet friendly. Safe trip. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest greytkidsmom Posted February 16, 2011 Share Posted February 16, 2011 Update - Appointment was today. They are keeping him overnight, doing a CT scan, and removing the growth and any affected bone afterward. Of course, cancer is in the differential but only pathology will tell. Regardless, he is not eating much and is clearly in pain so even if it is cancer, the surgery should make him more comfortable. However, his handsome nose will never be the same again. We discussed amicar and they will do a clotting profile before surgery and use amicar if the test is abnormal. I'm afraid I insulted the surgery resident because I asked if she would be doing the surgery and would I get to meet her attending. She just didn't present herself as confidently as a seasoned surgeon does (as well she shouldn't, she is still in training). She did eventually bring her attending in and we had a good discussion of surgical plan, risks/benefits, etc and I feel comfortable with the plan. All there is to do now is to worry. He has a student assigned to his case who will call with updates. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest greytbookert Posted February 16, 2011 Share Posted February 16, 2011 Sending good thoughts! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest greytkidsmom Posted February 16, 2011 Share Posted February 16, 2011 So he had the CT scan this afternoon (an opening became available). They have to take the maxilla all the way back to the socket of the left upper canine. He is third case - will go sometime in the afternoon tomorrow. Not sure what I will do with myself until then. Suppose the house will get a thorough cleaning. Thanks for the support. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tbhounds Posted February 16, 2011 Share Posted February 16, 2011 Will be thinking of you. I do want to mention that most hounds that bleed post op have normal clotting values. Keep the amicar handy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EllenEveBaz Posted February 17, 2011 Share Posted February 17, 2011 Sending all good thoughts to Kebo and you. Good job asking to meet all the surgical staff and discussion of plan. And thank goodness they'll call with updates! How did Kebo handle the trip to Blacksburg? What's the estimated recovery time? Quote Ellen, with brindle Milo and the blonde ballerina, Gelsey remembering Eve, Baz, Scout, Romie, Nutmeg, and Jeter Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest mcsheltie Posted February 17, 2011 Share Posted February 17, 2011 Update - Appointment was today. They are keeping him overnight, doing a CT scan, and removing the growth and any affected bone afterward. Of course, cancer is in the differential but only pathology will tell. Regardless, he is not eating much and is clearly in pain so even if it is cancer, the surgery should make him more comfortable. However, his handsome nose will never be the same again. We discussed amicar and they will do a clotting profile before surgery and use amicar if the test is abnormal. I'm afraid I insulted the surgery resident because I asked if she would be doing the surgery and would I get to meet her attending. She just didn't present herself as confidently as a seasoned surgeon does (as well she shouldn't, she is still in training). She did eventually bring her attending in and we had a good discussion of surgical plan, risks/benefits, etc and I feel comfortable with the plan. All there is to do now is to worry. He has a student assigned to his case who will call with updates. FYI, Greyhound bleeding disorder has nothing to do with their clotting factor. The results can be completely normal and your dog could be a bleeder. There is no test for this. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest greytkidsmom Posted February 17, 2011 Share Posted February 17, 2011 FYI, Greyhound bleeding disorder has nothing to do with their clotting factor. The results can be completely normal and your dog could be a bleeder. There is no test for this. Thanks. Unfortunately I know this. I have read that you can do a TEG which is a platelet function assay - it is used in humans who are on antiplatelet agents. I'm not sure if it is available in vet hospitals. It sounds like she is going to do a bleeding time which isn't even the same pathway in the clotting cascade. In the end, I have to trust the surgeon's judgement and experience that bleeding complications aren't the same for this procedure as they are for amps. They have amicar on hand and the attending vet was receptive to my concerns and familiar with its use. That is really all I can ask for. Sending all good thoughts to Kebo and you. Good job asking to meet all the surgical staff and discussion of plan. And thank goodness they'll call with updates! How did Kebo handle the trip to Blacksburg? What's the estimated recovery time? Thanks - he handled the trip fine. Had to wrangle him into the car as always (with xanax) but he didn't get up much during the trip. A sure sign he doesn't feel well. Usually he is up and down and spinning 'round. They expect he will have to stay in ICU for about 2 days afterward - until he is eating and drinking all right and his pain is controlled. Fortunately there was a schedule anomaly at work which gives me the next week off. Hopefully he will be home over the weekend and I can be around to watch him before heading back. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sweetdogs Posted February 17, 2011 Share Posted February 17, 2011 Very best wishes for your boy today. Sounds like you've covered all the bases & let the staff know what's what. Glad you'll be able to be home to watch over him for a while. Quote Deirdre with Conor (Daring Pocobueno), Keeva (Kiowa Mimi Mona), & kittehs Gemma & robthomas. Our beloved angels Faolin & Liath, & kittehs Mona & Caesar. Remembering Bobby, Doc McCoy, & Chip McGrath. "He feeds you, pets you, adores you, collects your poop in a bag. There's only one explanation: you are a hairy little god." Nick Galifinakis Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest greytkidsmom Posted February 17, 2011 Share Posted February 17, 2011 He is out of surgery and recovering in the ICU. His student will call me later this evening with another update. Hopefully we will be allowed to see him tomorrow. We sure miss him here. Lucas and Tiel look for him each time one of us come in the door. the requisite picture... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest vahoundlover Posted February 18, 2011 Share Posted February 18, 2011 Wonderful news! My continued good thoughts and prayers are with Kebo. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EllenEveBaz Posted February 18, 2011 Share Posted February 18, 2011 Good news so far. He's a gorgeous boy. Quote Ellen, with brindle Milo and the blonde ballerina, Gelsey remembering Eve, Baz, Scout, Romie, Nutmeg, and Jeter Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Busderpuddle Posted February 18, 2011 Share Posted February 18, 2011 Praying for a fast recovery for your boy. Quote Karen Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest greytkidsmom Posted February 18, 2011 Share Posted February 18, 2011 Morning update - He got a little panicked last night so they sedated him. He was laying down and looking pitiful afterward according to the vet student. (Looking pitiful is a specialty of his) This morning they say his face is really swollen. He took a couple of licks of water but didn't want any more. They have him on IV fluids, pain meds, and antibiotics. I asked about visiting but the student said he would have to talk it over with the clinician. I sure hope we get to see him soon. Of course, now the wait for pathology starts. He has always had such problems with his gums that when this turned up we just assumed it was progression of that disease. It never occurred to us that it could be cancer. I had considered myself prepared about what to do if any of our dogs got osteo in a leg but this just wasn't on my radar. Guess that it is what it is and we'll deal with it when we know. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.