U T Is

[Guest mhall]

Emily has had problems with limping on and off since September due to what we are pretty sure is Lumbosacral Stenosis. We got the limping under control with pain meds, and she's been doing well for about a month or so. She started limping badly again a few days ago. We decided to rest her for a few days then get her to the vet if we didn't see improvement.

 

Tonight she urinated in the house, something she's never done before. She's also now urinating more frequently than usual when outside and her urine is very dilute, like she's been drinking a lot. She had a urinalysis done last week (to make sure her meds weren't affecting kidney function) and had crystals in her urine but there were no other indications of infection so the vet said to just be sure to call if we saw any sign of a UTI.

 

Can a UTI cause lumbar pain and limping? I'm hoping now that the limp is due to a UTI and not worsening LS as a UTI should be easier to fix.

 

We will definitely get her (or at least a urine sample) to the vet tomorrow. I'm just worried about her.

[NeylasMom]

Have you had x-rays done?

 

When you take the sample in tomorrow, make sure it's fresh and more importantly has not been refrigerated. Refrigerated urine can cause crystals to form. You might also want to do a culture to be absolutely certain one way or the other.

[Guest mhall]

Have you had x-rays done?

 

When you take the sample in tomorrow, make sure it's fresh and more importantly has not been refrigerated. Refrigerated urine can cause crystals to form. You might also want to do a culture to be absolutely certain one way or the other.

 

Thanks for the advice! We will be sure to bring the vet a fresh urine sample and do know not to refrigerate it. I don't want her pee anywhere near my food anyway! I'll also ask about doing a culture.

 

X-rays were done back in September or early October when her initial limp didn't improve with the rest. They x-rayed both back legs, her hips and a portion of her back. She has a slight malformation in one of the vertebrae near the base of her spine. Based on the x-rays and a consultation with an orthopedic surgeon we're pretty sure she has LS. I know as LS advances it can cause incontinence, but given how suddenly this started I'm pretty sure that at least part of her problems are due to a UTI.

[greyhead]

We've been dealing with both issues ourselves in Shane. He doesn't have LS, but he has skewed hips that mess him up for walking well. We're going to do rehab for that but have been getting him by on acupuncture/chiropractic the last two years.

 

He'd become "incontinent" about nine months ago, at age 7, and the vet said it was probably age. Didn't do well on Proin either. But she said she looked at the urine and was *sure* it wasn't a UTI. So we took her word for it. Finally, about three months ago, he refused a meal for the first time and got kind of lethargic. I requested a urine culture at that point and it was positive for E. coli. He's now on his fourth round of antibiotics. (Sometimes I find I just have to tell the vet what I want done. It's our dog and our money!)

 

But to address your main question: yes, whenever Shane's UTI has flared, he has had a hard time jumping up the three stairs to the deck as he usually would, and his walking becomes very much slowed. It also seems to cause him some pain even though there's no apparent kidney involvement. And I do think it's possible that when the nerves and/or bony structures at the dog's back end are out of kilter, it can affect the efficiency of the internal plumbing because the dogs don't hold themselves as squarely. For example, the MRI we had done recently showed that only his right anal sac was distended, not the left. Btw, although the hip skewness was visible to the naked eye, it didn't show up as much on the x-ray, which is why the vet recommended the MRI. The MRI showed it very definitively. It appears to be an old injury that has healed, but the "wear and tear of life" since then has led to a cascade of dropping muscles and shifting bones.

 

Our other dog does have LS, as far as can be determined without an MRI. Acupuncture and chiropractic have gotten him along very well for the last two years too, and he hasn't needed any medicine for it. So I do recommend that kind of treatment if you have a certified practitioner. And I do think a urine culture would be a good idea. Unfortunately, those cultures don't always find infections even when they're present; so you may have to repeat it later if things have persisted.

 

Hope everything comes together for you and Emily!

 

 

[JohnF]

Talk to a human who has a UTI that's run up towards to kidneys and they will tell you they have a very painful achey bad back that makes walking awkward. They don't limp so much as stand awkwardly and not react balance-wise so well. So it might be a component of your dog's limping but 'pinched' and 'damaged' nerves and ligament/disk issues are going to be the main culprit behind limping.

[Batmom]

If you're going to be more than an hour getting the sample to the vet, you need to refrigerate it. The changes that occur in an unrefrigerated sample over time outweigh those that occur in a refrigerated sample.

[GreyTzu]

UTI's are very painful and can cause referred pain. The increase in drinking and peeing could be a sign of other issues as we, including diabetes. I would also have the Vet check the blood pressure. However, a lot of Vets do not have the equipment to check BP. If your Vet does not, ask where they refer their clients for BP check. Often Vets will work with another Vet for BP checks for a nominal fee. The second Vet does the BP's and sends the info back to your Vet for treatment. LS is not diagnosed by x-ray. An x-ray will rule out other issues which will narrow down the list of possibilities.

 

Fingers crossed that the UTI is a quick fix and the limping goes away with the UTI.

[Guest mhall]

Thanks for all the responses. Just dropped off a urine sample at the vet. They are going to do a culture. If it comes back negative I will ask for a BP check & also about the possibility of diabetes.

