How Long To Try New Food?

[Guest Fergus]

We need advice. We are new to living with a greyhound, and we do not know how long to try a new food before giving up (among other things diet related). We are trying our best to read up on greyhounds and we are being pretty careful to follow the directions of more experienced greyhound folks. Our guy was adopted 4 months ago. He was on the Kirkland chicken & rice at the kennel, so we kept him on that for the first month. We were told that the lamb & rice did not agree with him. But he had runny poo and bad gas after a month on the chicken & rice, plus itchy skin and an ear infection, so we switched to Nature's Domain grain-free fish & sweet potato (from Costco, but made by Diamond), and we also took him to the vet for fecal test (negative) and general wellness visit. At first there seemed to be some improvement on the new food, but pretty quickly he reverted back to having some combo of pudding poo and runny poo. There is also a lot of poo...more than we think there should be (4-5 "events" a day). We transitioned to the new food very gradually, by the way. He was dewormed at the kennel prior to coming to us (one round of Panacur, I think.)

 

So, after about three weeks on the second food, we tried adding (one at a time for about a week) pumpkin (seemed to make him worse), then yogurt (no difference), then digestive enzymes (made him worse). We are now starting our second week on another new food: Acana Pacfic Stream (it's pretty pricey, but appears to be very high quality as kibble goes), but there has been no noticeable improvement in the poo. We bought a pretty small bag of the Acana, so I don't feel committed to feeding it for an entire month. At this point, I have no idea what to do and I'm feeling pretty frustrated and hopeless. We love our hound very much, but the runny poo has totally trashed our back lawn to the point where we don't let our kids use it, and taking him for a walk is nerve-wracking because he tends to let loose right on a neighbor's front walkway, which is then impossible to clean up.

 

Should we switch to yet another food after we complete this second week on the Acana? We have so far given each of the other two foods a full month before switching. By the way, we do not give treats at this point, because we are serious about eliminating irritants/allergens.

 

Thanks for any help!

[Guest NJgrey]

Could just be his insides adjusting to his new life. Our girl had mushy-ish poop on everything for the first month or so we had her, and like yours, she would go 5-6 times a day. She settled down eventually and it lessened over time to 2-3 times per day. She's on Wellness Core reduced fat and does well on it, but that may be rich for some hounds.

 

Lots of people at my adoption group use Pro-plan and that seems to work well for their dogs. A lot of the very super top of the line foods aren't always the best for poops. Also, make sure you're not feeding too much - that can cause mushiness as well.

[Trihounds]

This is probably one of the most common GH challenges at the start. Finding the right food is often trial and error and there is no "one" food that works for every dog. So, a recommended food may or may not be the one for your pup. There are, however, a lot of folks here who have found success with Taste of the Wild Pacific Stream. We tried it and it didn't really work for us.

 

A month on a certain food is probably (at least in my experience) the minimum amount of time to try it before formulating an opinion. Some may transition faster, though. For the first 6-7 months after getting our dogs, we tried about 4 -5 different kibbles before switching to raw feeding (which eliminated all digestive issues overnight). Due to the cost, we tried to transition off raw about 6 months ago to TOTW Pacific and it didn't work for our guys. The gas was back and the quantity of soft poop was too much to deal with, so we gave up again and went back to raw. The bones in a raw food diet firm up the stools and can even cause constipation if given in too great a proportion.

 

If you haven't already, right down the first 5 or so ingredients on the foods you've tried and see if you can find an ingredient or two in common. If you can find a food with a different protein source that hasn't been tried yet, give that food a shot. Or at least find something that doesn't contain what you think could be causing the softness. For some dogs, too rich a food in too great a quantity will give them the runs.

 

Good luck. Welcome to GT and when you have a chance, please post a pic of your pup!

[TheFullHouse]

Since you've tried a food with chicken and one with fish, and apparently he has allergy symptoms, you might try Taste Of The Wild, there are several different varieties and it's an excellent food. I'd give the High Prairie formula a try since it's protein source is Bison. Brucie'sdad also had a good suggestion and see what ingredients are common between the food's you've tried so far.

 

I'd give each food at least a month to six weeks as an adjustment period.

[Guest mcsheltie]

I would also talk to your vet about a round of Metronidazole for him. Giardia is common coming off the track and is hard to find in stool samples. In addition, when they are having a hard time with a food they can develop a bacteria overgrowth. Your new food might be fine. But until you address that, the diarrhea will continue.

[Guest Fergus]

Thanks very much for the responses! We are going to start by trying a different vet and asking about Metronidazole. It makes sense that we should rule out bacterial issues in the gut before we make any more kibble changes. I have compiled my ingredients lists too. This helps...just having a new focus so that we can feel that we are moving in a positive direction.

