Please Help With Alpha Dog

[Walliered]

I have had alpha male dog one year. Second male dog (very shy and laid back) came about 4 months ago. Three times alpha dog has torn into shy dog for NO REASON. First time was stitches and drain. Second and third times were near misses, but no vet involved. Last night both dogs were on their beds 5 feet apart and asleep for several hours. I went to the kitchen and saw alpha dog stand and RUN over to shy dog and then all hell broke loose. What is going on and how can I prevent it from happening? I always crate shy dog when I leave the room for more than 1 minute, but last night I had just walked out the room. Please help.

[Guest PhillyPups]

First I would crate "alpha dog" for shy dogs safety.

 

Is it that he is a bully with all other dogs or just shy dog? If he bullies all the other dogs, then he may need to be an only child. This is not unheard of, uncommon in the breed yes, but unheard of no. I would try to bring the shy dog out of its shell a bit and I would want to give him confidence, however, with "alpha dog" nailing him so many times, he will only continue to be more scared.

 

You have had shy dog just a few months, would it be best, for his safety, to rehome him? It may be that they never learn to get along, and my heart goes for the one getting beaten up all the time.

[Walliered]

Thanks for e-mailing me. Since I only have 2 dogs, I do not know how alpha dog does with other dogs except in obiedence class. He does not pay any attention to the others there. I usually put shy dog in crate because he really likes it there and because alpha dog balks at the idea. I leave no toys down for them. I feed shy dog in his crate and alpha in another room. Same way with bully sticks. Alpha dog likes to stand over shy dog and I correct that every time I see it. Alpha also glares at the other one all of the time, but will stop when I correct. They do walk on the leads well together, but I walk one on left side and one on right side. I hate to think about rehoming as I have grown very fond of the shy dog. He actually was an A racer and took some kind of Juvenile award for Derby Lane in 2008. But, will have to admit it was a lot easier with only one dog!!

[Batmom]

What was happening the first 3 times? Location, activities in the 3-5 minutes beforehand, etc.?

 

It's possible that dog #1 is a bully, or you've got the relatively rare two who just don't get along, or dog #2 is wearing the "kick me" sign (ask some of the racing folks about dogs they turn out alone, boys they turn out with the girls, etc.) ....

[Guest PhillyPups]

Second dog has not been there that long (4 months) and if he is getting picked on by the original dog, and it is being done sneakily by the original dog, I, personally would not risk the safety of second dog, not caring how he ran or how attached I was, I would re-home him for HIS safety. I would not want to make a dog feel unsafe for any reason in my home. If it has happened multiple times, then the situation needs to be changed.

 

Can you leash alpha dog to you, so shy dog is free to move around the house? It sounds like putting second dog in the crate with alpha dog being allowed to roam free that even though you are making sure shy dog is safe, alpha dog thinks he can do the behavior, in fact, get rewarded for it as he has freedom to go everywhere. Do you want shy dog to end up living in your closet to feel safe?

 

I am just thinking of the safety of shy dog, and nothing else. I would much rather come home to an only dog, rehoming shy dog, than come home to one dog that has attacked shy dog so much he cannot be saved. Just my very humble opinion here.

 

Good luck in whatever you decide.

Edited February 6, 2011 by PhillyPups

[Guest GreysAndMoreGreys]

I know many do not agree with laying hands on these dogs but if the shy dog is doing nothing and alpha dog is just being mean and nasty, I would use the VOG with him and give him a good swat on his butt and let him know that the real head honcho is not happy about his actions.

What repercussions are there for alpha dog right now when he pulls a stunt like this?

 

Some dogs are bullies because they can be and with the shy dog in the house, the bully is getting away with it.

Not much of a life for the shy hound being picked on and beat up. Three times in just 4 months? Ya I would say it's not working and for the welfare and well being of the shy hound he might be best in a new situation.

The reason I'm saying to return the shy hound is at this point, really no matter what action is taken with the bully, the shy hound is always going to be leery around him.

 

Some dogs will pick on weaker or submissive dogs. Why? I have no idea other then they are like the school yard bully. And like Batmom said, those bully dogs you have to pick and chose who they are turned out with.

Very often if the bully is a male, you put him out with the females. Those females can put him in his place in about 2.3 seconds.