 

The x-rays were done to rule out osteosarcoma & arthritis. Due to the slight spinal malformation & how Em reacted to having her pelvis & back manipulated the ortho surgeon gave us a tentative diagnosis of LS. He does want us to consider getting an MRI to confirm. I am very interested in acupuncture and will try to get a recommendation for a good practioner from my vet. I know Depo-medrol shots can help as well but we were hoping to hold off on those sincei understand they tend to lose effectiveness/can cause liver damage and Em is only 4.5.

 

Had no idea one was supposed to refridgerate urine samples more than an hour old - was always under the impression you shouldn't for some reason. We typically take samples straight to the vet anyway, but very good to know.

 

Em seems to be walking better today and is happily snoozing at the moment. I will update when we know more. Thanks again!

[NeylasMom]

If you're going to be more than an hour getting the sample to the vet, you need to refrigerate it. The changes that occur in an unrefrigerated sample over time outweigh those that occur in a refrigerated sample.

What are the changes you're referring to? I've recently read studies that state storage at room temperature does not affect pH, specific gravity, or ability to culture bacteria in addition to being better at preventing crystal formation. I know it's always been generally thought to be good practice to refrigerate your urine if you can't take it in immediately so I'm curious since I'm finding contradictory information.

[Guest Stripeyfan]

No advice but I hope you can get this sorted out soon.

[GeorgeofNE]

Have you had x-rays done?

 

When you take the sample in tomorrow, make sure it's fresh and more importantly has not been refrigerated. Refrigerated urine can cause crystals to form. You might also want to do a culture to be absolutely certain one way or the other.

 

Thanks for the advice! We will be sure to bring the vet a fresh urine sample and do know not to refrigerate it. I don't want her pee anywhere near my food anyway! I'll also ask about doing a culture.

 

X-rays were done back in September or early October when her initial limp didn't improve with the rest. They x-rayed both back legs, her hips and a portion of her back. She has a slight malformation in one of the vertebrae near the base of her spine. Based on the x-rays and a consultation with an orthopedic surgeon we're pretty sure she has LS. I know as LS advances it can cause incontinence, but given how suddenly this started I'm pretty sure that at least part of her problems are due to a UTI.

 

I just have to say that I have had to take many, many urine samples to the vet from two different dogs. I have NEVER been told not to refrigerate it, nor has any of it ever had crystals. In fact I've been told that I SHOULD refrigerate it when I collect it, until I bring it in.

 

Also, my George has LS. Typically it causes fecal incontinence, not urinary. I had him to a fancy schmancy specialist with degrees out the wazoo, and that's what she told me.

 

 

 

 

 

[Batmom]

Refrigeration can precipitate some crystals but most of those disappear when you let it come back to room temp. Chemistry is not changed. In contrast, holding more than an hour or two withOUT refrigeration changes the chemistry -- it affects pH, glucose, ketones, bilirubin, nitrites, bacterial growth ... It can also cause casts to disappear, and you really want to see those.

[Guest mhall]

Finally got test results back (delayed due to the storm here) and there was absolutely no sign of urinary tract infection. Em hasn't been gulping water the past few days and hasn't had any more accidents inside. I think the one peeing inside incident was just her deciding to sneak off to the kitchen rather than letting us know she needed to go out because going down stairs and walking on ice hurt

 

Vet & I formulated a plan to hopefully get Emily's pain and limping under control. We're adding tramadol and corticosteroids to her current medication. Our vet is not a huge fan of Depo-Medrol injections but is willing to try them if oral steroids don't work. We're also going to set up an appointment with an acupuncturist.

 

Since we're pretty sure it's LS and based on what I've read so far I'm not keen on surgical intervention we're holding off on the MRI.

[Batmom]

What is her current medication? Note that you CANNOT give steroids with NSAIDs (aspirin, rimadyl, metacam, meloxicam, deramaxx, etc.).

[Guest mhall]

Sorry - trying to multitask and I wasn't at all clear in my last post!

 

We are going to start with tramadol and then add in steroids if we don't see improvement in a few days with tramadol alone. She is currently on metacam and the vet warned us we would have to take her off the metacam and wait until it was out of her system before beginning any steroid treatment.

[greyhead]

Finally got test results back (delayed due to the storm here) and there was absolutely no sign of urinary tract infection. Em hasn't been gulping water the past few days and hasn't had any more accidents inside. I think the one peeing inside incident was just her deciding to sneak off to the kitchen rather than letting us know she needed to go out because going down stairs and walking on ice hurt

 

Vet & I formulated a plan to hopefully get Emily's pain and limping under control. We're adding tramadol and corticosteroids to her current medication. Our vet is not a huge fan of Depo-Medrol injections but is willing to try them if oral steroids don't work. We're also going to set up an appointment with an acupuncturist.

 

Since we're pretty sure it's LS and based on what I've read so far I'm not keen on surgical intervention we're holding off on the MRI.

Sounds like a good plan! Acupuncture/chiro have done wonders for our LS dog for two years, right after the first treatment, no meds at all. We skipped the MRI for the same reason. And Depo-Medrol will only work for a year or so, as I understand it. So starting with "chiro-puncture", as we call it, buys a lot more time! But the steroids may make drinking/peeing a problem again, so I hope you don't have to use them long.

[Batmom]

Ah, good mom and good vet re the meds! Most vets know that protocol but every now and then you find one who doesn't.

[Guest mhall]

Ah, good mom and good vet re the meds! Most vets know that protocol but every now and then you find one who doesn't.

 

I'm very glad you mentioned it in case I hadn't known!