[cleptogrey]

yup, my first thought.. metronidazole aka flagyl...the MIRACLE drug! it does a fantastic job cleaning up the intenstines and will keep you saine! i would get out the rice cooker, if you have one, and give that pup over cooked white rice and 25% ground boiled beef or turkey and let things settle down. very slowly after you start getting frim poops introduce a tad of kibble at each meal. this could take a couple of weeks, rice is cheap. (i have never had any luck w/ pumpkin). also some pups need more than one round of flagyl to clean things up. be slow and steady w/ the intro of food.

 

also purina's fori-forta is excellent, check it out- probiotics

[MaryJane]

Get him on a diet of rice with hamburger (add some cooked cut up green beans for fiber) and see if that will stabilize him and get the poops better. You should see improvement in 1 to 2 days if it is helping. I would recommend beef and not chicken as the protein because in my experience, I've seen more chicken "sensitivity" than beef in greyhounds. You could also add some cooked oatmeal (two tablespoons or so) to the food because that has fiber. If that diet works, after about a week or two add in about 1/2 cup kibble twice a day using a limited ingredient diet (like Natural Balance venison and sweet potato). If it is not agreeing with the dog you will see it within 1 to 2 days. If the poop stays OK over 3 to 4 days, increase the kibble to about 3/4 cup twice a day and see if the poop is still OK. I've found that the "1 cup" amount of kibble is usually what set off my fosters to get runny poop again if they are going to get it.

 

Good Luck

[Guest Stripeyfan]

One round of worm treatment may not have been enough. We wormed Kelly when we got him because his last owner hadn't done it, but he already had roundworm larvae dormant in his body and 5 weeks later he had such a large parasite infestation it caused intestinal damage, which has left him with IBD. We now have to home cook for him as all processed dog foods disagree with him, even the ones for sensitive digestive systems. Also, once everything else is (hopefully) ruled out, you could try slippery elm, which helps coat and soothe the GI tract.

 

Hope you can solve this, and we'd love to see a picture of your guy when you've got a chance to post one...

[Guest Fergus]

Not much to update yet. We had a visit with the vet and are waiting for results of fecal parasite and giardia tests. In the meantime, I'm doing more food research. The main thing I'm thinking is, if it turns out that there are no parasite of bacteria issues, I want to try him on a food with lower fat content. He seemed to do the worst on the Acana, which is the "highest quality" food with the highest protein and fat content. Sensitive stomachs can have the hardest time with overly rich (i.e. high fat) foods. So far, the best candidate seems to be Solid Gold wolf king (bison), which has 22% protein and only 9% fat. (As a comparison, the Royal Canin veterinary diet food for sensitive stomachs -- potato rabbit and potato venison -- have 22% protein and 11% fat.)

 

Does anyone have experience with Solid Gold?

[Guest KsFrets]

Our first 2 1/2 years we spent a ton of money on premium dog foods for the M&M's. It seemed like our back yard was a never ending collection of Dairy Queen. Then we got an offer to buy an off brand kibble in bulk for very cheap. I was concerend at first, but when we found out it was used by several others in our group, as well as farms and kennels, we decided to try it. Unbelievable. Not only did the dogs gobble it down, but within a few days their poo was bouncing. That was last July, and all is still well, and we are saving a bundle.

[Guest sweetpea]

Does anyone have experience with Solid Gold?

 

We used Solid Gold Hundenflocken for 3 years with great results.

 

And yes, I spent the greater part of the first 8-9 months of Sweetpea's retirement trying to find the right food.

 

You're doing all the right things, when in doubt, retreat to a bland diet, firm things up and start introducing slowly.

 

And if you end up with opened bags of dog food that you can't use, you might see if your adoption group can use them.

 

Good luck,

Buzzy

[Guest Greyt_dog_lover]

I wont go into the debate about quality of foods and bland diet and such. I will tell you what has worked very well for my hounds and fosters as well: Purina Pro-Plan Salmon Sensitive Stomach formula. It is in the pink/grey bag. Middle of the road price ($37 for 30lbs), but it is what works for me. Once you determine the medical issues are gone, try to find what you need. I used to subscribe to the slowly changing over diet, but honestly when I switched to the Pro-Plan, I did the transition "cold turkey" and had no issues. Two days after the switch, tootsie roll poops! I hate to admit it, but the Pro-Plan is what I will keep for a while. I do also suppliment 2-3 meals a week with raw, so there are a few other factors at work in my home.

 

Chad

[Guest Fergus]

I heard back from the vet. They found no parasites and no giardia, but the vet thinks we might want to put him on a course of Panacur just to be sure. The blood work was totally normal. The vet also is suggesting we put him on their prescription diet, which is Hills Science Diet z/d:

 

http://www.hillspet.com/products/pd-canine-zd-canine-ultra-allergen-free-dry.html

 

Hmm. I guess the Panacur makes sense. I have heard folks talking about that being a good idea because fecal tests are so unreliable. Not sure about the Science Diet, though.