[gazehund]

What was your reaction to alpha dog running over to stand over the shy dog last night?

[Guest PhillyPups]

I have learned that there are very few "true alpha" dogs in the world. A true alpha would never have to attack, they lead by body language, by looks, by thought. A true alpha (and I had one) can walk down the street and without doing anything, other dogs will give way to them. It was subtle things that you notice. It was an amazing thing to experience. Runner never growled, never snapped, never went after another dog, and he protected SugarBear. He led by intelligence.

 

Now on the other hand a bully is just that, a bully, and will continually try to kick the snot out of another dog until bully finds one that he can not beat, but that dog cleans its clock and the bully may calm down, just like human bullies.

 

If you are attached and shy dog did such a greyt job working, is it fair to keep him in a dangerous (for him) situation, doesn't he deserve to feel safe at home?

[TheFullHouse]

I have had alpha male dog one year. Second male dog (very shy and laid back) came about 4 months ago. Three times alpha dog has torn into shy dog for NO REASON. First time was stitches and drain. Second and third times were near misses, but no vet involved. Last night both dogs were on their beds 5 feet apart and asleep for several hours. I went to the kitchen and saw alpha dog stand and RUN over to shy dog and then all hell broke loose. What is going on and how can I prevent it from happening? I always crate shy dog when I leave the room for more than 1 minute, but last night I had just walked out the room. Please help.

 

 

I've had two like this. It took me over 2 years to get each of the straightened out so that they could live happily with the rest of the pack. It takes a lot of work and I mean a lot of work. They were not, under any circumstances allowed to bully the other dogs, if they did, they received immediate correction and I mean immediate. Valentino liked running down the stairs and then going after every dog that came down after him. My solution, I made him wait until last. He was not happy but tough, he was not going to attack the other dogs just because he was first. JoeyB had misplaced aggression and I would literally have to pull him off of another dog when the door bell would ring or something causing any sort of excitement would happen. I did this for a year and a half before it finally clicked in his head that he was going to receive a correction from me every time he misbehaved in that manner. I've used the squirt bottle, crated for a time out, and both boys are still crated at night. They live happily with the rest of the pack now without any attacks or harsh words but you have to be willing to take a stand as leader of the pack and be absolutely consistent and be willing to reward when you get the behavior you're looking for.

 

This boy is a bully and I pull in the reigns tight on a bully. They are not allowed to stand over another dog in my home. I tell them to go lay down, if they refuse to go then I get up and physically make them move, I've even used a squirt bottle to make them move.

 

Personally I'd crate the dog doing the attacking. If it keeps up you will find your submissive boy won't want to come out of his crate at all. If you don't have the time to commit to dealing with this dog, then I'd rehome him, with full disclosure so new adopters know what they're in for.

Edited February 6, 2011 by JillysFullHouse

[BauersMom]

What you have is a bully, not an alpha dog.

 

I have been in this situation and you have to decide whether or not this is a situation you can handle. It's very dangerous for both dogs - and will take a serious about of vigilance and diligence on your part to keep everyone safe.

 

I would recommend you find a local trainer who has experience handling difficult dogs and have them do an evaluation and recommend next steps. I hesitate giving any specific instructions because without seeing what's happening, any advice could make the situation worse instead of better.

 

Good luck.

[OwnedBySummer]

I also agree, you have a bully. I met a true alpha and it was fascinating. As other people have posted, the true alpha doesn't need to be aggressive. The one I know is not the biggest or the strongest. In fact, he wears a leg brace to runs. And once he has peed on everyone's pee, no one but no one pees on HIS pee!

[BootsyCollins]

Do these dogs have names? It would be so much easier to keep track.

 

Sounds like a bratty bully to me. I'm no training expert, but so what if he "balks" at being crated? Put his butt in there! Use the muzzle whenever he is loose in the house. Keep him on a leash. Just a few ideas.

 

I would think very long and hard about if you have the time and energy to constantly (without fail) correct his behavior. I know I wouldn't, so I'm not saying this from a judgmental standpoint. If you don't, I would rehome the second grey. He didn't do anything to deserve being beat up on, and being fond of him is nice, but at what price to his quality of life?

 

Good luck. I don't envy you this situation at all. I like easy dogs.