[Guest afd24]

When we first got Tank we tried a number of kibbles to find one that worked, which took a while, but we finally settled on Avoderm Lamb and Rice, and when that stopped being made/switched ownership (can't remember why we could no longer get it) we switched to Holistic Selects (formerly Eagle Pack) Lamb Meal recipe and he's done great on that. I've been told that lamb is one of the easier meats to digest? - and he just doesn't do well on chicken-based or grain-free kibbles.

 

For a few weeks now I've been mixing the HS half-and-half with go! endurance to add more calories with less volume - the go! is poultry-based and didn't work well on its own, but the mix, plus a little bit of raw to dress it up, seems to be working great.

 

~Ann

[Guest jbox]

Try a bag of Iams Lamb & Rice, works like a charm! Actually almost any dog food with beet pulp in it and a fat content somewhere around 12-14% should work.

Some dogs can't handle the richer foods that make us feel better but make our dogs have diarreah which means they must feel awful. Eagle Pack Natural is also

a good one if you don't want to feed Iams.

[Batmom]

The Z/D is a hypoallergenic food -- in case of food allergy. If he does well on Z/D, over time you can slowly introduce other foods to see how he does on those and see if you can get him back to a nonprescription diet.

When I have trouble finding a food that works, I have learned the hard way to try IAMS first -- either the Adult Minichunks or Adult Lamb and Rice. For a dog who needs or can handle a little more fat, I'll try Purina ONE Sensitive Systems.

[IndyandHollyluv]

Oh boy. I feel your pain. (if you have time, see my recent post under "Purina Pro Plan - Lamb and Rice Shredded.")

 

In 2001 when I adopted my first hound, he had hookworms. Then tape worms, then round worms, then giardia. Took 4-5 months to get him squared away. Months of cleaning up milkshake squirts. Oy.

 

Discovered Purina Pro Plan Sensitive Skin & Stomach. Pretty much worked like a charm. Both of my hounds did very well on it.

 

Fast forward. I adopted a 9 yr old male last year. Has back issues and does the "walk and poo" -- and what a mess the poo has been. Not "pickupable" either!

 

In recent years, I "graduated" to more "premium" foods, I guess. (Oh aren't I just a sophisticated dog owner.) But I digress ... anyway, with the new boy I tried a 50/50 mix of TOTW Pacific Stream and Pinnacle Trout and Sweet Potato. One of those gave him perpetual gas. Also tried one of the Merrick kibbles. (Frankly, I think TOTW High Prairie worked better for my dogs than TOTW Pacific Stream.)

 

Finally in January, I revisited Pro Plan. Goodbye gas, hello decent poo. I agree with Chad - I won't go into a debate about which food is "better" as it is totally subjective and really about what agrees with your pooch.

 

Truthfully, I don't know that a prescription diet is necessary. It will simply cost you more. Vets make $$$ selling prescription food and you may be able to find something that works for your pup just as well if you read enough labels.

 

I skip wheat, corn, soy - and chicken, for the most part. And these dogs don't seem to do well with rich food. For example, years ago Nutro (it was a green bag) made my hounds throw up and have the big D. Oh that was so much fun!

 

BTW, I obtained a few samples of Solid Gold Wolf King and my hounds seem to be fine with it. I may purchase a larger bag and throw a handful in with their Pro Plan. Bison seems to agree with them.

 

Another fyi -- I do believe my hounds poop more on Pro Plan but at least it's relatively firm.

 

Good luck to you. This food issue can be such a bugger.

Edited January 30, 2011 by IndyandHollyluv

[Guest Fergus]

Another update. He stabilized very quickly on the rice & boiled hamburger diet. We did notice that he is drinking a lot less water, and I'm not sure what that's about. He normally drinks a LOT of water. Maybe the quantity of water had something to do with his intestinal issues, or with the previous kibbles? Whatever the reason, it does make me a bit nervous to see him drink so much less, especially with so much less poop coming out of him, so I have been adding more water to his food. He seems to be passing a decent amount of urine, though, so he definitely isn't dehydrated.

 

We have given 2 doses (out of 7) of the Panacur prescribed by the vet. I decided against the Science Diet food. I just could not make myself buy a kibble with so many suspect ingredients (and 2 known carcinogens).

[Hubcitypam]

Try a bag of Iams Lamb & Rice, works like a charm! Actually almost any dog food with beet pulp in it and a fat content somewhere around 12-14% should work.

Some dogs can't handle the richer foods that make us feel better but make our dogs have diarreah which means they must feel awful. Eagle Pack Natural is also

a good one if you don't want to feed Iams.

I also learned the hard way not to try to keep up with the Joneses. Poor Rex had to live through lots of high end too rich for him foods and being fecaled and wormed to death and having a standing script for flagyl.

This could be on my headstone when I'm gone -- I've posted it so many times on here --

 

After 437 hours doing research on line and in pet stores and trying multiple high dollar foods one day I got so mad I just tossed a green bag of Iams in the cart. I had fed it for years before those "in the know" told me I could do far better for my dog. Yep. And nothing came out of my dog I could scoop vs. hose into the yard. One day into the transition he started firming up and in 3 or 4 days his poops would probably bounce off the sidewalk. Never had another bout of bloody runny colitis poop after he went to Iams.

 

My long term foster Elvis' (also an iffy tummy dog) Mom marveled at how I got weight on him while she was gone -- green bag Iams. My guys have just never liked lamb.

 

When I have trouble finding a food that works, I have learned the hard way to try IAMS first -- either the Adult Minichunks or Adult Lamb and Rice. For a dog who needs or can handle a little more fat, I'll try Purina ONE Sensitive Systems.

:nod

Another update. He stabilized very quickly on the rice & boiled hamburger diet. We did notice that he is drinking a lot less water, and I'm not sure what that's about. He normally drinks a LOT of water. Maybe the quantity of water had something to do with his intestinal issues, or with the previous kibbles?

One thing to consider is that you are feeding rice that has been cooked and absorbed water as opposed to dry kibble.

Edited January 31, 2011 by Hubcitypam

[PrairieProf]

Yeah, definitely don't worry about the water. There is a lot in what he's eating, so he doesn't need to drink it. My girl is currently on canned I/D (a premade version of a bland diet) and she doesn't need to drink much and pees more than usual -- because of the moisture in the food.

[Guest Fergus]

It has been 3 weeks now since our last visit to the vet, and 2 weeks since we completed the course of Panacur. We have been feeding the boiled lean hamburger and mushy white rice, and slowly (VERY slowly) adding in kibble. We decided to go with Natural Balance duck & potato as it's pretty low fat and a limited ingredients formula, and he has been tolerating it very well with the gradual increase. Nice firm poo and much less of it. However, he has been much hungrier than usual, and any increase in food quantity causes the poo to start getting softer again. The bigger problem is we are stuck at 1 cup of kibble, and an increase in the ratio of kibble to hamburger/rice is causing the poo to get much softer and more frequent. What to do now? We are currently feeding 1 cup kibble, 3/4 cup rice, and 1/4 cup hamburger. I am worried that he is not getting enough food and enough nutrients to keep this up for weeks on end. His skin is looking pretty flaky.

[Guest Swifthounds]

Less separate water intake is the inevitable effect of feeding foods - cooked or raw - that actually contain water.

 

If you have him stabilized at rice, hamburger and a cup of kibble, keep it there for at least a few weeks to let him atabilize and let his GIT heal.

Edited February 18, 2011 by Swifthounds

[greyhead]

I really hate to say this, but he sounds a lot like our Spencer. Like Stripeyfan's Kelly, he started with hookworm. A couple years later, after a dental, he developed intestinal malabsorption, which we discovered (via the cobalamine/folate test) after months of soft, yellow poop which was getting progressively smellier. That turned out to be a case of SIBO (small intestine bacterial overgrowth) with the bacterium Clostridium perfringens, something they don't usually test for. In fact, I had to ask three times before they actually did a culture and sensitivity test on his poop instead of just a fecal for worms! All this took a year to get cleared up, after which he had IBD too. We diagnosed the IBD through ultrasound, just wanting to get a look inside there without doing surgery. He had already lost a lot of weight, after all, and was 8 years old. He also had that flaky skin, which stayed with him quite a while. And even now, after all his treatments and meds, he still has to have a precise mix of raw food, kibble, and canned food or he doesn't do well. Your speaking of the proportions of food your dog requires really rang a bell for me. And even at that, he's losing weight. So it sounds like you need to get even more serious at this point about diagnosis.

 

My advice would be not to jump around among too many main proteins right now in his food. If you wind up with IBD and have to have a "novel" protein, there won't be any novel ones if you've already tried them all. Second, get the cobalamine/folate test to see if he's absorbing the nutrients from his food. If not, he'll need sub-cutaneous B-12 shots, which you can easily give at home. Third, get a C&S on his poop to see if there are any germs. Ruling out giardia is not sufficient. Fourth, if it seems necessary, have a look-see of his stomach and intestines with an ultrasound.

 

Through all of this, please keep some proteins away from him that you can go to later for novel proteins if need be! (We got down to where all our IBD dog could eat is venison. There's also kangaroo, but the formula available is too complex -- loaded with extras -- to be workable for an IBD dog.) And don't hesitate to ask if you have any questions about what I've said.