[BatterseaBrindl]

I am not a dog trainer, but have owned multiple dogs over the past 20++ years.

I had one bully and it was hard HARD work to get and keep her in line.

 

The Alpha of my current pack is a 14 yr old GSDx who is very lame with arthritis and very often afraid of her own shadow......but she is atill Alpha.

Just a 'look' from her, flick of the ear or nod of the head and the others fall into place.

No agression at all.

 

I totally agree with PhillyPups....the shy dog should be rehomed ASAP...not only for his personal safety, but for his mental stability.

 

Bully dog needs to be disciplined sternly by head of house...you!

 

Meanwhile, crate Bully and let shy boy have some freedom.

[Guest Swifthounds]

I know many do not agree with laying hands on these dogs but if the shy dog is doing nothing and alpha dog is just being mean and nasty, I would use the VOG with him and give him a good swat on his butt and let him know that the real head honcho is not happy about his actions.What repercussions are there for alpha dog right now when he pulls a stunt like this?Some dogs are bullies because they can be and with the shy dog in the house, the bully is getting away with it.Not much of a life for the shy hound being picked on and beat up. Three times in just 4 months? Ya I would say it's not working and for the welfare and well being of the shy hound he might be best in a new situation.The reason I'm saying to return the shy hound is at this point, really no matter what action is taken with the bully, the shy hound is always going to be leery around him.Some dogs will pick on weaker or submissive dogs. Why? I have no idea other then they are like the school yard bully. And like Batmom said, those bully dogs you have to pick and chose who they are turned out with.Very often if the bully is a male, you put him out with the females. Those females can put him in his place in about 2.3 seconds.

 

I'm with Heather on this. Freedoms and privileges are earned in my home. Are there disagreements? Yes, but none of the dogs I have had would ever risk actual physical violence resulting in injury to another dog. There's a pecking order, but I'm always at the top and it's clear to all that I tolerate none of the bullying nonsense.

 

 

I have learned that there are very few "true alpha" dogs in the world. A true alpha would never have to attack, they lead by body language, by looks, by thought. A true alpha (and I had one) can walk down the street and without doing anything, other dogs will give way to them. It was subtle things that you notice. It was an amazing thing to experience. Runner never growled, never snapped, never went after another dog, and he protected SugarBear. He led by intelligence. Now on the other hand a bully is just that, a bully, and will continually try to kick the snot out of another dog until bully finds one that he can not beat, but that dog cleans its clock and the bully may calm down, just like human bullies. If you are attached and shy dog did such a greyt job working, is it fair to keep him in a dangerous (for him) situation, doesn't he deserve to feel safe at home?

 

I too have had a natural alpha. My Prancer was that way. I never met a kinder, and more accommodating dog. No one questioned his position and yet he would share beds and space and all things good with his #2, Vixen and with his brother. Other dogs would get near him - even when he was inside an expen and other other dog on the outside - and they would shy away or become submissive, especially dogs that were "alphas" by force in their own packs.

[Walliered]

Thanks everyone for the information. Yes, the dogs have names..LOL The bully dog is named Da Vid and the shy one is Huck. They are both 85 lb. 5 year old males. Since the up roar a couple of nights ago everything has been calm. I am keeping the turn out muzzle on Da Vid, but both are laying in the living room peasefully and I am in the computer room completely out of their view. It is just a crazy situation as most of the time all is well. When I take them to the kennels the owner says he has never had one bit of problem. I know in class Da Vid does not pay any attention to the other dogs, nor does he pay attention to the many dogs at Pet Smart. I only go to Pet Smart to get to the classes, otherwise I think it is dumb to take your dog there...too many kids and dogs running wild. When I let them out in the yard (muzzles on) they run and romp with no problem..I think it might get to be too much for Huck if I left them out there alone, but I don't. In the car (muzzles on) I have absolutely no problem. The first time it happened, I had left them alone without muzzles and gone to the store...my fault. That is also when I used to keep the toy basket down for them to get into..not anymore. All toys are up. Most of the time they both follow me everywhere even to the bathroom so I don't know if leashing Da Vid to me would work. There is a dog shrink up in Athens at the University of Georgia and for $200.00 an hour she will work with your problem dog. Don't think I can go that route. But, thanks everyone for helping me.